False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[David in NJ]

Rapture haters=you will be left behind===Jesus will catch up (rapture) THOSE LOOKING FOR HIM.

Actually, it is people who hate the Truth = Truth are the words which Christ has spoken = SEE Matthew ch24

 

[Davy]

I like your passion, and only time will tell if the Rapture is a "joke" as you say. I tend to see Scripture through dispensations, and this may be stumbling block for you. We are living in the Church age, a time when the Jews as a whole reject Messiah Jesus. It's the Gentiles who predominately accept Him. Once this is understood, then the Rapture becomes more clear.

A time-will-tell attitude is exactly what will get one in trouble, if looking for Christ's coming to gather us PRIOR to the "great tribulation" He warned us about.

The reason is because the pseudo-Christ (Antichrist) comes first, and it ain't no pope.

And by my warning brethren about the SIGNS Lord Jesus gave, especially about that pseudo-Christ that is coming first to play Jesus, then I will have fulfilled my duty in Christ per His Word on this matter. I won't have to try and provide an excuse when He comes and He asks me why I didn't warn the brethren per His Word.

 

[07-07-07]

pre-trib (unscriptural) human intellect religious mish-mash thinking = "It makes sense in that the Church is under grace during the current Church age and will be caught up before God turns His attention back to Israel for their final week (seven years) of punishment."

Religion(pre-trib) always makes 'sense' to the worshipper of such = just ask a catholic about their idols......same application


Eternal Food for thought = Have you ever considered why there cannot be found in Scripture, even one pre-trib rapture declaration?

Again, it is a preponderance of the evidence found in Scripture. When put together, it becomes a theory. A mystery. Also, have you noticed that the mainstream media is now seriously reporting on the reality of UFO's? Why now? It used to be the talk of conspiracy zealots, but now it's serious news headlines. It certainly gives credence to the Rapture theory, as it's an explanation of the great disappearance. Again, a culmination and preponderance of the evidence. Will it hold true? Only time will tell. God bless you, friend.

 

[07-07-07]

A time-will-tell attitude is exactly what will get one in trouble, if looking for Christ's coming to gather us PRIOR to the "great tribulation" He warned us about.

The reason is because the pseudo-Christ (Antichrist) comes first, and it ain't no pope.

And by my warning brethren about the SIGNS Lord Jesus gave, especially about that pseudo-Christ that is coming first to play Jesus, then I will have fulfilled my duty in Christ per His Word on this matter. I won't have to try and provide an excuse when He comes and He asks me why I didn't warn the brethren per His Word.

Friend, I've already pondered these many things. I also feel confident in who the soon-to-be revealed anti-christ is. He's very active on the world stage, and just another world crisis may well catapult him onto the world stage as the savior of humankind. The world is desperate for such a man.

 

[David in NJ]

Again, it is a preponderance of the evidence found in Scripture. When put together, it becomes a theory. A mystery. Also, have you noticed that the mainstream media is now seriously reporting on the reality of UFO's? Why now? It used to be the talk of conspiracy zealots, but now it's serious news headlines. It certainly gives credence to the Rapture theory, as it's an explanation of the great disappearance. Again, a culmination and preponderance of the evidence. Will it hold true? Only time will tell. God bless you, friend.

@07-07-07 says: "it is a preponderance of the evidence found in Scripture, when put together it is a theory"
Just sit back and look at your words here!

Biblical Logic 101 = If there were a "preponderance of evidence there would be no "theory" or speculating!

Advance Biblical Logic = The overwhelming DIRECT scriptural evidence from Genesis to Revelation speaks of only one Second Coming after the Tribulation:

Always AGREE with the overwhelming and DIRECT evidence of Scripture that needs no man to interpret.

a.) Matthew chaper 24 = JESUS says: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...."

b.) 1 John 2:18 = Apostle John says: "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour."

c.) 2 Thess 2:1-4 = Apostle Paul agrees with Apostle John "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

d.) OT Daniel ch7 =
Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

Revelation ch13 = And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

@07-07-07 = SEE how the preponderance of scriptural evidence AGREES with Post-Trib and never contradicts Post-Trib

 

[strepho]

So don't be deceived by the false doctrine of the Secret Rapture.The Second Coming will be seen by everyone so its kind of hard to have a "Secret Rapture" with everyone watching. So how will Christ return and how will the Second Coming unfold, well lets start at how he ascended:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'. Acts 1:9-11

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him. Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory. Matthew 25:31

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

Jesus return in the clouds will be visible to everyone on earth and will be any kind of secret, or only seen or experience by a select few. Christ also warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

Jesus return in the clouds will great a audible sound so that everyone on earth know of his coming, not just a select few.

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

Jesus will return in the clouds while everyone sees and hears his Second Coming and the faithful, those that had died and those alive will be picked up and meet him in mid-air in the cloud of his angels. The redeemed (elect) will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky, the verses make clear it is not a secret rapture.

