Will you go to heaven when you die? - (or the other place)

[Behold]

- What is heaven?

The 3rd Heaven......Its where the born again "In Christ"... are "seated in heavenly places in Christ", right now.

Its where "Christ is seated on the right hand of the Father".

Its where Paul went... 2 Corin 12:13

The NT defines it also as "GLORY">........"Christ in you, the hope.....of Glory"... (Glory is Heaven).

There are 3 Heavens.

When you look into the sky, that is one... and that is where the Bride of Christ is about to meet Jesus .

- Do unbelievers go to hell instead?

There are only 2 eternal destination...so, when you die a Christ rejector, never born again.. then you are not "IN Christ"... so, you go where those who are not born again, end up., and that is not the GRAVE.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Right.
When it comes to religion we should be dispassionate robots.

[

No, we should examine scripture carefully using our reasoning ability.

Basic Christianity. We are All sinners deserving only God's condemnation.
It is only because of God's mercy that anyone is offered what they don't deserve, forgiveness.

 

[Behold]

When it comes to religion we should be dispassionate robots.

When it comes to "religion" you want to avoid it.

Become a Born Again Christian, instead...... as that is not a man made Religion.

See, man makes "Religion".......whereas.....God the Father of Jesus the Son, created Christianity.

 

[St. SteVen]

When it comes to "religion" you want to avoid it.

Become a Born Again Christian, instead...... as that is not a man made Religion.

See, man makes "Religion".......whereas.....God the Father of Jesus the Son, created Christianity.

So, Christianity is not a religion? - LOL

You think it can't be, because it just can't be. Why not?

[

 

[Behold]

So, Christianity is not a religion?

CHRISTianity, is not a religion.

Listen....

RELIGION< is man made, and its based on trying to perform, and its hoped for end result is to reach God by self effort, or become God by self enlightenment.

Whereas....

CHRISTianity, is God's Son, coming down from Heaven, as the Virgin born "only Begotten" to offer Himself On The CROSS : as the ONLY = eternal reconciliation between God and Man.

 

[St. SteVen]

... there are people that are not wanting to be so in his presence and because of this, they are outside of the kingdom.

This is a mindset problem. IMHO
Who wouldn't want to be in the presence of absolute love?

The church has twisted that around to picture God as a being of angry burning wrath for
the hatred of humankind that doesn't measure up to his requirements and never will.

It helps to view the father of the prodigal as example.

Luke 15:20 NIV
... “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him
and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son,
threw his arms around him and kissed him.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

--- PARODY ---

Human: Wow, who are you?
God: I am God.
Human: Like the God of the Bible?
God: That's the one.
Human: Something doesn't seem right.
God: How's that?
Human: I expected you to be scarier.
God: Oh, right. The God of wrath?
Human: Exactly.
God: Well, now you can know for yourself.
Human: I stayed away from church for that reason.
God: Understandable. Who would want that?
Human: You seem very loving to me.
God: I am love. (the source)
Human: Is it okay if I hang out here for a while?
God: That would be fine.
Human: I have some questions.
God: I'm here for you.

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

Right.
When it comes to religion we should be dispassionate robots.

What is the flip side to a dispassionate robot? An overeactive emo…..justice does not have feelings. Sentiment does not govern anything connected to the implementation of Gods justice. It is dispassionate because it is pure, not corrupted or watered down by emotions.

Does the Bible record show a God who operated by feelings alone? He told his people how much he loved them and wanted them to simply obey his righteously motivated commands…..but they disobeyed him so often and to such an extent that, even when he sent his prophets to correct them, they silenced the prophets, ignored their warning, and often put them to death. (Matt 23:37) What should he have done?

God could not have been more forgiving, but on occasion, to demonstrate his intolerance of their disobedience, he punished them with death…was that cruel and dispassionate or something they deserved after due warning? He has patience……but it has limits. Justice must be served.

 

[Behold]

God could not have been more forgiving, but on occasion, to demonstrate his intolerance of their disobedience, he punished them with death…was that cruel and dispassionate or something they deserved after due warning? He has patience……but it has limits. Justice must be served.

