The Great Apostasy in the Church.

[Earburner]

No, he returns well over a thousand years before the GWTJ. The GWTJ is not fire anyways. The fire is AFTER the GWTJ is over, where judgment is set and then afterwards punishment takes place.

The GWTJ is a metaphor of how all accepted or neglected God's two judgements, that are shown in John 3:18, and whether they did or did not "appear before the judgment seat of Christ", while in their mortal life.

As I have said before, I don't use Revelation to interpret the NT scriptures, I use the NT scriptures to interpret Revelation.
I also do not read or follow the whole book of Rev. chronologically.
The book of Rev. Is directly from God the Father (Rev.1:1), who in His Eternity, thinks in the past, the present and the future, all at the same time. As a result, the Revelation was given to John in that manner, who then wrote all of his visions according to how he understood what "he saw" and what "he heard", which was transposed by him, according to the things of his experiential knowledge, IN THE PERIOD of time that he lived in.

In the "now" of our time, 1,937 years later, only by God's Holy Spirit within us, and biblical history, are we able to discern and interpret God's own thoughts and meanings. All of that is done so, primarily by His Holy Spirit, through the words of the gospels and the epistles, as well as the OT prophets.
As for the OT prophets, and the words spoken through them, we must discern in which of the three manifestations of Jesus, that the words of the OT prophets were fulfilled in, are being fulilled in, or shall be fulfilled in.
For sure, none of the OT prophets knew anything about Jesus' three manifestations, which are:
1. Mortal flesh
2. By His Spirit
3. In His Immortality

Though God uses the literal words of human language in our Bibles, and are "inspired" by God's own thoughts, we should not ever think that we can interpret His thoughts and ways, by that of our own human thoughts and ways, aka "the wisdom of men".
As God says in Isa. 55:8-9, His thoughts and ways, are not our thoughts and ways.

If we must have an analogy of the "highness" of God's thoughts and ways, being conveyed to us through OUR human thoughts/words, I should say that one might go and strike up a conversation with a dog, and then record how much the dog understood our human thoughts and ways!
Better yet, now inform the dog, that his new found knowledge must be shared with those of his kind :).

EDIT: the GWTJ is a clear and truthful depiction of the parables of The Ten Virgins, and that of The Wheat and the Tares, of which is simply concluded by the words of Rom. 8:9.
The simple measuring device is: were their names written the book of life, OR NOT!!

 

[ewq1938]

The GWTJ is a metaphor

No, it isn't. It's a real event where judgment takes place at a literal throne.

As I have said before, I don't use Revelation to interpret the NT scriptures, I use the NT scriptures to interpret Revelation.

Neither is correct nor is making a metaphor out of almost everything.

I also do not read or follow the whole book of Rev. chronologically.

Not many do. It's partially chronological, and partially not.

The book of Rev. Is directly from God the Father (Rev.1:1), who in His Eternity, thinks in the past, the present and the future, all at the same time.

Humans always think they know how God thinks. Humans are fooling themselves.

 

[Earburner]

No, it isn't. It's a real event where judgment takes place at a literal throne.

The book of Revelation is a collection of individual visions, given to Jesus through the thoughts of God the Father Himself, of which is NOT defined entirely for the future.
Much of what John saw and heard took place in heaven. However, that which John saw and heard concerning the earth, is what we can now take notice of, through God's Holy Spirit guiding us in the history of the world, current events, and the futuristic plans of men.

Neither is correct nor is making a metaphor out of almost everything.

The book of Revelation is highly symbolic, being signified/coded, and is meant to be understood only by His born again saints,  the invisible church, and not that of the visible churches, which largely depend on the denominational wisdom of men.

Not many do. It's partially chronological, and partially not.

I definitely agree! Paul said it this way, which is THE clue for our understanding 1 Cor. 2
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Humans always think they know how God thinks. Humans are fooling themselves.

In the calmness of your being, do try and attempt to think in the past, present and the future all at the same time. By our linear way of thinking, it can't be done. BUT, God can and always does so!!

