WWJD with LGBTQ?

[St. SteVen]

The ordinances were nailed to the cross.....but not the spirit of the Law.

"the spirit of the Law" is not a biblical concept. The letter and the Spirit are in conflict.

2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

"the spirit of the Law" is not a biblical concept. The letter and the Spirit are in conflict.

2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

/

@Lizbeth
I should add the context on that one.

Assuming the Ten Commandments were "engraved in letters on stone",
The Apostle tells they were the transitory ministry of condemnation and death that has no glory now.
Other than that, totally awesome. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 NIV
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,
came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the
face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was,
8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious,
how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.
11 And if what was transitory came with glory,
how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Only if you or anyone were using it to justify tolerating grievous sins in the camp.

Tolerating?
Is that a call to intolerance, hatred, and bigotry?

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Self-righteousness, yes, examine that.

Wouldn't it be self-righteousness to think ourselves superior to those with LGTBT issues?
These people have to leave the church because of the evil way we treat them.
And there you are leading the parade, For shame.

/

 

[amigo de christo]

The ordinances were nailed to the cross.....but not the spirit of the Law. Which says to sin not. And we may read and be instructed out of the Law as to what constitutes sin. Of which sexual sins are quite prominent.

Sister you just nailed something . That is the very problem .
You see , today , many are actually using the phrase the ordinances were nailed to the cross
and yet their version of what this means , IS the SPIRIT ITSELF is nailed to the cross .
THEY preach a version of grace , of the Spirit , of the work and working of GOD
as a means to accept to allow and even to honor the WORKS OF THE FLESH .
AND YET IS IT NOT THE WORKS of the flesh that is to be CRUCIFIED . THEY doing thing backwards and seeing things wrong .
Today their version is the SPIRIT has come to set us free and to give us liberty TO SIN .
They use liberty as an occasion it was never intended to be for .........THEY USE LIBERTY AS A MEANS TO SERVE THE FLESH .
PAUL warned about that .
HE said YE have been given liberty , ONLY DONT USE LIBERTY as a means to , an occasion to , SERVE THE FLESH .
But they do .
They use love the same way . SEE the true love of GOD would have fullilled the righteousness of the law .
Love wont steal , love wont do evil towards GOD or man . But their love DOES EVIL towards GOD and man .
IT HONORS NOT GOD and thus it will destroy both them and all who serve this wordly version of love which trangresses
and dont fullfill . Satan is very clearly a deciever . HE KNOWS how to quoate scrips and he will use the scrips
to twist them to serve HIS own agenda and mans own fleshly lusts desires .
We got us an enemy in the house that truly has taken many within even the christain realm
under the guise it is love , its light , its of GOD . WHEN ITS NONE of the above .
IT hollers a truth saying GOD IS LOVE but uses that phrase to accept and honor SIN
and to accuse the brethren who do correct error as being haters . SATAN knows how to decieve .
But greater is HE who is within the lambs . JESUS keeps us safe . Let us stay well dug in the bible too dear sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

Only if you or anyone were using it to justify tolerating grievous sins in the camp.

When you read his response to this you will see the confusion within this poor mans soul .
I knew exactly what you meant . Yet he twists yourwords in order to again make you seem to be the promoter of hate .
You probably already know what i am about to type next .
THEY have been taught a wicked version of what love is. You see to them to even point out the error
of ones sins , IS NOT LOVE , its not tolerance , its not loving . GUESS what theywould have called JESUS who did so
or the apostels who did so . THE same things they call those who are NOW OF HIS SPIRIT , haters and jugmental
and folks who know not CHRIST , not GOD , not love . YES SISTER they would call JESUS THIS TODAY
When the church sits under WORDLY council , expect the church to falll for a ruse . AND IT DID TOO .
Many today who holler this love love love , TRULY KNOW NEITHER LOVE NOR GOD and would pick up stones
to cast at JESUS HIMSELF if he were to walk in their churches today or even on the streets . SIN has taken
and will take all captive to SIN and only greater sin . Slaves to the flesh have one master and he has long
been at work , even in the garden . Slaves to CHRIST , WELL CHRIST IS THEIR MASTER .

 

[Saint of Light]

Christians tend to treat LGBTQ as if it is a singular thing. It's not.
It's a very complex subject that the church has, for the most part, swept under the rug.

Those who have stepped up to be inclusive have taken the heat for it.
And there is even a broad spectrum of how inclusion can play out.
LGBTQ is not a B+W issue. There is a whole spectrum of gray to be considered.

I have known for some time that this is an issue that the church needs to come to grips with.
My own wake-up call came when I went back to college in my 50's to study interior design.
Among my classmates I discovered gay Christians. Say what? How could this be?
For this straight, white, married, Protestant, evangelical male, it was quite a shock.

