About the modern Jew - potentially a major deception and distraction for believers

[Keraz]

The main error that most make, is in assigning the prophesies for Israel to the Jewish State of Israel. The Bible prophets always carefully separate Judah and Israel and they remain separate today. Judah, the Jewish people, who wrongly call their country Israel, have many specific prophesies of how God will deal with them in these end times.
But actual Israel is different, one of the best examples of what the Lord will do to each is in Amos 2:4-5; for Judah and Amos 2:6-16 for Israel. Also Jeremiah 19:10-12 and Jeremiah 18:6; Judah smashed beyond repair and Israel remoulded.

So the question is: Who is the true Israel? We know the answer; it is every born again Christian, the Lord's chosen people, 1 Peter 2:9-10, and those bought by His blood, Revelation 5:9-10.
THEY are the faithful Israel of God, Galatians 6:14-16, His Overcomers, literally: true Israelites.
With that truth in mind, the prophesies make sense and we can know our destiny; how the Lord promises to save and Bless all who put their trust in Him. Jeremiah 17:7-8

The idea that the Jewish people still have God's favour, is sadly mistaken. They have had nearly 2000 years of God's grace for them to accept their Messiah. This has not and will not happen, as Jesus knew they wouldn't. That is why He said that He would save the lost House of Israel. the other ten tribes, still in exile, who have largely accepted Jesus and are now His Overcomers, the genuine Israelites of God.


The true Israelites of God are every faithful Christian, from every tribe, race, nation and language. That is how it has been from the beginning; the congregation, the ekkelasia; the church of faithful believers, from Abel, to Elijah's 7000, to the few survivors after 40 years in the desert, to the Pilgrim Fathers, to today’s genuine Christian believers.

Do you pray for Israel? For the people currently occupying the holy Land? Those people who are 50% atheists, who practise Judaism and other religion's far removed from Biblical truths, who approve of the LGBT lifestyle, those proud, arrogant Israeli’s whose nation was founded on communistic principals?

Are they God’s people? No; 1 Peter 2:9-10 and all the NT teaching proves they are not.

We are specifically told to NOT pray for the Jews. Jeremiah 11:14, 14:10-12

 

[covenantee]

Of course, Jesus is the God of Israel! Israel over 2500 times.

Jesus is the Savior of all who believe on Him.

God slew unbelieving Israelites by the thousands. Numbers 25:9

 

[Jack]

Jesus is the Savior of all who believe on Him.

And Israel will believe in Him.

God slew unbelieving Israelites by the thousands. Numbers 25:9

Were you ever unsaved? Why are you attacking Israel and bringing the curse of God on yourself?

 

[BlessedPeace]

You mean Israel, a TINY dot on the map that has the world's attention, that FILLS the Christian Bible, as the Bible warned us about?

God bless Israel!

Amen. If it was ever doubted there are racists here, the evidence is mounting so to erase all doubt. Pray for them.

 

[covenantee]

And Israel will believe in Him.

Multitudes of Israel have believed on Him since Calvary.

Were you ever unsaved? Why are you attacking Israel and bringing the curse of God on yourself?

Why are you ignoring the reason that God punished Israel?

 

[covenantee]

Amen. If it was ever doubted there are racists here, the evidence is mounting so to erase all doubt. Pray for them.

Dispensationalism is pharisaic talmudic racism.

It was born in racism, and it depends upon the preservation and perpetuation of racism for its existence and survival.

It demands the re-erection of the racial wall of partition between Jew and Gentile that Christ broke down at Calvary. Ephesians 2:14

Pray for those enslaved by it.

 

[Jack]

Multitudes of Israel have believed on Him since Calvary.

Why are you ignoring the reason that God punished Israel?

Tell us that "reason". Do you know where Jesus will return? It's called Israel.

 

[covenantee]

Tell us that "reason". Do you know where Jesus will return? It's called Israel.

Unbelief.

Do you know for whom Jesus will return? It's called His Church.

 

[Jack]

Unbelief.

Do you know for whom Jesus will return? It's called His Church.