Therefore, how God thinks, is how He speaks in the visions of the book of Revelation, being past, present and future, all at the same time.

 

[Timtofly]

Christ returns in wrath and kills many people, mainly those who are in the military of the beast.

The sword in the mouth is the winepress of God's wrath. All who have the mark are killed in the winepress of God's wrath.

Are you saying that some never receive the mark and are allowed into the Millennium?

How after 42 months of Satan's rule will any survive without receiving the mark, or being beheaded? It is either one or the other. You seem to offer a third group who somehow are sinners but with no mark showing they are sinners.

"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

All of Adam's dead corruptible flesh left goes through the winepress of God's wrath. Only the redeemed inherit the earth.

 

[Earburner]

The sword in the mouth is the winepress of God's wrath. All who have the mark are killed in the winepress of God's wrath.

Are you saying that some never receive the mark and are allowed into the Millennium?

How after 42 months of Satan's rule will any survive without receiving the mark, or being beheaded? It is either one or the other. You seem to offer a third group who somehow are sinners but with no mark showing they are sinners.

"And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

All of Adam's dead corruptible flesh left goes through the winepress of God's wrath. Only the redeemed inherit the earth.

My point exactly! All the unsaved will take the MoB, and therefore by that act, they will have proven themselves to be the "goats" ("none of his"), who are separated from the "sheep". It is impossible for them to be gathered unto the Immortal Christ, upon His Glorious return, and then for them to enter into a supposed 1000 years of Christ's reign on earth. So says the parables of the Ten Virgins and The Wheat and the Tares.
All of such cannot inherit the earth EVER, BECAUSE they are "condemned already" for unbelief. John 3:18.
Their names were NOT FOUND written in the book of Life, which was when the "call" of God to all people began, during His Age of Grace through faith in Jesus.
2Cor.5
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

For those who did not appear before Christ's judgement seat (John 3:18), while they had breath, they are "condemned ALREADY".
The "Door" of God's Age of Grace and salvation will be SHUT on the Day of Jesus' Glorious manifestation from heaven.
Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
EDIT:
Rom. 8:8-9 is also the scenario of that situation.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God [ever].
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom. 8:8-9 DESTROYS the Premil theory of people living IN THEIR MORTAL FLESH, after Jesus appears from heaven, in all His Immortal Glory.

 

[Timtofly]

My point exactly! All the unsaved will take the MoB, and therefore by that act, they will have proven themselves to be the "goats" ("none of his"), who are separated from the "sheep". It is impossible for them to be gathered unto the Immortal Christ, upon His Glorious return, and then for them to enter into a supposed 1000 years of Christ's reign on earth. So says the parables of the Ten Virgins and The Wheat and the Tares.
All of such cannot inherit the earth EVER, BECAUSE they are condemned for unbelief. John 3:18.
Their names were NOT FOUND written in the book of Life, which was when the "call" of God to all people began, during His Age of Grace through faith in Jesus.
2Cor.5
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

For those who did not appear before Christ's judgement seat (John 3:18), while they had breath, they are "condemned ALREADY".
The "Door" of God's Age of Grace and salvation will be SHUT on the Day of Jesus' Glorious manifestation from heaven.
Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Not so fast. Amil are in worse shape, because they lump all humanity together into one melting pot and throw the physically dead into the same mess with the living.

The winepress is not even for the goats, nor the tares. The goats and tares don't even make it to the point where the mark is being received.

Those of you who lump Revelation into a single event when John went through all the trouble of dividing the book up into seperate judgments, do John a disfavorable service.

Not to mention a corruption of God's Word, His plan, and the teachings of Jesus while on earth the first time. Jesus declared in Matthew 13, He would already be on the earth sowing the seed at the same time Satan is sowing the seed. They will both be up front and the whole world will know who they are.

