Do you believe that ALL babies that die go to Heaven or only "the elect"?

[Truther]

Yes, of course. (son small s)
What about Son? (capital S) ???

In what sense?
Biblical evidence?

The man Christ Jesus transcends time. He was on earth(in time) and in heaven(timelessness) at the same moment....


And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


...while the man Christ Jesus was on earth.

Here is the son of Mary found in heaven...


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Truther]

Right, He's God, he can do anything.
Doesn't mean he did. Evidence please.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Truther]

Now you understand this...

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

 

[ScottA]

I think all babies that die to to Heaven, although I don't know that I can back that belief with scripture.

Might be argued that it would be better for all people if they all died as babies so that they would all go to Heaven rather than growing into adulthood and risking being condemned to Hell?

To clarify...No, all babies do not go to heaven.

According to the explanation given in the record of creation by God, each creation is created "after their kind." Meaning, that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, Yes, each baby born to them would have been born without sin. But that is not the case, that is not what happened. Thus, following the terms of "after their kind" means that mankind since the original sin of Adam and Eve, all who came "after," were and are born of the [sin] "kind"...not destine to go to heaven, but to die. Unless--unless they "put out their hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— Which Jesus--the Savior of the world sent by God the Father came preaching, calling it being "born again."

As such, all babies born since Adam and Eve are otherwise destine for hell, which without salvation is this separation from God of life in this world, made permanent.

 

[St. SteVen]

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

That is a controversial translation. (I suppose you'll say the same about mine) - LOL

John 3:13 NIV
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a]

Footnote​

1. John 3:13 Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Slain figuratively as the Logos/logic/reason or actually slain literally from the foundation of the world?
When were humankind atoned for?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Was God conceived by God here?...


20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost


Or, did the Father person and the Holy Ghost person conceive the Son person?

Or, did all 3 conceive the flesh of the son person(including son impregnating his mother)?

Or, is there a parental discrepency between the 1st and 3rd persons(both claiming paternity).

I think you RCC fellers got a lotta answerin ta do.

Your entire heretical theology centers on the fact that you don't have the faith to accept that is the Biblical truth of the mystery of the Triune Godhead.
You're NOT alone. Neither do the Mormoms or the JWs - so you're in good company . . .

 

[Triumph1300]

To clarify...No, all babies do not go to heaven.

According to the explanation given in the record of creation by God, each creation is created "after their kind." Meaning, that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, Yes, each baby born to them would have been born without sin. But that is not the case, that is not what happened. Thus, following the terms of "after their kind" means that mankind since the original sin of Adam and Eve, all who came "after," were and are born of the [sin] "kind"...not destine to go to heaven, but to die. Unless--unless they "put out their hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— Which Jesus--the Savior of the world sent by God the Father came preaching, calling it being "born again."

As such, all babies born since Adam and Eve are otherwise destine for hell, which without salvation is this separation from God of life in this world, made permanent.

2 Samuel 12:23 could certainly imply that babies who die go to heaven. Regarding his child who died, King David declared, “But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” Being that David wrote special revelation (Scripture), it would not be a stretch to surmise that babies who die are destined for heaven, where David himself knew he was going.


I believe God is a just God.
Do you actually believe that sending a baby to hell is a just thing to do?
What kind of God do you believe in?
Deuteronomy 32:4

 

[Truther]

To clarify...No, all babies do not go to heaven.

According to the explanation given in the record of creation by God, each creation is created "after their kind." Meaning, that if Adam and Eve had not sinned, Yes, each baby born to them would have been born without sin. But that is not the case, that is not what happened. Thus, following the terms of "after their kind" means that mankind since the original sin of Adam and Eve, all who came "after," were and are born of the [sin] "kind"...not destine to go to heaven, but to die. Unless--unless they "put out their hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— Which Jesus--the Savior of the world sent by God the Father came preaching, calling it being "born again."

