Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[Scott Downey]

Some here are justifying others in their sin and arrogance against God. Don't be like them. And don't approve of things God has spoken against.

 

[RLT63]

Not what I asked and you know it.

I’m asking you

 

[RLT63]

How did 8 year old Gabriel dehumanize himself?
I don't expect you to be honest enough to actually answer, you have refused to say just what he did that was evil or what he did to provoke his parents into torturing and killing him.

If a couple murdered their son hopefully they are in prison awaiting the death penalty.

 

[Behold]

What experiment?

You need examples?

Ok, how about American pop music. "stars".

Katy Perry... "I kissed a girl and i liked it'... yet, she's not Gay.. she's "fluid"..... having been married.

Have you ever heard of Miley Cyrus? She was married... and now she's "Gay" or was., depending on what day of the week it is,...

That is "fluid sexuality"... or "what i chose today", ... which is Homosexuality, as its a choice.

So, your issue, one of them @TinMan , is that you have been fed the "Gay agenda", and you're lost in it.

We're not.
We can SEE through the deception.

If nonsense means rejecting your lies about this then yeah it must be nonsense.

Ive not lied, and you can't defend your "Gay Cheerleading", .. so, all you have left is to send your false innuendo in my direction.
And you'll do it again, as that is how people like you, behave, on Christian Forums.

You are FOR Abortion and Gay Rights.

Yes we know why you are here.

Sorry i won't lie about LGBT people, or anyone else for that matter.

Yet, you just lied about me.

Again since you aren't lying abut or promoting hatred of heterosexuals who can't reproduce it just shows how fake your position is

God produced the Proof in the Garden of Eden.

His POV is the same, forever.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No it isn't because someone can be homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual without ever engaged in sexual behavior.

No, in this discussion, you have defined "orientation" as a person's innate attraction. The topic of this discussion is the immorality of homosexual behavior. The topic question, "Homosexuality: right or wrong?" seeks information concerning a practice or an action, approaching the overall issue of man's responsibility from a moral/theological perspective. The responsibility of man is to love God and obey his commands, values, and will. Thus, to restate the question, does a man violate God's will if he has sex with another man? Does a woman violate God's will if she has sex with another woman? I affirm and maintain that such behavior is against God's will for sexuality and human fulfillment and flourishing.

You are gay, straight or bi independently of any action or activity you engage in.

Again, you are talking about "orientation", which is an empty and useless distinction apart from the sexual act.

Yet there are vilified left in right in this thread,

I can't speak for the entire thread. But I have never vilified anyone. If I say that a particular sexual act violates God's will, I have said nothing concerning any particular person or group of people. My comments assume freedom to choose.

 

[CadyandZoe]

and that is what happened a couple time.
One in the infamous study by Robert Spitzer that some homophobes still try to use. Spitzer wanted to study people who have changed their orientation but after two years of searching he couldn't find any. So he went to various ex-gay ministries who provided him with 80 people who had changed. but in the course of interviewing them Spitzer found that 69 of them had not actually changed their orientation and were lying due to family and social pressures. Still he went ahead and published using the 11 who were happy to say they were homosexuals and are not heterosexuals. The study failed it's peer review for obvious reasons. Specifically the 11 men who were claiming to have changed their orientation were employees of ex-gay ministers and their job depended on them making that claim. Years later A graduate student of Spitzer worked on a study where they contacted those 11 men, they could find 10 of them. Every one admitted that they had never been homosexual in the first place. Shortly there after Spitzer publicly apologized for the harm the misuse of his study had done.

another was a recent "study" by Stanton L. Jones and Mark A. Yarhouse of Regent University, a school known for its anti-gay positions. The study also relied on an ex-gay ministry Exodus International. Exodus provided 61 individuals who were "successful" in changing their orientation. (it is somewhat telling that even though the organization has been in business since 1974 they can still only point to 61 'successes') and much like the Spitzer study most (47) of the "successful" people had not changed at all. Most of the subjects were children when started by their families in Exodus. Specifically of the 14 claiming to have changed all are still minors and all of them were only interviewed in the presence of their parents.

Are you saying that scientific research in this area involves interviews? How is this valid?

 

[St. SteVen]

Some here are justifying others in their sin and arrogance against God.

I agree. Stop being so hypocritical!

/

 

[TinMan]

If a couple murdered their son hopefully they are in prison awaiting the death penalty.

