We are judged by works, not by faith

[CadyandZoe]

1 Corinthians 2:1
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God
1 Corinthians 3:1
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
Was he not talking to that church at Corinth? I didn't see that part where it was only to some 'ministers of the gospel' like Apollos? Are we not all supposed to be ministers of the gospel?

Is Paul referring to all believers or specifically those who were called by Christ to build his church? In his comparison of himself to Apollos, Paul appears to be discussing the builders within the body of Christ and their task of building the church.

There is a common misunderstanding that Paul's focus in this passage is on the everyday life of believers. Unfortunately, this misconception has led some to believe that our good deeds can earn rewards even though they cannot earn salvation. This interpretation is incorrect when considering Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians.

People who show kindness and perform acts of mercy should be acknowledged, but these actions alone do not contribute to the building of a church community. Providing water to a thirsty person is an act of love and compassion, but it does not constitute as building a church. Paul's discussion is focused on the works that are involved in constructing a church.

When Paul mentions "every man", it should be viewed in the context of an argument. Essentially, "every man" refers to all those who are called to be church builders. It is important for each individual who is called to this role to be mindful of how they build on the foundation that Paul has laid.

Furthermore, this passage does not imply that believers earn rewards because Paul's analogy shows two individuals working together towards the same goal. Initially, Paul portrays himself as the planter and Apollos as the waterer. Later, Paul becomes the foundation builder while Apollos constructs on top of the foundation. In both cases, two individuals work together to achieve the reward of a church that is full of believers who endure trials of faith.

 

[dad]

I think this passage is telling us that we are all building on the foundation, that we are building the temple - the church - but with what? Do we edify each other, or tear each other down? Do we build with truth or with something else?

Yes. The Chief Cornerstone. He is our rock and salvation and foundation that our faith rests on and nothing else. When Jesus spoke to Peter, He told Him, that upon this foundation (the fact that He was Christ) will He build His church.

Either we are building up someone in their spirit, or in their flesh, depending on what materials we are using, that is, what we are doing. As you say, our works.

We build after being saved. Whatever we do (or build) it is on the foundation of Jesus. So, in your example, if we build some folks up, that is building on the foundation we are saved on. All works are built on this foundation when we are saved.

If we build them in their spirit, then when they are transformed, those things remain, being of the Spirit. If we are building them in their flesh, that is gone, being transformed into incorruptibility.

What you do to them, it is part of what your works are, which all are built on the foundation of Jesus.

Paul's crown of rejoicing is to see them in the presence of Jesus Christ when He comes.

Certainly something we will rejoice about.

When we see the real spiritual works wrought in others through our obedience, resulting in a better resurrection for those whom we love, how shall we describe such joy?

As part of the works that will not be burned!

And our obedient sacrifice to serve others in such ways results in our own better resurrection. And as we submit ourselves one to another, we can all share in this work with, in, and for each other.

Much love!

All great stuff. All works built upon our foundation of Jesus after we are saved are part of what He will reward us on later.

 

[Brakelite]

In discussions such as this, we may detect varying nuances of belief, that lead to extreme positions outside of biblical teachings. There are ditches on both sides of the truth. On one side, we have those who insist on works in order to achieve salvation. This is the Catholic legalistic beliefs that if studied deeply sufficiently, reveal the sacrifice and atonement is nullified. The other ditch is reserved for those who believe that works are indeed the fruit of being saved by faith, but excuse wilful sin, even a life turned over to wickedness, because the sinner has at one time confessed faith in Jesus, and his few good works outweigh the evil of his bad works. This also is therefore salvation by works. Both extremes discount the need, the absolute essential condition for salvation, and that is to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ. That clothing is not a cloak for sin, it is a lifestyle dedicated and consecrated to a life of obedience, holiness and virtue. I think though that would be a step too far for many. They want to retain their bad habits, and use Calvary and the Saviour as a handy get of jail free card grazing in the back paddock, just as Israel did with their lambs.