In my interior design class, I estimated that 10% were males. The rest were female.
Of those males I estimated that half were probably gay. So, an estimated 5% gay students.
My instructors even cautioned me that if I worked as an interior designer,
I would likely be accused of being gay.

So, I had to ask myself, WWJD with LGBTQ?

Because of another topic on the forum that has a title that asks the WRONG question,
I wanted to launch a topic that would ask the right questions.

I have done my homework as part of that other topic.
And I am still making some discoveries about the subject.
Here are a few.

- There is a 40% suicide rate among gays, which is driven by societal rejection. (genocide)
- Parental testimony shows children indicating a transgender preference as early as 3 to 5 years old.
- 1 in 1,500 children are born intersex, meaning either both, or ambiguous genitalia.
- Birth sex is determined by what is between your legs; gender identity is determined by what is between your ears.
- Christian gays that come out are at risk of losing, family, friends, church, employment, housing...
- Many gay couples are monogamous, and great contributors to our society.

There are other factors as well. This is a place to discuss them. Thanks.

WWJD with LGBTQ?



/ @TinMan @BarneyFife @Chadrho @Hillsage

There are anti-gay scriptures in the Old Testament. But that is exactly what it is: Old. We live in a new age where Jesus brought the Gospel to humanity and replaced the Law with love, compassion, and mercy to all sinners. God’s love is not off limits to LGBT people; they deserve to be saved just as much as anyone else.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic available. (shameless self-promotion)

If our interpretation of scripture sidesteps common sense, did we get it right?

/

 

[Lizbeth]

There are anti-gay scriptures in the Old Testament. But that is exactly what it is: Old. We live in a new age where Jesus brought the Gospel to humanity and replaced the Law with love, compassion, and mercy to all sinners. God’s love is not off limits to LGBT people; they deserve to be saved just as much as anyone else.

Oh dear, this is like an epidemic. You need to learn the scriptures better than that friend, otherwise you are just prey for the lion's teeth. The new testament has a lot to say about sin, including homosexual sin.

LGBT people may come to Christ and be saved, of course, nobody is saying otherwise - we hope and pray that they will. But then having been saved, they, like everyone else, need to obey the gospel and the Holy Spirit which teaches and leads us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Otherwise risk becoming a castaway and disqualified, as the new testament also talks about.

This is of the utmost urgency....if anyone knows Christ they need to LEARN the scriptures and simply RECEIVE what the bible simply and clearly teaches or die! Simple as that. The devil isn't fooling around and this is not a drill. The spirit of political correctness is not of God!

 

[amigo de christo]

There are anti-gay scriptures in the Old Testament. But that is exactly what it is: Old. We live in a new age where Jesus brought the Gospel to humanity and replaced the Law with love, compassion, and mercy to all sinners. God’s love is not off limits to LGBT people; they deserve to be saved just as much as anyone else.

Not one soul is DESERVING TO BE SAVED . Not me or anyone .
We gotta preach the gospel , not satans social all inclusive sin accepting many path lie from hell they call a gospel .
GOD NEVER HAS BEEN OR WILL BE , JESUS NEVER HAS BEEN OR WILL BE , THE MINSTIR OF SIN . SIN must be corrected
asap fast within the church . NO RAINBOW HOLDING fake love gonna save squat , IT WILL DAMN them all
as well as those who supported it .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh dear, this is like an epidemic. You need to learn the scriptures better than that friend, otherwise you are just prey for the lion's teeth. The new testament has a lot to say about sin, including homosexual sin.

LGBT people may come to Christ and be saved, of course, nobody is saying otherwise - we hope and pray that they will. But then having been saved, they, like everyone else, need to obey the gospel and the Holy Spirit which teaches and leads us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Otherwise risk becoming a castaway and disqualified, as the new testament also talks about.

This is of the utmost urgency....if anyone knows Christ they need to LEARN the scriptures and simply RECEIVE what the bible simply and clearly teaches or die! Simple as that. The devil isn't fooling around and this is not a drill. The spirit of political correctness is not of God!

Folks thought ol amigo was nuts for a long time . But i did try and tell us what the heck has long been going on in our churches .
YOU KNOW that i have been warning for year sister . Way back when , i was warning us exactly where this seeker friendly mad house
was leading folks right too . A FALSE GRACE < FALSE LOVE , SIN ACCEPTING , other religoin accepting
LIE from hades. By grace i warned for years . OH YES THIS IS AN EPIDEMIC ALL RIGHT . AND ITS ONLY GONNA GET WORSE
and when i say worse i mean MUCH WORSE andi mean VERY FAST TOO . SIE UNITED LOVEY DO RELGIONS AND WORLD
will soon come to the point ITS JUST TIME TO RID THEIR MOTHER EARTH OF The haters .

