TinMan
Well-Known Member
and you are the one not being truthful so apply this to yourself.
Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?
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TinMan
Well-Known Member
Obviously you think it is sometime before 8. So...again what EVIL was Gabriel engaging in that he deserved to be tortured and mutilated and then murdered by his own parents?
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TinMan
Well-Known Member
I'm very aggressive about the truth and in confronting hate
I support your right to hate whoever you please, gays, blacks, jews, the handicapped but don't expect me or anyone to be silent when you try to inflict your choice to hate onto others and when you try to defend that hate on moral grounds.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the argument is still that men can't love each other, without being tempted to violate that love?
As the Bible says the fallen "exchange the proper use for what is carnal" (paraphrase) but it does not say "they have to" - implying it is still a choice.
As the Bible says the fallen "exchange the proper use for what is carnal" (paraphrase) but it does not say "they have to" - implying it is still a choice.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Friend, you are desperately attempting to connect things that are not related. No one said he deserved to be tortured and mutilated.
Yet, you are the one who said he succumbed to EVIL. You know the gay agenda is EVIL.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Finding Identity: An LGBTQ Pastor’s Journey | David Norse | TEDxPhiladelphia
293,303 views Feb 9, 2016
“I was encouraged and on fire for the Lord and I felt a call to become a Presbyterian pastor and I also knew that I was gay, and that’s a paradox if ever there was one, and I had to figure it out.” In his talk David Norse, the first openly gay man to be ordained as a Presbyterian Pastor in Philadelphia, follows his journey from around the campfires at church camp, to Woody’s gay bar, to becoming a pastor at Broad Street Ministry. He illustrates and debunks the use of Scripture to exclude LGBTQ people from the church, and his personal story of how he reconciled being a gay man and also being Christian. From the societal shift to support same sex marriage within the church to the revolution of the Christian identity and LGBTQ identity coming together, David invites us to ask questions and challenge what we know and believe about God and the LGBTQ community. David Norse is the first openly gay man to be ordained as a Presbyterian Pastor in Philadelphia. An Oregon native, Norse pursued personal wholeness through the intersection of his Christian and LGBTQ identity. David is a graduate of Lewis & Clark College and Princeton Theological Seminary and has served as Pastoral Associate at Broad Street Ministry since September 2013. In his work, Norse challenges the narratives that cut communities off from wholeness and thriving. In so doing his work extends radical hospitality to the most vulnerable adults in Philadelphia.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
You are most certainly wrong. IMHO
There are many testimonies of homosexuals in monogamous relationships.
And many testimonies of heterosexuals in multiple relationships.
Sexual immorality is NOT limited to homosexuals. You already knew that.
The "clobber" passages are greatly misunderstood. There is help.
UnClobber
What does the Bible say about Homosexuality? UnClobber explores the Clobber Passages and wrestles with being gay and being a Christian, and what does the Bible truly say about homosexuality?
www.unclobber.com
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What is confusing is that you are talking as if there is no way out of that immorality or if there is, it means ending that relationship.
Fidelity is different to the expression of that fidelity - you need to distinguish between violating the act and purifying it.
You may never have been taught how to keep yourself pure, but prescribing which relationships should succeed and which should fail, requires you to take the plank out of your eye first (am I directing you to become homosexual or to question your own integrity, no! There is no plank there?).
It's still a sin as God man man to be with women.
Those folks won't be getting in to Heaven
TinMan
Well-Known Member
I view a friend as someone i would have in my home. A friend is someone I would trust to be around my children. You aren't my friend.
experiencing hate and discrimination’ as you call it, tends to happen when you do something EVIL.
can you tell me just what EVIL Gabriel did?
It is pathetic how you constantly deflect from the EVIL of homosexuality.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
You are most certainly wrong. IMHO
There are many testimonies of homosexuals in monogamous relationships.
And many testimonies of heterosexuals in multiple relationships.
Sexual immorality is NOT limited to homosexuals. You already knew that.
And to be clear, you have a right to your own position. We do not have to agree.
I am working to help Christians to understand this complex issue.
This is an important discussion to have. IMHO.
- A monogamous relationship is choosing one mate for life.
- A single lifestyle is NOT choosing one mate for life.