"If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17.
A person may not be able to tell the exact time or place, or trace all the chain of circumstances in the process of conversion; but this does not prove him to be unconverted. Christ said to Nicodemus, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8. Like the wind, which is invisible, yet the effects of which are plainly seen and felt, is the Spirit of God in its work upon the human heart. That regenerating power, which no human eye can see, begets a new life in the soul; it creates a new being in the image of God. While the work of the Spirit is silent and imperceptible, its effects are manifest.
If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact.
While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us. A change will be seen in the character, the habits, the pursuits. The contrast will be clear and decided between what they have been and what they are. The character is revealed, not by occasional good deeds and occasional misdeeds, but by the tendency of the habitual words and acts.
Who has the heart? With whom are our thoughts? Of whom do we love to converse? Who has our warmest affections and our best energies? If we are Christ's, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him. All we have and are is consecrated to Him. We long to bear His image, breathe His spirit, do His will, and please Him in all things.

 

[Brakelite]

I don't see the word "imparted" in Matthew 5:6. I do see the word "imputes" or "imputed" in scripture. (Romans 4:6, 11, 23, 24; 5:13)

How can a believer be filled with imputed righteousness?

 

[mailmandan]

How can a believer be filled with imputed righteousness?

I'm not following your logic.

 

[Marymog]

If ghada agrees with James, then He makes Paul a Liar. I know what James is declaring and it is not in contradiction with being justified by faith alone.

I don't understand your rationale but I digress.....

 

[Marymog]

So you are implying that I am cherry picking.

I say what Scripture says that being saved by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus produces good works which justifies our faith.

Before we can do righteousness we must become righteous and Jessus is our righteousness.

Hey Ronald,

An atheist can do good works . On the other hand a person with faith in the finished work of Jesus does not necessarily produce good works. Faith does not automatically produce works. That is why Scripture gives the WARNING, "faith without works is dead".

Paul also said that God will render to each one according to his deeds!! He did not say that God will render to each one according to his faith.

If I understand you correctly it sounds like you are calling Paul a liar. But I may be misunderstanding you.

 

[Brakelite]

I'm not following your logic.

That you can't follow my logic actually answers the question. One cannot be filled with imputed righteousness. It's a 'book entry'. An accounting issue where God looks upon us as if we had never sinned. That's wonderful, and we can certainly be filled with the joy that comes from accepting and believing such a transaction... But I do not see how Jesus's promise in Matthew 5:6 can be fulfilled with imputed righteousness... Only imparted righteousness.

 

[mailmandan]

That you can't follow my logic actually answers the question. One cannot be filled with imputed righteousness. It's a 'book entry'. An accounting issue where God looks upon us as if we had never sinned. That's wonderful, and we can certainly be filled with the joy that comes from accepting and believing such a transaction... But I do not see how Jesus's promise in Matthew 5:6 can be fulfilled with imputed righteousness... Only imparted righteousness.

Now I understand your point. Jesus' promise is not automatically fulfilled by being accounted as righteous. Good works follow imputed righteousness. I still don't see that as imparted righteousness but at least we are not in complete disagreement here.

 

[Brakelite]

Now I understand your point. Jesus' promise is not automatically fulfilled by being accounted as righteous. Good works follow imputed righteousness. I still don't see that as imparted righteousness but at least we are not in complete disagreement here.

The way I see this debate, which can get very complicated and far too wordy, can be boiled down to just 2 sentences.
The righteousness by which we are justified is imputed; this was enacted by Christ through His shedding of blood: the righteousness by which we are sanctified is imparted; this is through the ongoing ministry of Christ as our High Priest and Mediator in the heavenly sanctuary. The first, Calvary, our redemption, is our title to heaven, being made children of God through adoption, the second, through the intercession of Christ and the work of the holy Spirit throughout our lives, is our fitness for heaven.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't understand your rationale but I digress.....

James specifically wrote :

James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

and Paul wrote:

Romans 5

King James Version

​

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

On the surface these are diametrically opposite to each other. I say that it is ghada who is misunderstanding what James is writing on.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hey Ronald,

An atheist can do good works . On the other hand a person with faith in the finished work of Jesus does not necessarily produce good works. Faith does not automatically produce works. That is why Scripture gives the WARNING, "faith without works is dead".

Paul also said that God will render to each one according to his deeds!! He did not say that God will render to each one according to his faith.

If I understand you correctly it sounds like you are calling Paul a liar. But I may be misunderstanding you.