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh dear, this is like an epidemic. You need to learn the scriptures better than that friend, otherwise you are just prey for the lion's teeth. The new testament has a lot to say about sin, including homosexual sin.

LGBT people may come to Christ and be saved, of course, nobody is saying otherwise - we hope and pray that they will. But then having been saved, they, like everyone else, need to obey the gospel and the Holy Spirit which teaches and leads us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Otherwise risk becoming a castaway and disqualified, as the new testament also talks about.

This is of the utmost urgency....if anyone knows Christ they need to LEARN the scriptures and simply RECEIVE what the bible simply and clearly teaches or die! Simple as that. The devil isn't fooling around and this is not a drill. The spirit of political correctness is not of God!

And NOW ya know why ol aimgo has , for years and years had such an dire sense of urgency to get this mindset corrected .
ITS A FOUL EPIDEMIC and the longer the church bought the correct not judge not motto , THE WORSE THEY KEPT and DO KEEP
and WILL KEEP GETTING . ITS OF DIRE DIRE DIRE UPMOST URGENCY FOLKS DO EXACTLY What YOU JUST SAID .
I been saying it for years and for years . SISTER its GONNA MUSHROOM UP VERY FAST GETTING MUCH WORSE .
We WONT BE LOVED NOR TOLERATED and we had better be prepared to LOSE ALL. CAUSE LAWS AND TIMES
will only continue to GET WORSE . THEY COMING for the lambs sister . He who desired to be as GOD
has twisted their hearts into a tiny raisin which has absolutely zero love for the TRUTH OF GOD . IT WILL GET WORSE .
I do not say this to cause us fear but to just remind us . THEY WILL RISE as one mind and one heart
under one love they think is of GOD but its of SATAN and under sie solution the lambs will be hunted , persecuted
and many killed . Even now its at the door .

 

[St. SteVen]

Oh dear, this is like an epidemic. ...

I'm anti-VAX. - LOL

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fthat-thing-goin-round-special-thanks-to-andrea-rk-and-aaron-g

This is of the utmost urgency....if anyone knows Christ they need to LEARN the scriptures and simply RECEIVE what the bible simply and clearly teaches or die! Simple as that. The devil isn't fooling around and this is not a drill. The spirit of political correctness is not of God!

Or die? Oh, my. - LOL
Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

cc: @Saint of Light

/

 

[Saint of Light]

Oh dear, this is like an epidemic. You need to learn the scriptures better than that friend, otherwise you are just prey for the lion's teeth. The new testament has a lot to say about sin, including homosexual sin.

LGBT people may come to Christ and be saved, of course, nobody is saying otherwise - we hope and pray that they will. But then having been saved, they, like everyone else, need to obey the gospel and the Holy Spirit which teaches and leads us to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Otherwise risk becoming a castaway and disqualified, as the new testament also talks about.

This is of the utmost urgency....if anyone knows Christ they need to LEARN the scriptures and simply RECEIVE what the bible simply and clearly teaches or die! Simple as that. The devil isn't fooling around and this is not a drill. The spirit of political correctness is not of God!

Can you give me one reason why being LGBT is “wrong” other than the fact that OT scripture says so? I mean an actual argument. I’m genuinely interested to hear why you think it’s such a crime against humanity, since it isn’t.

 

[Lizbeth]

Can you give me one reason why being LGBT is “wrong” other than the fact that OT scripture says so? I mean an actual argument. I’m genuinely interested to hear why you think it’s such a crime against humanity, since it isn’t.

Again we better learn what the scriptures teach....they are speaking truth. If you are a follower of Christ you should know there are unseen realms and activity out there and that is why we are not to judge by outward appearances, by what our natural eyes can see.....we need to discern by the Spirit what is going on that our natural eyes can't see. The devil is a DECEIVER who only comes to steal, kill and destroy....he BLINDS people to the truth. Whereas the Spirit of Christ gives us eyes of faith to SEE with.

Bible says we are not wrestling against flesh and blood but against powers and principalities in high places. Homosexuality is rebellion to the core, a crime against God, and involves demons, the kingdom of darkness....it is unclean. The demonic realm is like a filthy cesspool and the demons are like harmful disease ridden bacteria that do kill people. "The soul that sins shall die", and societies and nations that embrace sin will reap judgments too....the devil and those demons are leading souls to perdition, to perish. There are severe consequences for sins of this nature....rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. If you have any love for people, sinners of any stripe, you will want them to be saved and walk free of their sins and be blessed, not to continue in bondage to their sins, heading for judgment.