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

This is not a parable nor a metaphor. This is literal and a real life explanation of the parable already presented. No interpretation necessary. Jesus gave us the interpretation. Jesus has already been sitting in Jerusalem on a throne in a Temple before the sowing of the wheat and tares are taking place. The angels are all already on the earth as well. The wheat and tares is a Gentile harvest, and after the sheep and goats harvest. Both the wheat and tares are removed from the earth before the mark is issued. The wheat waiting on the sea of glass and the tares tossed into the LOF, having already been removed from the Lamb's book of life. The 7 Thunders cover the wheat and tares harvest. Matthew 13 is all we have on the events of the 7 Thunders. They take place between the 6th Trumpet and the 7th Trumpet. They are gathered between the 2nd woe and the 3rd woe. They have already been harvested prior to the winepress. The wheat and tares will not be found on earth after the 7th Trumpet sounds.

The sheep and goats is the restoration and the time of Jacob's trouble, because not all of Jacob are going to make it. Matthew 25:31 is Jesus sitting in judgment of Israel and only a remnant will be called sheep. Only a third, not even 50/50. This is the harvest of the first 6 Trumpets after the Second Coming. The goats are removed as well tossed into the LOF, and removed from the Lamb's book of life. The sheep are the first to wait on the sea of glass before the wheat. The sheep and the wheat are the firstfruits of the Millennial Kingdom. They rule over their offspring for dozens of generations.

The church of course was removed at the Second Coming and receive their rewards around the heavenly throne, and told to wait for the final harvest. The church will remain in Paradise until after the Millennium, when the New Jerusalem descends in the NHNE.

The GWT judgment at the end of the Millennium and current creation is only for the dead in sheol, death, and the sea. They answer to God and then removed from the Lamb's book of life and tossed into the LOF. Those with the mark have already been removed from the Lamb's book of life and more than likely also in the LOF. The result of the winepress of God's wrath. All these judgments and the winepress apply only to those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh, still physically alive on the earth. There are currently over 8 billion souls alive on earth and all will be dealt with and accounted for after the Second Coming. Minus the church who was raptured at the Second Coming. And they are not all just instantly vaporized, nor standing as dead outside of creation before the GWT as described in Revelation 20:11-12. In fact the GWT will be seen at the Second Coming and will be present until the end over a thousands years later. Because it has been there since creation, those in Adam's open eyed condition, are spiritually blind and cannot see it.

There is no sin in the Millennial Kingdom and thus no sinners. Disobedience results in immediate death. They will answer to God at the GWT. They cannot defend their disobedience and be rehabilitated while alive on the earth, nor will sin be allowed to enter this kingdom. Unlike Adam's disobedience, that did allow sin into creation. Isaiah 65 covers disobedience in the Millennium.

To lump all these judgments and harvests into a single entity is not rightly dividing the Word of God. The unseen kingdom of God is currently being assembled in Paradise. The firstfruits resurrection happened at the Cross. The church adds to that kingdom daily. That is not how the Millennium is described in Revelation 20. That is what Amil force onto the chapter. They force sin and the same rebellion into that chapter. There is no sin and rebellion during the Millennium. After the millennium, Satan is allowed to decieve many, but still no sin. Those deceived are consumed by fire before they can act on Satan's deception. Probably also a one way ticket to the LOF, like the mark was, a thousand years prior. Only then is creation returned back to God whole and complete as Jesus finished the task given to Him. That makes way for the NHNE. Those on the earth remain on the earth. Those in Paradise remain in the New Jerusalem.

 

[Earburner]

Not so fast. Amil are in worse shape, because they lump all humanity together into one melting pot and throw the physically dead into the same mess with the living.

I do not follow the traditional concept of Amil., but rather a hybrid view of it, as it is taught by the Holy Spirit, and not that of denominational "church-ianity".

Below, please see my edit from my post #65:
EDIT:
Rom. 8:8-9 is also the scenario of that situation.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God [ever].
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom. 8:8-9 DESTROYS the Premil theory of people living IN THEIR MORTAL FLESH, after Jesus appears from heaven, in all His Immortal Glory.

 

[ewq1938]

I do not follow the traditional concept of Amil., but rather a hybrid view of it, as it is taught by the Holy Spirit, and not that of denominational "church-ianity".