An atheist cannot produce works God defines as "good" Roman, Isaiah prove that absolutely.

Only one who has been justified and saved by faith in Jesus alone to save them is capable of producing works god approves of.

As far as deeds go- you are misunderstanding that people are saved through faith in Jesus alone.

Both saved and unsaved will have their works judged. For the saved it will be for level of rewards and for the unsaved it will be for level of eternal punishment.

All who are born again will not face the great white throne but the bema judgment. All un-Born again will be condemned at the Great white throne and their level of punishment determined by their deeds and knowledge.

 

[Ghada]

@dad tell me do you ever sin?

I've certainly sinned and was even double minded for a season as a Christians. I'm not sinning now today, and am overcoming temptation to keep it that way. And tomorrow may never come.

Look at the law of Moses and its apparent.

Why? Christians ought not have anything to with the law of Moses, unless some of it is also written in the law of Christ. And some is, but not all.

But Christ through me doesn't sin, when I walk by the spirit.

True. Neither do we, since it is Christ doing the deeds with us. We only know Jesus and Jesus knows us, when we are doing His will together.

All else is only filthy rags of man's own righteous will.

 

[Ghada]

Let's get this straight. Anyone that hasn't met someone that is perfect has not done so because they don't get out enough and meet the right people!?

Not necessarily. Only in your case when you have judged that no man is righteous, because you are not, and anyone you may have met doing righteousness of God, you disbelieve. And you're not seeking anyone righteous, as Diogenes of Athens, because you don't want to meet them, except to find fault.

Seriously? Then you toss in a random verse about how believers see stuff after they are saved!

It doesn't matter what verses I toss in. You've already shown you never accept anything you don't already like. Just as here. You don't care about the legitimacy of the verse and argument, and so you just toss it out.

I still like to toss the truth of the Bible in, because I love it, and it's good exhortation for myself, if not for others.

Only the lovers of the truth of God, can be doers of the truth, and only doers come to the light Christ to be justified by Him. (John 3:19-21) More verses tossed in for good measure.

 

[Ghada]

So Jesus was wrong commanding us to forgive people? (If none had ever sinned or trespassed no forgiveness could be needed)

Not if they don't repent, even as God does not forgive the unrepentant.

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

In the Bible we repent and then believe His gospel for forgiveness of all past sins.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

You're unrepentant forgiveness and salvation is not the Bible. I'm quite sure you've already forgiven any and all sinning you will continue to do unto the grave.

Everyone here is not perfect!

And that goes double and even triple for you! Halleluiah!!

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, unthankful, unholy,

Your unbelief in the righteousness of God by Jesus Christ has already been duly noted.

Not because I met them, but because the bible says so.

You're Bible by unbelief says so. You preach a gospel of unrepentance and unbelief to be saved and justified in this life. Only the Bible gospel of repent and believe and obey Him endures beyond the grave.

Not sure what you are saying? What has that got to do with what works the poor guy had?

That's only because you don't believe the Bible justification by works. Therefore, you think Jesus justified him based solely upon beating his breast, and rightly saying what a sinner he was.

That's your kind of justification for yourself without repentance. It's not Jesus' in the Bible.

That doesn't mean all things believers do is filthy rags by any perverted stretch of the imagination.

You've shown you have no clue what you are saying anymore. First you brag about how your works are filthy rags, and now you say that does not mean your works are filthy rags by any perverted stretch of the imagination.

I am. They are stinkers as well sometimes.

Once again speaking of your fellow Christians as stinkers. If others say it, then you're offended. I guess we can call our own fellow Christians stinkers, but no one else.

How about Noah? They guy got sloshed soon as he got off the boat! And God had just found him to be the most righteous person on the planet!

Not while getting drunk. The results of which were the cursing of Ham that gave rise to several nations hating the God of Israel and His people.

You thank God you are not as other sinners. I see.

I do thank I God I have never believed an unbiblical gospel like you, to justify being double minded with filthy rags for life.

Your testimony and doctrine both say you do not believe with the heart unto the righteousness of God, but only unto the unrighteousness of your own making.

Yes, we try to be like Him. Sometimes we even succeed somewhat. Some more than others.