When Jesus asked His Father to be released from The Cross,..... 'if it is possible"... "Let this CUP, pass from me"..

The "Cup" = is the just judgement of Holy God against the sin of the world, that Christ CHOSE to accept upon Himself.

And God's judgement : "the Cup".. poured out on Jesus, who bore all our sin.... = the Sacrifice of Jesus.....
God's Justified WRATH against sin, was literally poured out on His Only Begotten Son., and when this was completed, Jesus said ON THE CROSS, From the CROSS...>>"IT".... is Finished.

And for every born again believer..., this wrath will never find the born again in Eternity, as Jesus was the eternal sacrifice, who satisfied God's Judgement against sin... And "all who call on the name of Jesus".. "As many as will believe" "by faith"... . Jesus has died under the wrath of God, for THEM, or for YOU, Reader, if you are born again.

Whereas, Unbelievers, never born again.... are still under that eternal Wrath.

John 3:36

 

[Aunty Jane]

Who wouldn't want to be in the presence of absolute love?

Those who hate God and despise any kind of restraint to their carnal wants….they do not know the love of God and do not want to know it. They serve God’s adversary openly and happily.

Would you want to share life with those people? Who could look forward to such a life? Why would it be any different to the one we have now? We are who we are….God knows if we have the capacity for change….but more importantly, what motivates it.

The church has twisted that around to picture God as a being of angry burning wrath for
the hatred of humankind that doesn't measure up to his requirements and never will.

That is not true….your “either or” presentation leaves out the truth…..the church has most assuredly twisted things to picture God as a tyrant who happily tortures souls for all eternity……but he does not hate humankind at all, but in order to protect his obedient children among the disobedient masses, he must take away the element that robs them of peace, security and happiness to restore paradise to this earth.

Isn’t this why the law has to incarcerate criminals away from the population…to stop them from continuing their wicked ways……yet no matter how many are in prison, crime never stops! Satan is breeding a whole new crop of disobedient humans who will oppose the love and goodness that God wants his children to manifest. Think of all the Bible examples of those servants of God who suffered because of the evil ones.

That suffering is to cease and God’s will is to be “done on earth as it is in heaven”…..but because of free will, we have to prove ourselves worthy first. We have to “conquer the evil with good”….because, if we allow the evil to conquer us, then we will have no place in God’s kingdom. That is a choice we must make ourselves without God’s interference. He fives us guidance and instructions but these will benefit us only if we implement them.

It helps to view the father of the prodigal as example.

Luke 15:20 NIV
... “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him
and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son,
threw his arms around him and kissed him.

What you are leaving out is the whole point of the parable…..the fact that the disobedient son squandered his whole inheritance living a debauched life, only to find that when the money ran out so did his so called friends….destitute and defeated, only then did he realize how well off he had been to live in his generous father’s house…..so he determined to go home, not as the father’s privileged son, but as one of his hired workers, for at least then he would have food and lodging, not expecting for a moment that he could gain his father’s forgiveness. It was the son’s downcast demeanor and humility that prompted the father’s compassion….and to see his son from a long way off and run to meet him.

This is a two way street….we have to do our part if we want God to do his…

 

[MatthewG]

This is a mindset problem. IMHO
Who wouldn't want to be in the presence of absolute love?

The church has twisted that around to picture God as a being of angry burning wrath for
the hatred of humankind that doesn't measure up to his requirements and never will.

It helps to view the father of the prodigal as example.

Luke 15:20 NIV
... “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him
and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son,
threw his arms around him and kissed him.

[

The problem lies with eschewing the words of the Bible as though it’s for us today. That’s what the biggest problem is, eschatology without proper eschatology; it’s a wild horse.

 

[Aunty Jane]

When Jesus asked His Father to be released from The Cross,..... 'if it is possible"... "Let this CUP, pass from me"..

The "Cup" = is the just judgement of Holy God against the sin of the world, that Christ CHOSE to accept upon Himself.

Again you miss the point of Jesus asking for this….what was the “cup” that Jesus willingly accepted in the beginning, that troubled him so much at the end?
Was it the death he knew must take place to atone for the sins of mankind?…..or was it something that tore at his heart even more than his own death?