According to Wrangler he was engaging in evil and provoked them into torturing and murdering him. Wrangler won't say just what the boy did though.

 

[TinMan]

You need examples?

Ok, how about American pop music. "stars".

Katy Perry... "I kissed a girl and i liked it'... yet, she's not Gay.. she's "fluid"..... having been married.

Have you ever heard of Miley Cyrus? She was married... and now she's "Gay" or was., depending on what day of the week it is,...

That is "fluid sexuality"... or "what i chose today", ... which is Homosexuality, as its a choice.

no matter how many times you tell the lie it won't ever be a choice

So, your issue, one of them @TinMan , is that you have been fed the "Gay agenda", and you're lost in it.

What is this gay agenda?

We're not.
We can SEE through the deception.

yet you still try to deceive

Ive not lied, and you can't defend your "Gay Cheerleading", .. so, all you have left is to send your false innuendo in my direction.
And you'll do it again, as that is how people like you, behave, on Christian Forums.

you lie about LGBT people all the time

You are FOR Abortion and Gay Rights.

I'm for equal rights for everyone...I guess that is what is really offensive to you

Yes we know why you are here.

all the wonderful people?

Yet, you just lied about me.




God produced the Proof in the Garden of Eden.

His POV is the same, forever.

Is that why its still a sin to eat shellfish?

 

[TinMan]

No, in this discussion, you have defined "orientation" as a person's innate attraction.

It's what it is in ANY discussion.

People are their orientation without ever engaging in any sexual behavior. You are the same orientation as when you were a virgin, just like everyone else

The topic of this discussion is the immorality of homosexual behavior. The topic question, "Homosexuality: right or wrong?" seeks information concerning a practice or an action, approaching the overall issue of man's responsibility from a moral/theological perspective. The responsibility of man is to love God and obey his commands, values, and will. Thus, to restate the question, does a man violate God's will if he has sex with another man? Does a woman violate God's will if she has sex with another woman? I affirm and maintain that such behavior is against God's will for sexuality and human fulfillment and flourishing.

Again, you are talking about "orientation", which is an empty and useless distinction apart from the sexual act.

I can't speak for the entire thread. But I have never vilified anyone. If I say that a particular sexual act violates God's will, I have said nothing concerning any particular person or group of people. My comments assume freedom to choose.

Never vilified anyone? Share with us again just why some LGBT individuals have substance abuse issues.

 

[St. SteVen]

Is that why its still a sin to eat shellfish?

You mispronounced "selfish". - LOL

/

 

[TinMan]

Are you saying that scientific research in this area involves interviews? How is this valid?

In social science, interviews are a method of data collection that involves two or more people exchanging information through a series of questions and answers. The questions are designed by a researcher to elicit information from interview participants on a specific topic or set of topics. Ref Scientific Inquiry

Are you going to be dishonest enough to claim it's not valid?

 

[Behold]

Is that why its still a sin to eat shellfish.

First of all, the shellfish, is OT, under the law.
So, you are stuck in the wrong covenant, as well as in the Gay agenda

The NT said....>

1 Timothy 4:4-5 For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified [set apart, dedicated to God] by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is this gay agenda?

Thank you for asking me again., and as you teach the gay agenda, @TinMan im not certain why you want me to post it again for you... but../

Here you go.

The GAY Agenda

1.) "“The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights. To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference""""

2. ) “The Overhauling of Straight America” as the “bible” of the homosexual agenda.'"


3. ) “almost any behavior begins to look normal if you are exposed to enough of it . . . The way to benumb raw sensitivities about homosexuality is to have a lot of people talk a great deal about the subject in a neutral or supportive way . . . Constant talk builds the impression that public opinion is at least divided on the subject, and that a sizable segment accepts or even practices homosexuality.
“And when we say talk about homosexuality, we mean just that. In the early stages of any campaign to reach straight America, the masses should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex should be downplayed .""

4.) '""When we are exposed to anything repeatedly, it becomes routine and normal. What initially might shock someone eventually can become acceptable. And acceptability is the ultimate goal. What at one time was highly offensive to the vast majority of Americans is now no big deal. They’ve been lulled into complacency."""