Below, please see my edit from my post #65:
EDIT:
Rom. 8:8-9 is also the scenario of that situation.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God [ever].
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom. 8:8-9 DESTROYS the Premil theory of people living IN THEIR MORTAL FLESH, after Jesus appears from heaven, in all His Immortal Glory.

No, it doesn't. It has nothing to do with flesh existing at that time which is most certainly does.

 

[Earburner]

No, it doesn't. It has nothing to do with flesh existing at that time which is most certainly does.

Upon Jesus Glorious return from heaven, in Immortality, Rom. 8:8-9 is the bare facts of mortal life, between the saved and the unsaved. At that time of His return, "The Door" of God's salvation, will have been "shut" and ended, which is understood that NO MORE shall enter into the KoG by the Gift of His Holy Spirit any longer.

WHY should God allow the unsaved, who "are none of His" have a second chance of continued existence of mortal life, since they cannot please God, or repent towards God, EVER?
The atonement by the shed blood of Christ, and the Gift of God's Holy Spirit will no longer be made available to the supposed "second chancers", that they should or could be saved. That opportunity will have been removed from them for all eternity, thus having NO HOPE of ever entering into the KoG.

Q. How is it that the Premil doctrine DOES NOT comprehend this simple truth?
A. Believe it or not, it's a form of scoffing*, whereby the extreme truth of the Lord's meaning has been diluted, so as to have no affect, thereby allowing believers to hold to a false belief (a lie), thinking that everyone will be given a second chance, AFTER the Lord has returned from heaven, in all His Glory, "in flaming fire".

*Note: 2 Peter 3:1-10
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

"Scoffers"- Strong's #1703:
ἐμπαίκτης a derider, i.e. (by implication) a false teacher
Derivation: from G1702;
KJV Usage: mocker, scoffer.

 

[Timtofly]

I do not follow the traditional concept of Amil., but rather a hybrid view of it, as it is taught by the Holy Spirit, and not that of denominational "church-ianity".

Below, please see my edit from my post #65:
EDIT:
Rom. 8:8-9 is also the scenario of that situation.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God [ever].
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom. 8:8-9 DESTROYS the Premil theory of people living IN THEIR MORTAL FLESH, after Jesus appears from heaven, in all His Immortal Glory.

They don't live in Adam's "mortal" dead corruptible flesh. Being redeemed is leaving Adam's dead flesh behind for God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Adam did have a permanent incorruptible physical body prior to disobeying God. When Adam physically died he was placed in a body of death, hence the word mortal which means death.

No one in the Millennium has Adam's dead flesh.

That is why this millennium, found in Revelation 20, has not been the last "undefined" 1993 years. Humans are still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Hybrid Amil or not, one is still wrong, because those living in the Millennium have been given the first resurrection. The first resurrection is physically leaving Adam's dead corruptible flesh and enjoying God's permanent incorruptible physical body.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

This verse does not say people keep dying for a thousand years. It says they are given life and live the entire thousand years. They died prior to this thousand years. They were resurrected prior to the thousand years. Satan was bound prior to the thousand years and bound the entire time just the same as those who lived on earth the entire time, never dying again.

 

[Timtofly]

Upon Jesus Glorious return from heaven, in Immortality, Rom. 8:8-9 is the bare facts of mortal life, between the saved and the unsaved. At that time, "The Door" of God's salvation, will have been "shut" and ended, which is understood that NO MORE shall enter into the KoG any longer.

WHY should God allow the unsaved, who "are none of His" have a second chance of continued existence of mortal life, since they cannot please God, or repent towards God, EVER! The atonement by the shed blood of Christ, and the Gift of God's Holy Spirit will no longer be made available to the supposed "second chancers", that they should or could be saved. That opportunity will have been removed from them for all eternity, thus having NO HOPE of ever entering into the KoG.