He was to be executed as a blasphemer…..something that tormented him…..a charge he had denied, but one the Jews had orchestrated with Pilate as an excuse to have him put to death. This is the cup he was having trouble with…this is what he didn’t want. But he acceded to his Father’s will, putting his own will aside.

And God's judgement : "the Cup".. poured out on Jesus, who bore all our sin.... = the Sacrifice of Jesus.....
God's Justified WRATH against sin, was literally poured out on His Only Begotten Son., and when this was completed, Jesus said ON THE CROSS, From the CROSS...>>"IT".... is Finished.

Yes, but what was “finished”? His mission was completed, the ransom was paid, and obedient mankind were now free of the Law……not the principles of the Law, but from the enumerable rules that it contained to test their obedience and to show them that no law of God was stronger than the sin that was in them. Without Christ’s sacrifice, the Law would have gone on condemning them. For those Jews who still cling to the Law, it condemns them to this day.

Even though the ransom was paid 2000 years ago, the human race is still suffering and dying from the effects of Adam’s sin…..Do you know why?

And for every born again believer..., this wrath will never find the born again in Eternity, as Jesus was the eternal sacrifice, who satisfied God's Judgement against sin... And "all who call on the name of Jesus".. "As many as will believe" "by faith"... . Jesus has died under the wrath of God, for THEM, or for YOU, Reader, if you are born again.

Whereas, Unbelievers, never born again.... are still under that eternal Wrath.

You “born again” people are so blind, thinking that all must experience this very unique choosing that only a relative few were to be granted. It is not a gift that one can assume just by “believing” that they are “born again”…….because it’s “what“ you believe that counts…not just “that” you believe. If all the “born again” folk have differing beliefs, it is proof that God’s spirit is not among them. The spirit promotes unity of thought and belief….not division. (1 Cor 1:10)

Tell us what being “born again” actually means...and why it was necessary….

The spirit of God does not give one person a belief that is different to another….all must be on the same page. Your particular page seems to be out on a lonely limb….exclusive to the point where you seem happy to consign any who disagree with you to “hell”….a place that in Scripture does not even exist as Christendom teaches it….and is overseen by a god who more resembles the devil than the loving God and Father of Jesus Christ.

John 3:36

“The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.”

Everything hinges on obedience to the Christ…..in everything.
Who among mankind even knows what is required of a servant of God? They are so engaged in saving themselves that they have lost sight of what is really important….offering salvation to others by teaching them the truth…..so what truth is this? How does one discern the truth amid all the satanic lies that the devil has planted as “weeds” among the “wheat”?

That is for God alone to direct. (John 6:44) He is the reader of hearts and only he can reveal his truth to those whose hearts are not already corrupted. A closed heart is already the devil’s property.
Only God can invite a person…..and introduce his son to a sincere believer, who has an open, uncorrupted heart. (John 6:65) Like the Boereans of the first century, they were open to Paul’s teachings…..but tested them out by “examining the scriptures daily” to make sure that what he was teaching them was the truth.

Only those who truly “know the only true God AND the one he sent”, will gain “everlasting life”. (John 17:3)

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Is your faith defined by what you DON'T believe? - The anti-doctrinal stance

[

 

[Guestman]

- What is heaven?

- Is that where we go when we die?

- Do unbelievers go to hell instead?

- Will there still be a heaven during the Millennium?

- Will there still be a heaven after the new heavens and earth are created?

[

Part 1:
What is the purpose for those who go to "heaven" ? To bring to completion God's everlasting purpose of a paradise earth for "meek" ones (Matt 5:5), that was momentarily "upset" when the rebellion occurred in the garden of Eden ("Eden", meaning "pleasure") some 6,000 years ago.(Gen 3:1-6)

Immediately upon the first human couple proving disobedient to God's command to not eat from "the tree of knowledge of good and bad", that established his right to set moral boundaries for mankind and the first of many he would establish (Gen 2:16, 17; 3:6), God then made arrangements to "repair the damage" by means of a symbolic "woman" and her "offspring".(Gen 3:15)

This symbolic "woman" and her "offspring" is seen several times in the Bible "book" of Isaiah (chpts 49, 54, 60, 62, 66) and Jesus spoke of "her" at John 6:44, 45, saying: "No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. It is written in the Prophets (at Isa 54:13): ‘They will all be taught by Jehovah (God's name, see Isa 12:2; 26:4, KJV).’ Everyone who has listened to the Father and has learned comes to me."