Do you know where Jesus will return? It's called Israel! Do you know why Israel is back to stay?

 

[Brakelite]

Who is true Israel? Is it the physical nation fighting for its existence in the Middle East, or is it the spiritual entity we know as the church. And if its the church, which one?

The name "Israel" first appears in the Bible in Genesis 32:28 After a night of wrestling with the heavenly visitor (who I personally believe to be Christ Himself) Jacob prevails in his efforts and his name is changed from Jacob, the deceiver or supplanter, to Israel, meaning he will rule. Jacob has prevailed with God and overcome.

At the time of this event, Jacob was reluctant to face Esau after 20 years of exile and was quite simply terrified of him. Terrified, but only wanting to go him good. His former deception of his father and claim to be Esau was now playing on his conscience and he desired God's blessing and forgiveness before proceeding. So the 'Angel' asks Jacob his name, to which he truthfully replies 'my name is Jacob, the deceived and liar'.. In this he was confessing his guilt, and God then knew he was a changed man, so gave him a new name that celebrated so to speak his victory over sin, self and his night of wrestling in prayer, the 'Angel' saying "for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."
Israel, as a name therefore represents spiritual victory over sin.

This is significant as it tells us God's purpose for His people. That is, to live in victory over sin, to show forth God's true character to the world.

In Exod 4:22,23 Moses is instructed on how he is to speak to Pharaoh in order that Israel's descendants may be freed from slavery. God says to Moses "and thou shalt say unto Pharaoh 'Thus saith the Lord,Israel is My son, my firstborn and I say unto thee let My son go to serve me..."
This is the first time Israel is used in a corporate sense for the entire nation. Before it applied only to an individual, but here we see it being applied to his descendants. First to a victorious man, then to his people.
Did Israel live up to that name? What was God trying to accomplish in establishing Israel in the first place? Was it not that He would have a people to represent Him on the earth? Before God had His champions, but all failed. Sin interposed and no longer was any of God's chosen able to fulfill the true destiny that God intended for them. Adam failed over appetite. So did Noah. Abraham also, but God was determined to establish a people after His own heart and show the gentiles His law, His mercy and grace and power. Interesting that Adam, Noah, and Israel all failed on points of appetite. (Gen 9:20,21; Exodus 16:27-29.)

It wasn't until Jesus came on the scene in person that the title "Israel" in it's truest spiritual sense and power could be rightly bestowed. And Mathew in particular showed this time and time again how Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT prophecies which may have originally applied to the nation, but now, according to Mathew's inspired writings, applied in fact to Jesus. Examples are Hosea 11:1 ; Isaiah 41:8,42:1-3 .

Paul followed the same idea and reasoning by paralleling Col 1:15 with Ex 4:22, Gal 3:16 with Isaiah 41:8 and elsewhere.

Jesus Himself proclaimed Himself as the true vine, in fulfilment of Ps 80:8 which applied to the nation.
So now the mantle and authority once bestowed upon the nation has been given to Jesus. Jesus is the essence of true Israel. He only has the right to bear the name for He only has prevailed with sin and overcome. Jesus walked over the same ground that Israel walked, but came through victorious. In His temptations in the wilderness, it was appetite that came under particular scrutiny.

What Paul does in Romans and other writers in the NT however is extend that idea and show how the name Israel also now applies to Jesus' descendants, just as it did to Jacob's descendants. Peter also showed this when he compared the church to Exodus 19:6.(1 Peter 2:9).
So as Paul says, immediately after saying that Jesus is the 'seed' of Abraham, Gentile converts in Galatia were now also Abraham's seed because they are Christ's. They are also heirs according to the promise.
This is not 'replacement ' theology. It is merely a revelation of who true Israel always was and who Israel is now. It is those people, of whatever nation kindred tongue and people, who by faith in the mercy grace and power of God overcome sin and receive Christ's righteousness and forgiveness as a gift and are willing to share that gift with the lost. True Israel was always exclusively those who "as princes had power with God and men and prevailed".