As such, all babies born since Adam and Eve are otherwise destine for hell, which without salvation is this separation from God of life in this world, made permanent.

No, every soul will be judged according to their works per Rev 20.

Babies have not committed sins.

...for such is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Truther]

That is a controversial translation. (I suppose you'll say the same about mine) - LOL

John 3:13 NIV
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[a]

Footnote​

1. John 3:13 Some manuscripts Man, who is in heaven

Slain figuratively as the Logos/logic/reason or actually slain literally from the foundation of the world?
When were humankind atoned for?

You had to find a modern biased translation.

Your people completely removed son of man.

You lose.

 

[Truther]

Your entire heretical theology centers on the fact that you don't have the faith to accept that is the Biblical truth of the mystery of the Triune Godhead.
You're NOT alone. Neither do the Mormoms or the JWs - so you're in good company . . .

Wrong.

The triune Godhead is mythology, not Biblical truth.

And yes, it will always be a mysterious myth.

 

[ScottA]

2 Samuel 12:23 could certainly imply that babies who die go to heaven. Regarding his child who died, King David declared, “But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” Being that David wrote special revelation (Scripture), it would not be a stretch to surmise that babies who die are destined for heaven, where David himself knew he was going.


I believe God is a just God.
Do you actually believe that sending a baby to hell is a just thing to do?
What kind of God do you believe in?
Deuteronomy 32:4

You are reacting as if we are all born innocent when we are not, but are born the children of sin as a fallen bloodline. You apparently have heard nothing of what God/scripture has said or what I have said. If we were all born of heaven we would all go to heaven, but we are not. How is it that you do not understand that we are instead born of sin and our father the devil and ruler of this world?

But no, this world is condemn, even the very elements (which we too are made of) are to be destroyed by fervent heat and with fire; and it is only those who are born out of this world, born of God, born again of the spirit of God who come through the fire.

Thus, there are no innocent children, except those babes of the spirit of God. So, no, this prison world in which we were born and captives of is not the unjust reaction of a just God, but the intentional act of a just God in eradicating sin and evil once and for all. This is mercy. And no, this is not a prison where the innocent children of convicted criminals reside with them and are unjustly subject to their parents sins and penalties--no, but everyone born into this world is condemned already before they are born...because just as we who are saved all become "in Christ" literally as His body, all who are born since Adam are or were "in" him and of him and guilty as his body. In other words, what was unfolded from the one Adam to be many, is now being refolded into the One Jesus Christ..but only includes those who believe that He was sent for our salvation and open the door at His knocking and are born again of the spirit of God, which is the ascension of Christ and us with Him.

Keep reading the scriptures. It will all come clear eventually, but only "precept upon precept, line upon line, and here a little, there a little."

 

[ScottA]

No, every soul will be judged according to their works per Rev 20.

Babies have not committed sins.

...for such is the kingdom of heaven.

That is not the whole of scripture, only the wishful thinking of good hearted people.

The whole of scripture shows rather that one man Adam sinned creating a race of sinful people of his "kind"(--just as the young born of beasts and serpents), which unfolded from the one to be as many as are born of his body since him. The gospel then shows the refolding of the many into the One Jesus Christ where only those born [again] of His body are included, which is the ascension of Christ back to God/Heaven and we who are of His body with Him. Thus, it is written, there is only One "begotten Son."

 

[Truther]

You are reacting as if we are all born innocent when we are not, but are born the children of sin as a fallen bloodline. You apparently have heard nothing of what God/scripture has said or what I have said. If we were all born of heaven we would all go to heaven, but we are not. How is it that you do not understand that we are instead born of sin and our father the devil and ruler of this world?

But no, this world is condemn, even the very elements (which we too are made of) are to be destroyed by fervent heat and with fire; and it is only those who are born out of this world, born of God, born again of the spirit of God who come through the fire.