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31 NIV

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalm 50:5

The living righteous are changed in moments at the last trumpet. We cannot go to heaven with pain, sickness, disease, we will be transformed in a instance, all these things will be taken away. Our bodies will be changed into the likeness of His, incorruptible, and changed to immortal.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory.' 1 Corinthians 15: 51-54

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body... Philippians 3:20, 21

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him . . and every man that hath this hope in Him, purifieth himself, even as He is pure. 1 John 3:2,3

He will swallow up death in victory, and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth; for the Lord has spoken it. And it shall be said in that day: 'Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for Him; we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.' Isaiah 25:8,9

Good job. I won't have to build on this, Corinthians chapter 3. Dont listen to the misguided brethren. You documentation was full proof.
Those trying to tear at you lack faith.
Ignore those who wont listen to the truth.
Keep plowing deep my friend.
You have my support.
Zadok.

 

[Timtofly]

Eternal Food for thought = Have you ever considered why there cannot be found in Scripture, even one pre-trib rapture declaration?

Have you ever considered why there cannot be found in Scripture, even one post trib rapture declaration?

 

[David in NJ]

Have you ever considered why there cannot be found in Scripture, even one post trib rapture declaration?

Like this one from JESUS = Matthew ch24

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Hobie]

The Second Coming of Christ is the only 'rapture' and as it clearly lays out, every eye will see it, so nothing 'secret' about it. But Christ warned of the 'false' Christ and not to be fooled, and yet this what this idea of a 'secret rapture' leads into.

 

[Timtofly]

Like this one from JESUS = Matthew ch24

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

No rapture mentioned in those verses from off the earth. Besides, this happens before the Trumpets and Thunders. It happens at the 5th and 6th Seal. I have pointed that out.

In the 5th Seal they are gathered from heaven and given a white robe and then told to wait.

"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Does the 5th Seal happen after the tribulation of those days?

Does the 5th Seal happen before the Trumpets and Thunders?

Has there been tribulation since Pentecost?

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

Yes there has been, even apostasy, and persecution. Wars and rumors of wars has been ongoing all the way to the 4th Seal being opened. So which tribulation are we talking about? The one prior to the Second Coming, or after the Second Coming, during the Trumpets and Thunders?

 

[Davy]

Again, it is a preponderance of the evidence found in Scripture. When put together, it becomes a theory. A mystery. Also, have you noticed that the mainstream media is now seriously reporting on the reality of UFO's? Why now? It used to be the talk of conspiracy zealots, but now it's serious news headlines. It certainly gives credence to the Rapture theory, as it's an explanation of the great disappearance. Again, a culmination and preponderance of the evidence. Will it hold true? Only time will tell. God bless you, friend.

That's funny. Man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory is just a "mystery", right, sure, to those who DO NOT STUDY THEIR BIBLE and refuse to heed Christ's warnings directly in His Word, and especially those who preach that LIE for money, showing they don't really care about The Word of God.

And trying to cloud up this fact by serving up UFO theories and media baloney like the Truth can't be known is actually a MOCKING against Christ's Own Word where He REVEALS He comes AFTER the tribulation to gather His saints.

 

[Hobie]

The Rapture is a theory based on the mystery of the Scriptures, and it's a very valid theory. It makes sense in that the Church is under grace during the current Church age and will be caught up before God turns His attention back to Israel for their final week (seven years) of punishment. Will it hold to be true? Only time will tell.

Jewish dispensation (Spring) ==> Gentile dispensation (Summer) ==> One more week of Jewish dispensation (Fall) ==> Return of Messiah Jesus to execute the winepress of the fierceness of God's wrath (Winter) ==> Millennial Kingdom (New Age)

Was the Gentile Church on earth when Jesus fulfilled the first 4 of the 7 Jewish feasts of the Lord? No (The Gentile Church really began when the Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius, his friends and family). Jesus fulfilled all the spring feasts, i.e., the Feast of Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Feast of Firstfruits, the Feast of the Harvest (Pentecost). There are 3 more feasts to be fulfilled, which are all in the fall, i.e., the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. It seems consistently logical that Jesus will fulfill them too. In God's seasonal calendar, the Gentile Church is in the summer season, and all the end-time signs indicate that we are at the end of the summer season. Fall is soon to begin. Will the Gentile Church be here on earth when Jesus begins to fulfill the last 3 Jewish feasts, beginning with the feast of Trumpets?

1 Thessalonians 4
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Theory is not truth, it is ideas of man. We must read what the Bible says, not come with a corruption or outright falsehood.

 

[07-07-07]

Will UFO's be the world's explanation of the Rapture of Jesus' Church? What was once conspiracy talk and scoffed at is now mainstream news. Things are really coming together with such convergence of end-time events.