Thus the unfulfilled covenant that Jeremiah speaks of and repeated in hebrews, "I will place My laws in their hearts and in their minds I will write them" applies to the church, not a resurgent nation. All Israel will be saved, but the descendants of Jesus, not flesh and blood descendants of Jacob, unless they also receive Jesus as their Saviour.

And the prophecies that most believe apply to the nation, apply to the church. For example, Armageddon is not the world arrayed against the nation of Israel, but the unsaved world (those who have accepted the mark) arrayed against the remnant who have refused the mark, and are under the sentence of death. Those who keep the commandments of God, (and thus have gained that victory over sin) and have the faith of Jesus. Rev.12:17; 14:12.

 

[covenantee]

Do you know where Jesus will return? It's called Israel! Do you know why Israel is back to stay?

Do you know that only a remnant of Israel will be ready for Jesus' return? Isaiah 10:22, Romans 9:27

Do you know where the Israelites who have not believed on Him will end?

It's called hell.

 

[Wrangler]

Well written post @Brakelite. Thank you.

Who is true Israel? Is it the physical nation fighting for its existence in the Middle East, or is it the spiritual entity we know as the church.

A 3rd answer is Israel is the renamed person of Jacob. The true answer is all 3.

This is the first time Israel is used in a corporate sense for the entire nation.

Confirming this is a true or correct answer.

It wasn't until Jesus came on the scene in person that the title "Israel" in it's truest spiritual sense and power could be rightly bestowed.

As one who reject mysticism, I reject a distinction between X and "true" X. Also, true or false are absolutes; there are no degrees of truth, such as "truest."

For a child's understanding, we might speak the truth in general terms. In a court proceeding, there may be a different level of specificity - but not a degree of truth.

FYI, here you introduce a new paradigm. 1st, you questioned if word X applies to a nation or a religion. Here you invoke the notion of it applying to power.

 

[Davy]

The idea that the Jewish people still have God's favour, is sadly mistaken. They have had nearly 2000 years of God's grace for them to accept their Messiah. This has not and will not happen, as Jesus knew they wouldn't. That is why He said that He would save the lost House of Israel. the other ten tribes, still in exile, who have largely accepted Jesus and are now His Overcomers, the genuine Israelites of God.

Of course that above wrong idea totally scraps... what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about his brethren the Jews which God blinded so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles...

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Back at Romans 11:8 Paul showed how even starting long ago God put the "spirit of slumber" upon the majority of Paul's brethren the Jews. Paul showed above that state will remain for the majority of Jews until the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in", which means when Jesus returns. Then many of them will come out of that stupor and believe on Jesus.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

Is God able to re-mold their mind towards Jesus Christ? Did He do it for Apostle Paul who before was persecuting Christ's Church? Who will question the Power of God?

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

That above shows they are STILL deemed GOD's election, as God will not go back on His gifts for His chosen and their calling. And as for the nation state of Israel today, I must REMIND brethren that God promised to always leave "one tribe" at Jerusalem for His servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake.

Therefore, though the orthodox unbelieving Jews are still as a majority blinded to The Gospel, and likely will be deceived for the coming tribulation, their accountability while in that blindess is in GOD's Hands, NOT their own, because He is Who has put the blindness on them away from The Gospel.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
KJV

So where is the "mercy" of those in Christ Jesus in forgiving them today, and welcoming them into Christ's Kingdom in the future when their 'blindness' is removed?? I assure you, those who think they are already in Christ's Kingdom would not be so ready to cast them away.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

That’s interesting. There’s three generations in my family …my mother, then me, then my daughters, then my grandchildren…opps that four generations right? The next line down would be my grandchildren’s children?

3 generations back i am on about ? and also 3 generations forward is true the same regards in all such. yep you are right in that regard. they all abide to within that range.

So it's you and your kids and their kids. = 3.
Now your 2 kids both have a different Dad ? see ! but them kids from both, will have how many other mum's or dads ? see ! now lets look at the next generation and see ? how much is it of you, that you are, that is them all ? then look at the next lot, it's been watered down even more ! So where does on draw the line ?