Thus, there are no innocent children, except those babes of the spirit of God. So, no, this prison world in which we were born and captives of is not the unjust reaction of a just God, but the intentional act of a just God in eradicating sin and evil once and for all. This is mercy. And no, this is not a prison where the innocent children of convicted criminals reside with them and are unjustly subject to their parents sins and penalties--no, but everyone born into this world is condemned already before they are born...because just as we who are saved all become "in Christ" literally as His body, all who are born since Adam are or were "in" him and of him and guilty as his body. In other words, what was unfolded from the one Adam to be many, is now being refolded into the One Jesus Christ..but only includes those who believe that He was sent for our salvation and open the door at His knocking and are born again of the spirit of God, which is the ascension of Christ and us with Him.

Keep reading the scriptures. It will all come clear eventually, but only "precept upon precept, line upon line, and here a little, there a little."

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Did Jesus say that about any other group of people?

 

[Truther]

That is not the whole of scripture, only the wishful thinking of good hearted people.

The whole of scripture shows rather that one man Adam sinned creating a race of sinful people of his "kind"(--just as the young born of beasts and serpents), which unfolded from the one to be as many as are born of his body since him. The gospel then shows the refolding of the many into the One Jesus Christ where only those born [again] of His body are included, which is the ascension of Christ back to God/Heaven and we who are of His body with Him. Thus, it is written, there is only One "begotten Son."

This is the judgement unto hell for all humans....


12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


...not bloodline.

 

[ScottA]

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Did Jesus say that about any other group of people?

Jesus also spoke in parables. Did you not know that all who are born of this world are parables merely made in the image of God? What better parable then to teach that one must be born again than to refer to children?

But what then...are children all born first of the spirit of God that you are correct in saying Jesus literally meant that children are born into the world perfect and have no need of being born again? Heaven forbid--that is not the gospel, and you have not fully understood. But no, He spoke only of the "likeness" of children that we should perceive the whole message regarding our need to be born again of the spirit of God which no child is first born of except Christ.

Thus, all children are born into this world as tares, and yet the best example of the world has to offer referring to wheat. This is the gospel of Christ Jesus.

 

[ScottA]

This is the judgement unto hell for all humans....


12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


...not bloodline.

No ..you are confusing works with proof by fire. The scripture refers rather to works as what one is actually made of, whether mere flesh or the spirit of God. Again, just as all things are, this is a parable. It refers to the wheat verses the chaff. And what of the blood? Is it too not a parable regarding salvation, and yet is it not written that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?"

Mark 4:13​

And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?​

 

[Truther]

Jesus also spoke in parables. Did you not know that all who are born of this world are parables merely made in the image of God? What better parable then to teach that one must be born again than to refer to children?

But what then...are children all born first of the spirit of God that you are correct in saying Jesus literally meant that children are born into the world perfect and have no need of being born again? Heaven forbid--that is not the gospel, and you have not fully understood. But no, He spoke only of the "likeness" of children that we should perceive the whole message regarding our need to be born again of the spirit of God which no child is first born of except Christ.

Thus, all children are born into this world as tares, and yet the best example of the world has to offer referring to wheat. This is the gospel of Christ Jesus.

Babies are not judged according to their works, nor severely retarded persons with minds of babies.

God is just, not evil.

 

[Truther]

No ..you are confusing works with proof by fire. The scripture refers rather to works as what one is actually made of, whether mere flesh or the spirit of God. Again, just as all things are, this is a parable. It refers to the wheat verses the chaff. And what of the blood? Is it too not a parable regarding salvation, and yet is it not written that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?"

Mark 4:13​

And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?​

Acts 20 is not "proving with fire".

You are a parable.

A bot, obviously.

 

[St. SteVen]

Your people completely removed son of man.

Removed? - LOL
As if the KJV is the standard. (from whom all blessings flow)

 

[Truther]

It’s kind of nice to find a modern translation that would be more comfortable to our tastebuds. you learn a doctrine and outcomes a translation to reinforce it. Can’t get better than that.