The gospel of the double hearted for life, as though Paul was rejoicing in the Lord for being justified anyway in Romans 7. He rejoiced int he Lord delivering him from being double of heart (7:24-25), and becoming single and pure hearted in Romans 8.

Remaining double hearted to the grave doesn't automatically mean that you've can't be saved at your death. But it is a Russian-roulette with the soul. If you die doing God's will through Jesus Christ, then we are in the presence of the Lord. But if we die sinning apart from Christ, we are in hell.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

This is the Bible you disbelieve. You not believe it is possible to live holy in all manner of life, but only at times in part. Which is your gospel of double heartedness for life.

Like He did you eh? You really think anyone buys that?

No, not all Christians believe all the words of the Bible. You openly say you don't believe in ever being newborn with all things now being of God. You have your own 'less sinful' doctrine and conversion. You reject the sinless conversion of Jesus Christ, because you still want to enjoy some more pleasure in sinning from time to time at your choosing.

Which is perfectly fine with me once again. That matters nothing to me. It's just all about the Bible vs other Christians doctrines and gospels. Only the pure conversion of Jesus Christ in the end, endures beyond the grave.

Those thing are in me!

The gospel of faith alone is not the Bible and never is the Bible. If these things be in us by adding them to our faith and doing them. Your gospel of having something by faith alone without doing the word, is not the Bible.

Sometimes I tend to be a little kinder than other times though.

Exactly. It is your incomplete version of the Bible, where you now want to do better, while still doing worse from time to time.

Your conversion is one of the mind, where now you want to do more good and sin less, but never repent and be sinless like Jesus and walk as He walked.

You have a progressive humanism Christian religion of choosing how much and how little according to your own faith and will. That is why your confession of still having filthy rags is correct.

Sometimes, Like Peter, I am not as patient as I should be. I don't usually deny Jesus all night six ways from Sunday, lying about who I am, and repeatedly denying Him as well as loudly cussing up a storm!

Then just what are the sins you say you still do? Or are you just more moral than before?

Earlier, Peter made it clear that brethren were not perfect!

Not those sinning, of course not. And that certainly applies to you. I get that from you ad nauseum. And at one time it also applied to me.

However your personal gospel of never being perfect and whole hearted with God, is by your own unbelief in the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Bible. And your accusation of all believers continuing to be double minded like you is false and is born of pride in yourself, that no Christians can do what you don't do.

 

[Ghada]

Jesus in us makes us blameless.

So you say by your own beliefs alone. Inward purity with outward blame is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Amen. Your calling requires a certain behavior and standard. Salvation is a gift. As long as you remember the context, this is a great verse. If we try hard and obey we won't stumble and fall.

Then why do you say it is impossible not to fall in this life? You contradict yourself many times. You sound like a Christian that does live blamelessly most of the time, but you need a doctrinal cover for yourself, when you're not.

"and he cannot sin; not that it is impossible for such a man to do acts of sin,

True.

or that it is possible for him to live without sin;

False.

for the words are not to be understood in the sense of those who plead for perfection in this life; for though the saints have perfection in Christ, yet not in themselves; they are not impeccable, they are not free from sin, neither from the being nor actings of it; sin is in them, lives in them, dwells in them, hinders all the good, and does all the mischief it can: or in such sense, as if the sins of believers were not sins; for though they are pardoned and expiated, and they are justified from them, yet they do not cease to be sins; they are equally contrary to the nature, will, and law of God, as well as the sins of others; and are oftentimes attended with more aggravated circumstances, and which God in a fatherly way takes notice of, and chastises for, and on the account of which he hides his face from them: nor does the phrase intend any particular single sin, which cannot be committed; though there are such, as sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, or denying Christ to be the Saviour of sinners, and a sacrifice for sin, and hatred of a Christian brother as such, and sinning the sin unto death, or the unpardonable sin; neither of which can be committed by a regenerate man: nor is the meaning only, though it is a sense that will very well bear, and agrees with the context, that such persons cannot sin as unregenerate men do; that is, live in a continued course of sinning, and with pleasure, and without reluctance, and so as to lie in it, as the whole world does: but rather the meaning is, he that is born of God, as he is born of God, or that which is born of God in him, the new man, or new creature, cannot sin; for that is pure and holy; there is nothing sinful in it, nor can anything that is sinful come out of it, or be done by it; it is the workmanship of the Holy Spirit of God; it is a good work, and well pleasing: in the sight of God, who is of purer eyes than to behold sin with delight; and an incorruptible seed, which neither corrupts nor is corrupted; and though it is as yet an imperfect work, it is not impure: the reason of the impeccability of the regenerate man, as such, is because he is born of God: for that which is born of God in him, does, under the influence of the Spirit, power, and grace of God, preserve him from the temptations of Satan, the pollutions of the world, and the corruptions of his own heart; see 1 John 5:18; which the Vulgate Latin version there renders, "the generation of God", meaning regeneration, or that which is born of God, "preserveth him": this furnishes out a considerable argument for the perseverance of the saints. "