5.) """Where we talk is important, The average American household watches over seven hours of TV daily. Those hours open up a gateway into the private world of straights, through which a Trojan horse might be passed . . .
“So far, gay Hollywood has provided our best covert weapon in the battle to desensitize the mainstream. Bit by bit over the past ten years, gay characters and gay themes have been introduced into TV programs and films . . . On the whole the impact has been encouraging.”

6.)'"When conservative churches condemn gays, there are only two things we can do to confound the homophobia of true believers. First, we can use talk to muddy the moral waters. This means publicizing support for gays by more moderate churches,"""

7.) “In any campaign to win over the public, gays must be cast as victims in need of protection,”

8.) "If gays are presented, instead, as a strong and prideful tribe promoting a rigidly nonconformist and deviant lifestyle, they are more likely to be seen as a public menace that justifies resistance and oppression. For that reason, we must forego the temptation to strut our ‘gay pride’ publicly when it conflicts with the = """Gay Victim image,”
“It almost goes without saying that groups on the farthest margin of acceptability such as NAMBLA [the North American Man-Boy Love Association,} which as its name suggests promotes adult-child homosexual sex] must play no part at all in such a campaign: suspected child-molesters will never look like victims . . .

9.) “At a later stage of the media campaign for gay rights . . . it will be time to get tough with remaining opponents. To be blunt, they must be vilified . . . Our goal here is twofold. First, we seek to replace the mainstream’s homophobia with shame and guilt. Second, we intend to make the anti-gays look so nasty that average Americans will want to dissociate themselves from such types”

10.) ""You say we all lead lives you don’t respect. But you’re just frightened. You think that we’ll corrupt your kids if our agenda goes unchecked. Funny, just this once, you’re correct.”
“We’ll convert your children – happens bit by bit, quietly and subtly and you will barely notice it…”
“Just like you’re worried, they’ll change their group of friends, you won’t approve of where they go at night. And you’ll be disgusted when they start finding things online that you kept far from their sight…”

 

[Wrangler]

Bi sexuality IS an orientation

It's not a behavior

I am a little surprised you are doing another lap on this false track. No one cares how you feel (orientation). Where you put your genitals is a choice and choice is the proper domain of morality.

 

[Wrangler]

it's inborn and unchanging like skin color

That's not true. There is such a thing as recovering homosexuals.

 

[Wrangler]

Parents of transgender children report that the child made a clear choice between the ages of 3 to 5 years old.

You believe this?

 

[Wrangler]

No it isn't because someone can be homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual without ever engaged in sexual behavior.

Your definition is invalid. There is no such thing as "being" an action.

 

[Wrangler]

How did 8 year old Gabriel dehumanize himself?

Again, you do know that homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible, right?

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's what it is in ANY discussion.

People are their orientation without ever engaging in any sexual behavior.

So you say. However, orientation is a meaningless, empty concept without sexual activity. A man can claim to be Napoleon, but if he isn't engaged in conquering much of Europe, who cares? Understand?

Consider the Apostle James who argued that faith without works is dead, meaning inactive. A man might claim to have faith but apart from actions that are indicative of faith, claims of faith are empty claims. Likewise, someone may claim to be oriented toward male, female or both, but unless they commit themselves through action, the point is moot, i.e. debatable.

But as I say, this debate is not concerned with ontology or metaphysics. The question on the table is concerned with actions that God approves or doesn't approve. I understand that you want to talk about individuals who are sexually or romantically attracted exclusively to people of one's own sex or gender. I get that. But that isn't the topic of discussion. The talk is about putting such attractions into practice. It's not a question of whether someone is attracted to their own sex; The talk is about the thing done to satisfy the desire or need.

 

[CadyandZoe]

In social science, interviews are a method of data collection that involves two or more people exchanging information through a series of questions and answers. The questions are designed by a researcher to elicit information from interview participants on a specific topic or set of topics. Ref Scientific Inquiry

Are you going to be dishonest enough to claim it's not valid?

It's not valid concerning the question of innate orientation for obvious reasons. Contrary to your opinion, a person's sexual orientation changes several times as they mature to adulthood because the child is learning about his or her world. As sympathy and empathy develop, the child engages in role-playing activities in search of what it must be like from another person's point of view. If the child is allowed to mature to adulthood, the child will be attracted to the opposite sex in preparation for the process of reproduction.

In some children, due to a traumatic experience or some other significant event, the child gets "stuck" and doesn't advance to the next stage of development. Individuals are not born into same-sex orientation, they are stuck there, unable to fully mature.