This same "woman" is seen at Revelation 12, that is bathed in spiritual "light" and gives birth to "a son, a male, who is to shepherd the nations with an iron rod" or destroy them.(Rev 12:1-5) This "son, a male" is NOT Jesus Christ per se.

For just as the "woman" is symbolic, and does NOT represent a literal woman, but rather the body of loyal angels that produces its first "offspring" from among themselves, Jesus Christ, likewise of "a son, a male", that represents God's heavenly Kingdom and is composed of 144,001 members, with Jesus as its "chief cornerstone" (Matt 21:43), as its "top stone".(Zech 4:7)

The nation of fleshly Israel had the "golden opportunity" of solely making up God's heavenly Kingdom, of being Jehovah's "special property, a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" (Ex 19:5, 6), but failed "the litmus test", and became apostate, so that Jehovah invited Gentiles "into the olive tree" as "wild olives" (Rom 11:17), and became among the imperfect "declared righteous" ones (Rom 3:24) that are ' sealed (or anointed)......with the promised holy spirit".(Eph 1:13), as "chosen ones" (Matt 24:22, 24, 31; Rom 11:11, 12), with Cornelius and his family being the first Gentiles chosen.(Acts 10)

By the time Jesus arrived in 29 C.E. as "the messenger of the (new) covenant" (Mal 3:1), the nation of fleshly Israel was "beyond healing" (see 2 Chron 36:16), so that he told the Pharisees that "the Kingdom of God will be TAKEN FROM YOU and give to (or replaced with) a (new, spiritual) nation producing its fruit (of holy conduct, see Isa 2:2-4)".(Matt 21:42, 43; 23:33, 37-39) Only a few fleshly Jews has "exercised faith" in Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah, as "the Christ of God".(Luke 9:20; see also Isa 10:21, 22)

 

[Guestman]

Part 2:
Revelation 5:9, 10 says: "And they ("the 24 elders", Rev 4:4, the 144,000 anointed ones or ones set apart as Jehovah's "special property", Mal 3:17; Rev 7:4; 14:1) sing a new song, saying: “You (Jesus Christ) are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation (Jews and Gentiles), and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings OVER the earth.”

So, the first thing that the fully operational God's Kingdom will do, when the 144,000 "chosen ones", who are "declared righteous" (Rom 3:24), are resurrected (and NOT "raptured") as immortal spirit" sons of God" (1 Cor 15:53), is seen at Daniel 2:44:

"In the days of those kings (or when the 7th and last world power of "the feet and toes of iron mixed with clay", Dan 2:33, the Anglo/American world power,with the United States taking center stage on the world scene, see Rev 17:9, 10) the God of heaven will set up a kingdom (in 1914 C.E., see Dan 7:13, 14; Rev 6:1, 2) that will never be destroyed."

"And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will CRUSH (to death) and put an end to all these kingdoms (or the entire political system with its some 8 billion supporters), and it alone will stand forever."

When God's Kingdom has fully accomplished everything it is designed to do, of removing all wickedness (Rev 19:11-21; 20 7-10), all its enemies, and then transforming the earth into a paradise during Jesus Millennial reign for "meek" ones to enjoy forever (Rev 20:4-6; 22:1-3; Ps 37:11, 29; Matt 5:5; Rev 21:3-5), as he intended when he created the first human couple (Gen 1:26-31), then "next, the end, when he (Jesus Christ) hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power (that was in opposition to Jehovah's sovereignty)."

"For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One (Jehovah God) who subjected all things to him."

"But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son (Jesus Christ) himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone."(1 Cor 15:24-28)

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

No puppies and kittens in heaven? - Why not?

[