1 John 3:9 - KJV - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:9 - King James Version - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

www.studylight.org

And now the large intricately-detailed explanation for why he does not believe unto the righteousness of God, nor walking as Jesus walked.

At least he doesn't go Greek, or worse into manuscript arguments.

or this one

"1 John 3:8 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning” Comments - The next verse tells us that a person who is born of God does not commit sin. Thus, within the context of this passage of Scripture 1 John 3:8 refers to a person committing sin as someone who has the same nature as the devil, a person with a sin nature, whose spirit has not been regenerated."

True. Anyone while sinning with the devil is a child of the devil, and not born of God with His divine Spirit and power not to be sinning with the devil.

We are only as saved and born of God as what we are doing at the time, whether doing the work with and through Jesus, or with and through the devil.

He that is committing sin is of the devil.

1 John 3 - Everett's Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 John 3, Everett's Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures, Everett's Study Notes on the Holy Scriptures offer rich insights into biblical understanding through thorough examination and historical context.

www.studylight.org

Not saved in other words!

Exactly. He that is committing sin is of the devil and not born of God.

Not saved. He that is committing sin and believes he is born of God, is saved by his own faith and gospel alone, that is not of the Bible.

We are born again instantly.

Not in your gospel. You change your mind from enjoying sinning as much, to limiting it to less time in your life. That is as far as your immediately repentance goes. You are born again of your own will and conversion, just like any man on earth that decides to turn over a new leaf in life. The only difference between you and other such progressive religions of man, is that you name the name of Christ and call it Christianity.

WE don't grow up instantly!

No, but we do not grow in grace and knowing Jesus the Lord, while still sinning from the past. Your incomplete repentance and conversion is simply not ever the newborn perfect conversion of Jesus Christ, where all things are now new and of God.

By your own testimony and doctrine, you are never now with all things in life being of God. You do not ever believe in being perfectly pure hearted with God, nor walking blameless in spirit and the flesh with Jesus.

It was the works the 'perfect' Pharisees did. (at least pretended to do!)

It was the works of their own law and righteousness, that they sought to do perfectly. Theirs were filthy rags also.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness of the newborn in Jesus Christ, is inward purity first, and also righteousness according to His rule, not our own.

This is what you reject as never being possible for yourself, and declare no other Christian can do all things in life through Christ either.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

This is how your Paul of your gospel, is not the apostle Paul of the Bible.

It is not a ticket to hell when we drop a plate or have a fender bender etc.

Once again you contradict yourself by claiming filthy rags in your life, and yet you do not speak of any sinning you do.

You have no idea how anyone lives.

I can read your words and testimony and take them at face value. What I am seeing is a Christian that preaches against walking blameless as Jesus walked, and yet whenever you give an example of sinning, it's not sin in the Bible.

What I will mock is someone disgracing the name of Jesus by pretending they were not sinners and needed Him to save us.

Your purposed changing of what others teach proves a corrupt heart, that cannot be pure with Jesus Christ nor His doctrine in the Bible.

They make the cross of Christ to no effect.

By not taking up our cross, we make the cross of Jesus of none effect to us.

 

[dad]

Not necessarily. Only in your case when you have judged that no man is righteous, because you are not, and anyone you may have met doing righteousness of God, you disbelieve.

Jesus makes us righteous, not our works. You slandering the saved by calling them 'not righteous'. Why? Because you imagine yorself to have some mysterious secret unpostable good works. Seriously?