Q. How is it that the Premil doctrine DOES NOT comprehend this simple truth?
A. Believe it or not, it's a form of scoffing*, whereby the extreme truth of the Lord's meaning has been diluted, so as to have no affect, thereby allowing believers to hold to a false belief (a lie), thinking that everyone will be given a second chance, AFTER the Lord has returned from heaven, in all His Glory, "in flaming fire".

*Note: 2 Peter 3:1-10
[3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

"Scoffers"- Strong's #1703:
ἐμπαίκτης a derider, i.e. (by implication) a false teacher
Derivation: from G1702;
KJV Usage: mocker, scoffer.

Are you declaring that you literally know the state of mind of all, over 8 billion souls, currently on earth, and the vast majority have rejected God and past the point of being redeemed? How do you know this is a "Second Chance" situation without knowing the mind of every human on earth?

The church does not even inherit the earth, not even in the NHNE. The church resides in the New Jerusalem. Large enough to accommodate billions.

Seems to me it is Amil who scoff at the fact that billions will also be living on the earth. The church is unable to populate the earth. So according to you the earth will remain totally empty for eternity. There is no verse that states, the church embarks from the New Jerusalem, and lives on the earth.

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

Who are the kings of the earth, if the earth is empty? Do you not accept that the church is currently seated in heavenly places, the third heaven, Paradise? Serving God day and night in the heavenly temple? The church in Paradise is not a future promise, but a current reality. No one in Christ is waiting in death somewhere. They are alive and enjoying the fulness of creation.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."

When the book of Hebrews was written, there were already thousands if not millions of Adam's offspring as that great cloud of witnesses. Not stuck in their graves, but alive with Christ as the living, not the dead. That number has multiplied over the last 2 millennia. The church at the Second Coming will be given robes of white per Revelation 6, and told to wait until more of Adam's dead corruptible flesh are redeemed. All those on earth you claim don't have a second chance.

Just because many today teach that Adam's disobedience continues on into the Millennium does not mean Amil are correct. A remnant will be saved and will be redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They will inherit the earth and multiply and subdue it under the direct authority of Jesus as Prince of Israel as promised in Daniel 9.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

The Day of the Lord is this promise for the entire earth. All of creation will have Adam's curse lifted. God does not accept burnt offerings, not even from Himself. Amil claim Jesus hands God a burnt up creation at the Second Coming. Does Jesus need a thousand years? No. John just points out that is how long Satan is bound. John points out that is how long humans rule with Christ on the earth. If John had said it would be 250 years, would Amil still object? How is 250 years a Day of the Lord? That only sounds like a "watch in the night".

 

[Earburner]

The winepress is not even for the goats, nor the tares. The goats and tares don't even make it to the point where the mark is being received.

You are not understanding. It is the "MoB" that shall separate the goats from the sheep.
Once it has been implemented and completed, without hesitation and suddenly, God the Father will send His Son to redeem His people. KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10.

During that time, all who "are of the world" will have recieved satan's mark, and all of God's people will have had already received God's Holy Spirit within them. Rom. 8:8-9.
We however, will be culled out for death by those who think that they are doing God service. John 16:2 "....whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."

Remember, the "mark" that was put on Cain, was so that Cain should NOT be killed intentionally. Gen. 4[15] And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a "mark" upon Cain, LEST any finding him should kill him [intentionally].

Satan will use a similar process for his subtle purpose of "marking" ALL THOSE WHO DO worship ( comply with) the 10H Beast, and his Image (the UN), so that THEY WHO ARE "MARKED", should NOT be killed intentionally, whereas all who DON'T take the "mark" SHOULD BE KILLED [intentionally]!! Rev. 13:15

Way back in Genesis, God set the stage of how it would be satan himself (through the image of the Beast), who was going to bring about the separating of the goats from the sheep.

Quite the role reversal, don't you think??

 

[Earburner]

Are you declaring that you literally know the state of mind of all, over 8 billion souls, currently on earth, and the vast majority have rejected God and past the point of being redeemed? How do you know this is a "Second Chance" situation without knowing the mind of every human on earth?