- A promiscuous lifestyle is having having sex with multiple partners.
Which can happen as a matter of being single (fornication)
or as being in a monogamous relationship (adultery).
Any of these three items above can be exercised in
either heterosexual, or homosexual persons.
Your post, and the uninformed attitude of most Christians, is that
LGBTQ automatically means a promiscuous lifestyle. Not true.
In fact many people of faith discover that they are LGBTQ,
or have a family member that makes this discovery.
With their moral values still intact. (I know, I know...)
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You are most certainly wrong. IMHO
There are many testimonies of homosexuals in monogamous relationships.
And many testimonies of heterosexuals in multiple relationships.
Sexual immorality is NOT limited to homosexuals. You already knew that.
I'm not sure if I can untangle what you are saying in your post. But I will try to clarify my position.
And to be clear, you have a right to your own position. We do not have to agree.
I am working to help Christians to understand this complex issue.
This is an important discussion to have. IMHO.
- A monogamous relationship is choosing one mate for life.
- A single lifestyle is NOT choosing one mate for life.
- A promiscuous lifestyle is having having sex with multiple partners.
Which can happen as a matter of being single (fornication)
or as being in a monogamous relationship (adultery).
Any of these three items above can be exercised in
either heterosexual, or homosexual persons.
Your post, and the uninformed attitude of most Christians, is that
LGBTQ automatically means a promiscuous lifestyle. Not true.
In fact many people of faith discover that they are LGBTQ,
or have a family member that makes this discovery.
With their moral values still intact. (I know, I know...)
/
That is not the definition of monogamous.
A monogamy is one partner at a time.
Most of us go into a monogomous relationship thinking/wanting it to be for life, but it doesn't always happen. I was divorced against my will by my wife. I thought it would be for life.
Now I am in another monogamous relationship with my fiance. We are only with each other and no one else.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
That makes sense.
Sorry to hear about your loss. I know that can be difficult.
I have many friends that I have been a support for while going through that.
I was best man at a wedding for the remarriage of one of those friends recently.
(complete with the "I can't find the rings" gag. - LOL)
I'm guessing the INTENTION of your first marriage was a partner for life. ???
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Yes! As it was also for my fiance. Her husband constantly cheated on her and told her he will not stop and that she should find someone else. So she divorced him.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
It is a common occurrence for someone to use phenomenological language when describing their experiences. For example, a woman may say to her friend on the phone while describing her vacation experience, "We got up the next morning to watch the sunrise." It is not expected for her friend to respond with, "Don't be ridiculous, silly. :) Everyone knows that the earth rotates on its axis."
The Bible is filled with such descriptions. To suggest that Paul's statements are untrue because the Bible contains phenomenological language is absurd. Nonetheless, as I discuss the oughtness of homosexuality, my views are predicated on the Biblical definition as Paul indicated.
Paul's claim is that homosexual behavior is the most obvious case of God having given man over to degrading passions and a depraved mind. The basis of his claim is the natural order. I think you tacitly agree with him because you continually attempt to shift the focus to orientation rather than homosexuality. Your argument goes something like this. Orientation is an innate attribute of humanity. One should be allowed to freely give expression to his or her humanity. Therefore homosexual behavior should be allowed.
Your argument assumes, incorrectly, that male-male and female-female orientation is both a natural and healthy attribute of humanity. You claim to have scientific proof, but your proof is bogus as I have already argued. If God, then God would never create an attribute of humanity that would violate his purpose for sexuality, which is reproduction. If Nature, then such an attribute would never survive more than one generation since natural selection depends on an interchange and combination of genetic material between a male and a female.
In other words, the very idea of innate "orientation" is absurd.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
She divorced him, married you, and then divorced you?
The common element in this equation (her) makes me wonder. ???
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Huh?
No. My ex- wife is the one that divorced me against my will. I have never been married to my fiance. Her husband cheated many times on her and so she divorced him.
Make sense now?
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Yes. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
The term "fiance" indicates an intent for marriage.
Is that your intention, or just something you say to defuse the situation with Christians?
I'm fine with that.
Not sure I would recommend marriage for you two, unless it was what you BOTH wanted.
Especially if you were planning to have children.
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