And you're not seeking anyone righteous, as Diogenes of Athens, because you don't want to meet them, except to find fault.

I avoid people who think they are good actually like I avoid outhouses as a general rule unless unavoidable.

It doesn't matter what verses I toss in. You've already shown you never accept anything you don't already like. Just as here. You don't care about the legitimacy of the verse and argument, and so you just toss it out.

Misapplied verses that you cannot discuss and admit you took out of context are not something that support you by any stretch of the imagination.

I still like to toss the truth of the Bible in, because I love it, and it's good exhortation for myself, if not for others.

We add that to your pretense list I guess

Only the lovers of the truth of God, can be doers of the truth, and only doers come to the light Christ to be justified by Him. (John 3:19-21) More verses tossed in for good measure.

Tell us how you are a doer of truth any more than the next believer? Or are we just to take your word you are far more perfect and holy and sinless than us?

 

[dad]

Not if they don't repent, even as God does not forgive the unrepentant.

If they sin against you seventy times you think they fell down on their knees before you and repented each time? The point is that they do sin. They need forgiveness even thought saved. So how it is you do not?

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

In the Bible we repent and then believe His gospel for forgiveness of all past sins.

A brother is someone that already repented! They are not in need of salvation. They are saved and trespassing against you. Not in the past, right now.

Mat 18:
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

Even those who are not brethren are to be forgiven.
1 Peter 3:8-9 that I should “… be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil

You're unrepentant forgiveness and salvation is not the Bible.

Nor anywhere else, you made it up. Better to debate honestly.

I'm quite sure you've already forgiven any and all sinning you will continue to do unto the grave.

God forgives. You apparently think He has nothing to forgive you for!

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

How would you, being perfect and pure and sinless ever confess faults to others??

Your unbelief in the righteousness of God by Jesus Christ has already been duly noted.

I believe in His salvation and it has nothing to do with 'unrighteouness' as you falsely claim. Believing in Jesus has zero to do with believing your foolish tale of being perfect, and no one who sees through that tale does so because they are not righteous!

You're Bible by unbelief says so. You preach a gospel of unrepentance and unbelief to be saved and justified in this life. Only the Bible gospel of repent and believe and obey Him endures beyond the grave.

To be saved we do repent. Again you speak untrue words as has come to be expected from you.

That's only because you don't believe the Bible justification by works.

That is not connected to salvation. And works are not what make us perfect! In His process of making us perfect, works result.

Therefore, you think Jesus justified him based solely upon beating his breast, and rightly saying what a sinner he was.

Jesus knew he was honest and serious. Unlike the guy that thought he was perfect.

. First you brag about how your works are filthy rags, and now you say that does not mean your works are filthy rags by any perverted stretch of the imagination.

No. Works that people bring to God to save them are filthy rags. Works after they get saved are a work of grace.

Not while getting drunk. The results of which were the cursing of Ham that gave rise to several nations hating the God of Israel and His people.

Maybe Ham deserved it? Wasn't that the guy that snuck in and possibly committed some sort of homosexual act on Noah while he was drunk? Noah had already been declared righteous by God and he did not lose that after the flood. Righteous does not mean sinless! Some sins are more serious than others and perhaps righteous Noah knew that and that is why he cursed someone. You see even if Ham was saved, if he commited a sin that was serious, knowing God chastises us, there could be repercussions! (curse that affected life)

I do thank I God I have never believed an unbiblical gospel like you

Lurkers..need we say more!!?
Luke 18:13 But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

, to justify being double minded with filthy rags for life.

Being not yet perfectly pure and unable to trespass in no way means we are double minded. It means we are weak but He is strong.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The guy who cussed up a storm and denied even knowing Jesus admonishes us to be holy. And that is great advice! Amen. Try your best. It is those people who do try that the bible calls brothers. And brothers still need forgiving when they sin against others! Why it it you could not ever need forgiving, being perfect? Did you imagine holy meany never making mistakes and blowing it?

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Yes He does, and for the saved, judging works no longer involves salvation but rewards!

You openly say you don't believe in ever being newborn with all things now being of God.

Try to make your conversation holy, rather than rapid spamming falsehoods! Being saved IS being born again. You just chose to pretend that the things in you that are not yet perfect don't exist!