The church does not even inherit the earth, not even in the NHNE. The church resides in the New Jerusalem. Large enough to accommodate billions.

Seems to me it is Amil who scoff at the fact that billions will also be living on the earth. The church is unable to populate the earth. So according to you the earth will remain totally empty for eternity. There is no verse that states, the church embarks from the New Jerusalem, and lives on the earth.

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it."

Who are the kings of the earth, if the earth is empty? Do you not accept that the church is currently seated in heavenly places, the third heaven, Paradise? Serving God day and night in the heavenly temple? The church in Paradise is not a future promise, but a current reality. No one in Christ is waiting in death somewhere. They are alive and enjoying the fulness of creation.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."

When the book of Hebrews was written, there were already thousands if not millions of Adam's offspring as that great cloud of witnesses. Not stuck in their graves, but alive with Christ as the living, not the dead. That number has multiplied over the last 2 millennia. The church at the Second Coming will be given robes of white per Revelation 6, and told to wait until more of Adam's dead corruptible flesh are redeemed. All those on earth you claim don't have a second chance.

Just because many today teach that Adam's disobedience continues on into the Millennium does not mean Amil are correct. A remnant will be saved and will be redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They will inherit the earth and multiply and subdue it under the direct authority of Jesus as Prince of Israel as promised in Daniel 9.

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

The Day of the Lord is this promise for the entire earth. All of creation will have Adam's curse lifted. God does not accept burnt offerings, not even from Himself. Amil claim Jesus hands God a burnt up creation at the Second Coming. Does Jesus need a thousand years? No. John just points out that is how long Satan is bound. John points out that is how long humans rule with Christ on the earth. If John had said it would be 250 years, would Amil still object? How is 250 years a Day of the Lord? That only sounds like a "watch in the night".

You really don't understand that the Grace of God, and His longsuffering has an end, as it was delivered to the people in Noah's day, the people of Sodom, and then the people of Israel itself, in 70 AD.

KJV Luke 17:28-30, "even THUS" shall it be when the Son shall be revealed from heaven, which is perfectly prophesied about in
KJV 2 Thes. 1:7-10, of which is a simultaneous event of destruction of the unsaved, and redemption for all the saved, ALL IN THE "SAME DAY". Luke 17:28-30.

BTW, concerning the 70 weeks, you have completely misconstrued the correct understanding.

 

[Earburner]

Just because many today teach that Adam's disobedience continues on into the Millennium does not mean Amil are correct. A remnant will be saved and will be redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. They will inherit the earth and multiply and subdue it under the direct authority of Jesus as Prince of Israel as promised in Daniel 9.

Just for starters, six statements from the KJV make void all of the "dreaming" about a false hope of a future 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, to be unsound teaching through "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5.

1. Luke 17:29- same day.
2. John 3:18- the two judgments of God.
3. Rom. 8:9- he is none of his.
4. 2 Thes. 1:7&10- the word "when".
5. Rev. 13:16- causeth ALL (the unsaved)
6. Rev. 20:15- not found written.

I dare say , if there be a remnant to start over again, on this old earth, for an additional 1000 year, please explain how ALL of them will be they who had taken "the mark of the beast.

 

[ewq1938]

Just for starters, six statements from the KJV make void all of the "dreaming" about a false hope of a future 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, to be unsound teaching through "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. 2:5.

1. Luke 17:29- same day.
2. John 3:18- the two judgments of God.
3. Rom. 8:9- he is none of his.
4. 2 Thes. 1:7&10- the word "when".
5. Rev. 13:16- causeth ALL (the unsaved)
6. Rev. 20:15- not found written.

I dare say , if there be a remnant to start over again, on this old earth, for an additional 1000 year, please explain how ALL of them will be they who had taken "the mark of the beast.

There are marked people in the Amill Millennium also so this really doesn't make any sense. Having the mark DOES NOT make someone ineligible to be in the Millennium.