So if one was to go back 10 times ? how much are you of them 2 ? because you are more related to your 1st and 2 ed cousins by far than going back 10 generations or forward is the same deal regardless. is it not ?
Am i wrong ! i am never wrong. :) but i am open to be proven wrong.

 

[Brakelite]

Of course that above wrong idea totally scraps... what Apostle Paul said in Romans 11 about his brethren the Jews which God blinded so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles...

Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Back at Romans 11:8 Paul showed how even starting long ago God put the "spirit of slumber" upon the majority of Paul's brethren the Jews. Paul showed above that state will remain for the majority of Jews until the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in", which means when Jesus returns. Then many of them will come out of that stupor and believe on Jesus.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, 'There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.'

Is God able to re-mold their mind towards Jesus Christ? Did He do it for Apostle Paul who before was persecuting Christ's Church? Who will question the Power of God?

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

That above shows they are STILL deemed GOD's election, as God will not go back on His gifts for His chosen and their calling. And as for the nation state of Israel today, I must REMIND brethren that God promised to always leave "one tribe" at Jerusalem for His servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake.

Therefore, though the orthodox unbelieving Jews are still as a majority blinded to The Gospel, and likely will be deceived for the coming tribulation, their accountability while in that blindess is in GOD's Hands, NOT their own, because He is Who has put the blindness on them away from The Gospel.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
KJV

So where is the "mercy" of those in Christ Jesus in forgiving them today, and welcoming them into Christ's Kingdom in the future when their 'blindness' is removed?? I assure you, those who think they are already in Christ's Kingdom would not be so ready to cast them away.

I fairly much have no substantive issue with your post here, suffice to clarify that God's elect are not the nation of Israel, but those individual members who believe in their Messiah and are saved.

Tell us that "reason". Do you know where Jesus will return? It's called Israel.

Jesus at the second coming will not even touch Israel. We meet the Lord in the air, and so will we always be with Him. The wicked dead are not raised at the second coming. They sleep in death until the end of the millennium when the New Jerusalem comes down our of heaven, with all the saints and the Lord inside, and settles on that area we know as Israel. Then the wicked are raised to face their judgement. Fire then comes down and destroys every last one of them including Satan and all good demons. The earth is cleansed in that fire from every vestige of sin and environmental pollution. A blank canvas for...Then will Israel...us... Inherit the earth. A new earth. And a new heaven.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Numbers 25

While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them.

4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

5 So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”

6 Then an Israelite man brought into the camp a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman’s stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The Lord said to Moses, 11 “Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites. Since he was as zealous for my honor among them as I am, I did not put an end to them in my zeal. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites.”

14 The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the leader of a Simeonite family. 15 And the name of the Midianite woman who was put to death was Kozbi daughter of Zur, a tribal chief of a Midianite family.

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them. 18 They treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the Peor incident involving their sister Kozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of that incident.”

 

[covenantee]

Numbers 25

While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them.

4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

5 So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”

6 Then an Israelite man brought into the camp a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman’s stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The Lord said to Moses, 11 “Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites. Since he was as zealous for my honor among them as I am, I did not put an end to them in my zeal. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites.”

14 The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the leader of a Simeonite family. 15 And the name of the Midianite woman who was put to death was Kozbi daughter of Zur, a tribal chief of a Midianite family.

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them. 18 They treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the Peor incident involving their sister Kozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of that incident.”

You seem to have ignored verse 9.

Ah, it is there. As hidden as you can make it.

Doesn't it deserve its own line?

 

[Jack]

Multitudes of Israel have believed on Him since Calvary.

Why are you ignoring the reason that God punished Israel?

I'm not. We are all sinners. Yes even you.

God bless Israel!!!

And He will. And He will curse those attacking Israel.

 

[Jack]

Unbelief.

Do you know for whom Jesus will return? It's called His Church.

In Israel? Are you in Israel?

 

[Jack]

Do you know that only a remnant of Israel will be ready for Jesus' return? Isaiah 10:22, Romans 9:27

Do you know where the Israelites who have not believed on Him will end?

It's called hell.

And so will those attacking Israel.