You reject the sinless conversion of Jesus Christ

How is Jesus mistaken, exactly? He commanded we forgive brothers as needed. You think He was lying or mistaken and that all saved people are suddenly unable to trespass??

The gospel of faith alone is not the Bible and never is the Bible.

There is no other way to be saved actually in the bible! But after that we have works that are not 'faith alone' but actually doing stuff.

Exactly. It is your incomplete version of the Bible, where you now want to do better, while still doing worse from time to time.

Not only does He forgive us, He commands other brethren to! You want to pretend you are perfect already and have no need of a physician. First we must know we are sinners and come to Him to be saved and forgiven. Then we also must forgive others and be forgiven for things that have nothing to do with salvation.

You have a progressive humanism Christian religion of choosing how much and how little according to your own faith and will.

No I have a believe in Jesus religion! Some will be rewarded much and others little. Nothing to do with gaining/regaining or losing our salvation. There is no on again off again salvation.

Then just what are the sins you say you still do?

Not me, all believers! It is not a one size fits all. Whatever mistakes a believer happens to make is not what determines their forgiveness. Nor do all make the same mistakes or the same trespasses.

However your personal gospel of never being perfect and whole hearted with God,

Another in the unending flow of utterly false statements from you. No matter how whole hearted believers are they still need to forgive and be forgiven! (aside from being saved which is a one time thing)

 

[dad]

Inward purity with outward blame is not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Not yet being perfect and still trespassing sometimes is not outward blame. But pretending you don't is a shame.

Then why do you say it is impossible not to fall in this life?

I said we fall and get back up. If you are thinking about falling from salvation, forget about it!

True. Anyone while sinning with the devil is a child of the devil,

Believers who are saved and trespass are not sinning with the devil! They are stinkers enough on their own. But Jesus did point out that Peter was being a mouthpiece for Satan one time.

We are only as saved and born of God as what we are doing at the time,

So if a brother, as Jesus said is trespassing against me at this time, they are not saved any more!? Do you think before you post?

Exactly. He that is committing sin is of the devil and not born of God.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So when we see John talk of those committing sin being of the devil, we know the context!

"From what John had already stated in 1 John 1, we know that he had no intention here of contradicting himself with any teaching to the effect any one having committed sin was in no sense a Christian. Many of the scholars assure us, based upon the Greek verbs used here, that "sinneth" in this context means "leads a life of sin."

1 John 3 - Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 John 3, Coffman's Commentaries on the Bible, James Burton Coffman's commentary on the Bible is widely regarded for its thorough analysis of the text and practical application to everyday life. It remains a valuable resource for Christians seeking a deeper understanding of the Scriptures.

www.studylight.org

Not in your gospel. You change your mind from enjoying sinning as much

Sons of God do not enjoy sin, they feel bad about it. The prodigal son did not enjoy his sin spree.

You are born again of your own will and conversion, just like any man on earth that decides to turn over a new leaf in life.

False once again. Being saved is not some work of turning over a leaf. It is God turning your whole life around and changing you. Like a baby being born, that is not a baby turning over anything! That is a doctor turning the baby over and whacking it to see if it cries.

No, but we do not grow in grace and knowing Jesus the Lord, while still sinning from the past.

After being born of the spirit, saved, we are not sinning from the past! Whatever mistakes and blow its and trespasses we may do are present.

Your incomplete repentance and conversion is simply not ever the newborn perfect conversion of Jesus Christ

He saves us we do not save and convert ourselves. Don't accuse God of not converting us properly. Having trespasses still is part of that. This is why He Himself points out we need for forgive and be forgiven.

By your own testimony and doctrine, you are never now with all things in life being of God.

False! Trials are of God! Testings. Chastisements for doing wrong! You seem to think if you don't pretend to already be perfect you couldn't be from God.

Your purposed changing of what others teach proves a corrupt heart,

Not when true! That is reproving, and correcting and teaching.

By not taking up our cross, we make the cross of Jesus of none effect to us.

Taking up the things He has for us to bear has zero to do with pretending you are sinless.

 

[MatthewG]

may God judge in the end. Those who are of him will love, ans worship on spirit and truth.