Nothing in your list forbids a future Millennium either. I love the two judgments one which matches up with Premill because it is understood there are two judgments and two resurrections. You share that small part with Premill beliefs. Amill believes in one general resurrection of all and one judgment of all.

 

[Earburner]

There are marked people in the Amill Millennium also so this really doesn't make any sense. Having the mark DOES NOT make someone ineligible to be in the Millennium.

It's OK by me if you want to deny scripture.
Rev. 14
[9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fiire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(^ Please read and "compare" to 2 Thes. 1:7-9).
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Nothing in your list forbids a future Millennium either. I love the two judgments one which matches up with Premill because it is understood there are two judgments and two resurrections. You share that small part with Premill beliefs. Amill believes in one general resurrection of all and one judgment of all.

John 3:18 is 2 Cor. 5:10.

John 3
[18] He that believeth on him is NOT condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
2 Cor. 5
[10] For we must ALL [NOW] appear [stand in repentance] before the JUDGMENT seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath DONE, whether it be good* or bad**.

Note: that which is done, or not done in our bodies:
* born again of God's Holy Spirit. Rom. 8:8
** not born again of God's Holy Spirit. Rom. 8:9

 

[Earburner]

By just a simple scrolling of this page #4, back to post #61, I see tons of commentary from you and "Timtofly", but very little by way of backing it up with scripture references. For that, neither of you can accuse me of doing.

It appears to me, that neglect on your part, is a sure sign of being "filled to the brim" with the preconceived doctrines and teachings of men (1 Cor. 2:5), and not that of the teaching of the Holy Spirit within you, who "compares spiritual things with spiritual".
John 14
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you ALL things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[Davy]

If you dont see the tremendous and horrible things happening today, you dont have what the scripture says is 'eyes and ears' of what Christ says to the church in the last days..

Revelation 3:13-18
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

I thought I replied to this...

You cannot 'change' the 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 prophecy to instead mean a generality sense of falling away from the Church. You just... do not... understand Paul's Epistle.

It would also appear that you fail to recognize Paul's pointing to false brethren among them trying to 'change' the time of Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church, per 2 Thess.2. That relates directly to today's preaching of a false pre-trib rapture theory, a false timing of Christ's coming.

Nor can you try and separate... the 2 Thess.2:4 verse about the "man of sin" in connection with the future JEWISH 3rd TEMPLE that must exist to fulfill the Daniel prophecy about that coming Antichrist at the very end of this world. That "temple of God" Paul mentioned that Antichrist will exalt himself in as God, is for the END of this world, not back in history, nor is it about a pope.


Now, as for the Revelation 3 Scripture you posted above, ALL 7... of Christ's Messages to the 7 Churches in His Book of Revelation are STILL in effect for all His Churches for today, not just that last one you quoted.

 

[Earburner]

There are marked people in the Amill Millennium also so this really doesn't make any sense. Having the mark DOES NOT make someone ineligible to be in the Millennium.

My point, for whatever view, is how did the unsaved become "un-marked", so that they could live on in their corruptible flesh, in the Premil view of the kingdom of Christ on earth, for an additional 1000 years??

 

[Davy]

If you look, you will see that the old Babylonian system that came through the Greek paganism got picked up by the Romans, so it never was the true church that Christ set up. But, it was so subtle that many Christians didnt wake up and see the implications till it had crept in.

More failed prognostications of Reformers again I see.

The office of a pope, or "bishop of bishops", didn't begin until much, much later in history, and happened because of dispute between bishops of Rome and bishops in Byzantine.


The early Church at Rome was linked firstly to the early British Church, that during the days of Apostle Paul. The Apostle Paul in 2 Timothy 4:21 mentions Linus, Pudens, and Claudia, all related to the early British Church, and Pudens, a Roman, assigned to Britain.

The Apostle Paul and His British Friends - The Association of the Covenant People

You might never be able to learn the identity of Paul’s friends mentioned in his epistles depending on which Biblical commentary you refer to. In researching this, I consulted over two dozen standard Christian Bible commentaries, with greatly differing results.

www.associationcovenantpeople.org