Severe consequences for sins of the witchcraft and sorcery type too...we have only to look at certain countries, especially in places in Africa and Haiti, etc, where that is rife to see the suffering and mess it incurs (judgments). God's word and ways are for our GOOD, not our harm......if we obey Him we will avoid the harm that comes with the consequences of sin. Where the gospel starts to gain a foothold and there is less sin, those places begin to reap blessings and light instead of the former curses and darkness and there are a couple of places in Africa where we have seen this too. Our western society that once was more blessed through the gospel is going backwards......just look at what is happening now, rampant addictions, mental illness, shooting rampages, natural disasters, divided nations. Don't think famines and plagues and horrors of war can't happen here too if we don't wake up and turn back to the Lord and His RIGHTEOUS ways.

We are in a spiritual war, no mistake, two kingdoms always clashing......and right now the enemy and his kingdom of darkness are having the upper hand. The church needs to wake up and stop being deceived and buying the lies of the enemy that is duping them. Our weapons are not carnal but mighty in God to the tearing down of enemy strongholds.....the sword of the Lord is His WORD. Better arm yourself or perish!

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm anti-VAX. - LOL

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fthat-thing-goin-round-special-thanks-to-andrea-rk-and-aaron-g

Or die? Oh, my. - LOL
Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

cc: @Saint of Light

/

Spiritual death, perdition. To perish in the lake of fire, the second death.....from which there is no coming back, it is eternal. Hell, if you will. Nothing funny about it. God doesn't say to fear Him for no reason. Are you sitting in the seat of mockers? There were mockers in Noah's day too.

The scriptures are able to make one wise unto SALVATION. You do know that salvation is the opposite of death don't you? It is salvation from death, from perishing in the lake of fire. Our God is a consuming fire......better learn to FEAR Him, it is the beginning of wisdom, which some here are clearly in need of. WAKE UP out of your slumber.

 

[Lizbeth]

Folks thought ol amigo was nuts for a long time . But i did try and tell us what the heck has long been going on in our churches .
YOU KNOW that i have been warning for year sister . Way back when , i was warning us exactly where this seeker friendly mad house
was leading folks right too . A FALSE GRACE < FALSE LOVE , SIN ACCEPTING , other religoin accepting
LIE from hades. By grace i warned for years . OH YES THIS IS AN EPIDEMIC ALL RIGHT . AND ITS ONLY GONNA GET WORSE
and when i say worse i mean MUCH WORSE andi mean VERY FAST TOO . SIE UNITED LOVEY DO RELGIONS AND WORLD
will soon come to the point ITS JUST TIME TO RID THEIR MOTHER EARTH OF The haters .

Amen brother, I do know and agree. And judgment is coming for those stiff necked who are refusing correction....already happening. This is why the Lord led so many of His flock to come out of many churches in the last twenty years or so. Because many of the churches are being given over to deception. They have been tested and found wanting, God is always testing and pruning in His vineyard. Sin and lies in the camp leads to consequences, it is no joke, it needs to be taken seriously and purged from the camp, not "tolerated", otherwise if it isn't, expect the judgments...expect to be deceived and taken captive by the world and led captive on the broad way to destruction. We can learn from that whole story of Phinehas the son of Eleazar in Numbers, only our weapon is the sword of the Lord, His word.

 

[Lizbeth]

Wouldn't it be self-righteousness to think ourselves superior to those with LGTBT issues?
These people have to leave the church because of the evil way we treat them.
And there you are leading the parade, For shame.

/

Yes, that is always the accusation that is meant to shut up those who would speak the truth. Again, nobody here is advocating mistreating anyone. But, it is good that you acknowledge that that these are "issues" that need to be dealt with. And instruction in the word of God is job #1 for any new believer, regardless of the type of sins they are coming out of. Not to condemn, but to wash with the washing of the water of the word.....washing one another's feet with it. God's word is cleansing and gives us strength against our sins....solid ground to walk on, and to know that yes this IS the way, walk ye in it.

 

[St. SteVen]

There were mockers in Noah's day too.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?
That is a myth (lie) taught to children.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

The scriptures are able to make one wise unto SALVATION. You do know that salvation is the opposite of death don't you? It is salvation from death, from perishing in the lake of fire. Our God is a consuming fire......better learn to FEAR Him, it is the beginning of wisdom, which some here are clearly in need of. WAKE UP out of your slumber.

So, fear is the best motivation for salvation?
I call that spiritual extortion. Believe or burn.

The "free gift" of eternal life?
Free unless you refuse it. Then it's hell to pay. Right?
Suddenly becomes very expensive.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

/ @Saint of Light