"MEXICO CITY, Sept 13 (Reuters) - Mexican lawmakers heard testimony that "we are not alone" in the universe and saw the alleged remains of non-human beings in an extraordinary hearing marking the Latin American country's first congressional event on UFOs.In the hearing on Tuesday on FANI, the Spanish acronym for what are usually now termed Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP), politicians were shown two artifacts that Mexican journalist and long-time UFO enthusiast Jaime Maussan claimed were the corpses of extraterrestrials." - Mexican Congress holds hearing on UFOs featuring purported 'alien' bodies

 

[Davy]

Will UFO's be the world's explanation of the Rapture of Jesus' Church? What was once conspiracy talk and scoffed at is now mainstream news. Things are really coming together with such convergence of end-time events.

God's Word reveals what that's all about too, that is, for the believer who actually studies God's Word for theirself with God's help by The Holy Spirit.

But you certainly are not ready to understand that UFO phenomenon, because you haven't even yet understood what Lord Jesus said about His future coming to gather His saints AFTER the coming "great tribulation".

 

[07-07-07]

God's Word reveals what that's all about too, that is, for the believer who actually studies God's Word for theirself with God's help by The Holy Spirit.

But you certainly are not ready to understand that UFO phenomenon, because you haven't even yet understood what Lord Jesus said about His future coming to gather His saints AFTER the coming "great tribulation".

From my perspective, I hardly find it a coincidence that the once-scoffed-at UFO conspiracy is now mainstream news and investigations by governments, all at the same time of all the other end-time events. This is no mere coincidence and it certainly gives credence to an explanation of the Rapture. You can harp on about your superior knowledge of the Scriptures, but others with different perspectives of Scriptures feel just as passionate. I see Scripture through the lense of dispensations, which you obviously don't. The time of the gentiles is almost up, summer is almost over, and the Bride (Gentiles and Messianic Jews) will go sailing through the air to meet her Groom in the clouds; yes, as anti-christ closes in, the Rapture will be a miracle like parting the Red Sea as Pharaoh (a type of anti-christ) was closing in on God's chosen. Meanwhile, God will finish His judgement of the Jews here on earth, while offering grace to them during Jacob's time of trouble, i.e., their 70th week as spoken of by the prophet Daniel and Jesus too. There may be some overlap of the dispensations, only time will tell. That's my take.

 

[ewq1938]

From my perspective, I hardly find it a coincidence that the once-scoffed-at UFO conspiracy is now mainstream news and investigations by governments, all at the same time of all the other end-time events. This is no mere coincidence and it certainly gives credence to an explanation of the Rapture.

Or a false rapture from a false christ. The apostasia/Departure is coming!

 

[07-07-07]

Or a false rapture from a false christ. The apostasia/Departure is coming!

The apostasy is already here.

 

[ewq1938]

The apostasy is already here.

Not the one Paul wrote about because it is tied to the revealing of the man of sin also known as the AC. The falling away is to fall from Christ to this false christ.

General apostasy existed long ago and exists now but there is a specific one, where a group of Christians who don't have enough "oil" will fall away in the darkness of the tribulation.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This Apostasy happens in the timeframe that the AC claims to be god openly to the whole world.

 

[07-07-07]

Not the one Paul wrote about because it is tied to the revealing of the man of sin also known as the AC. The falling away is to fall from Christ to this false christ.

General apostasy existed long ago and exists now but there is a specific one, where a group of Christians who don't have enough "oil" will fall away in the darkness of the tribulation.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This Apostasy happens in the timeframe that the AC claims to be god openly to the whole world.

"except there come a falling away first", not afterwards. Again, the apostasy is in full swing now. COVID-19 really propelled this apostasy further.

"Davis and Graham write in their book, “The Great Dechurching: Who’s Leaving, Why Are They Going, and What Will It Take to Bring Them Back?” that “more people have left the church in the last 25 years than all the new people who became Christians from the First Great Awakening, Second Great Awakening, and Billy Graham crusades combined.” What does the falling away look like? It looks like this, but even worse than you think it is. Let me explain.“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJB)" - The 'Great Dechurching'

 

[Davy]

From my perspective, I hardly find it a coincidence that the once-scoffed-at UFO conspiracy is now mainstream news and investigations by governments, all at the same time of all the other end-time events. This is no mere coincidence and it certainly gives credence to an explanation of the Rapture. You can harp on about your superior knowledge of the Scriptures, but others with different perspectives of Scriptures feel just as passionate. I see Scripture through the lense of dispensations, which you obviously don't. The time of the gentiles is almost up, summer is almost over, and the Bride (Gentiles and Messianic Jews) will go sailing through the air to meet her Groom in the clouds; yes, as anti-christ closes in, the Rapture will be a miracle like parting the Red Sea as Pharaoh (a type of anti-christ) was closing in on God's chosen. Meanwhile, God will finish His judgement of the Jews here on earth, while offering grace to them during Jacob's time of trouble, i.e., their 70th week as spoken of by the prophet Daniel and Jesus too. There may be some overlap of the dispensations, only time will tell. That's my take.

Didn't you read God's Word about the warnings of the coming Antichrist? God's Word goes deeper about that coming Antichrist at the end of this world, and also about those who are coming with him. If you had... understood that in God's Word, then you might have understood why the powers in the world are pushing public opinion to believe the UFOs are real.