The Time is Fulfilled

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, but at the same time God so loved the entire world that he sent his Son. He has Gentile Sheep also that he must bring once the New cov had been confirmed to Israel in 70 weeks by the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit. Both Messiah and his Disciples had this anointing which confirmed the New cov for the full 70th week.

thats fine, But that is not what Daniel 9 is about.. Start in the first cerse and read. If you need background, read lev 26, it explains what Daniel is doing

Israel or anyone else will never end their own sins. Jesus blood brings atonement for the sins of the whole world through repentance once and for all.

The sins that daniel is talking about is the sins of adultry. Worshiping foreign Gods.

Not regular sin. Again, ready the context.. No one said all sin would be eradicated or stopped. That will nto happen until this world is gone and we are ressurected.

 

[jeffweeder]

thats fine, But that is not what Daniel 9 is about.. Start in the first cerse and read. If you need background, read lev 26, it explains what Daniel is doing

The sins that daniel is talking about is the sins of adultry. Worshiping foreign Gods.

Not regular sin. Again, ready the context.. No one said all sin would be eradicated or stopped. That will nto happen until this world is gone and we are ressurected.

Sorry, but you ignore the context.
You should read from verse 1 and note these verses...,


5 we have sinned and committed wrong, and have behaved wickedly and have rebelled, turning away from Your commandments and ordinances. 6 Further, we have not listened to and heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings, our princes and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

7 “Righteousness belongs to You, O Lord, but to us confusion and open shame, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to all Israel, those who are nearby and those who are far away, in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the [treacherous] acts of unfaithfulness which they have committed against You. 8 O Lord, to us belong confusion and open shame—to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers—because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and lovingkindness and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against Him; 10 and we have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in His laws which He set before us through His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, even turning aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us and the oath which is written in the Law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against Him.

All of the law and commandments have been broken, not just a few.


James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of [breaking] all of it.



So, the atonement spoken of in Dan 9 covers all sin, iniquity and transgressions born and cleansed by the blood by the anointed Messiah.

The fact that the 70 weeks brings EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, proves that all sins have been covered by the blood of the lamb.

Hebrews 9 further confirms this when it states that when Jesus comes a second time it is not to address sin.


27 And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once and after this [comes certain] judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.


It is finished.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry, but you ignore the context.
You should read from verse 1 and note these verses...,


5 we have sinned and committed wrong, and have behaved wickedly and have rebelled, turning away from Your commandments and ordinances. 6 Further, we have not listened to and heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings, our princes and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

7 “Righteousness belongs to You, O Lord, but to us confusion and open shame, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to all Israel, those who are nearby and those who are far away, in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the [treacherous] acts of unfaithfulness which they have committed against You. 8 O Lord, to us belong confusion and open shame—to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers—because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and lovingkindness and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against Him; 10 and we have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in His laws which He set before us through His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, even turning aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us and the oath which is written in the Law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against Him.

All of the law and commandments have been broken, not just a few.


James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of [breaking] all of it.



So, the atonement spoken of in Dan 9 covers all sin, iniquity and transgressions born and cleansed by the blood by the anointed Messiah.

The fact that the 70 weeks brings EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS, proves that all sins have been covered by the blood of the lamb.

Hebrews 9 further confirms this when it states that when Jesus comes a second time it is not to address sin.


27 And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once and after this [comes certain] judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.


It is finished.

Have you read lev 26?

27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You[g] shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the land shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies’ land;
then the land shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest—
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.
36 ‘And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness[i] into their hearts in the lands of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And those of you who are left shall [j]waste away in their iniquity in your enemies’ lands;
also in their fathers’ iniquities, which are with them, they shall waste away.

sorry but the land promise given to one descendent and allof his sins is an eternal promise..

it is not finished..

 

[jeffweeder]

Have you read lev 26?

Yes absolutely.
This came upon them for not excepting their Messiah and embracing his atonement and his righteousness.

lk 19
43 For a time [of siege] is coming when your enemies will put up a barricade [with pointed stakes] against you, and surround you [with armies] and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground, you [Jerusalem] and your children within you. They will not leave in you one stone on another, all because you did not [come progressively to] recognize [from observation and personal experience] the time of your visitation [when God was gracious toward you and offered you salvation].”



Jesus makes all the difference for the repentant with a blessed hope.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed [gratefully praised and adored] be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant and boundless mercy has caused us to be born again [that is, to be reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] to an ever-living hope and confident assurance through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Titus 2

11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. ​

12 It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age, 13 awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who [willingly] gave Himself [to be crucified] on our behalf to redeem us and purchase our freedom from all wickedness, and to purify for Himself a chosen and very special people to be His own possession, who are enthusiastic for doing what is good.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes absolutely.
This came upon them for not excepting their Messiah and embracing his atonement and his righteousness.

lk 19
43 For a time [of siege] is coming when your enemies will put up a barricade [with pointed stakes] against you, and surround you [with armies] and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground, you [Jerusalem] and your children within you. They will not leave in you one stone on another, all because you did not [come progressively to] recognize [from observation and personal experience] the time of your visitation [when God was gracious toward you and offered you salvation].”



Jesus makes all the difference for the repentant with a blessed hope.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed [gratefully praised and adored] be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant and boundless mercy has caused us to be born again [that is, to be reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] to an ever-living hope and confident assurance through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Titus 2​

​

11 For the [remarkable, undeserved] grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. ​

12 It teaches us to reject ungodliness and worldly (immoral) desires, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives [lives with a purpose that reflect spiritual maturity] in this present age, 13 awaiting and confidently expecting the [fulfillment of our] blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who [willingly] gave Himself [to be crucified] on our behalf to redeem us and purchase our freedom from all wickedness, and to purify for Himself a chosen and very special people to be His own possession, who are enthusiastic for doing what is good.

Either way, 70 ad was the fulfillment of lev 26.

When they repent. Just like lev 26 says, God will remember his covenant with the fathers.. and them.. thats why he has a remnant of them.

and the OT says they will repent..

This is not a salvation issue. It never was.. replacement theology is false. God keeps his promises.

 

[jeffweeder]

Either way, 70 ad was the fulfillment of lev 26.

When they repent. Just like lev 26 says, God will remember his covenant with the fathers.. and them.. thats why he has a remnant of them.

and the OT says they will repent..

This is not a salvation issue. It never was.. replacement theology is false. God keeps his promises.

The old cov is replaced with the new, but the shepherd remains the same.

Jn 10
14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The old cov is replaced with the new, but the shepherd remains the same.

Jn 10
14 I am the Good Shepherd, and I know [without any doubt those who are] My own and My own know Me [and have a deep, personal relationship with Me]— 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.

16 I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring those also, and they will listen to My voice and pay attention to My call, and they will become one flock with one Shepherd.

Gods promise to Israel was an eternal promise

Eternity does not end..

If God is done with them, we have no guarantee.. we have no hope.. so forget about having real faith

 

[jeffweeder]

Gods promise to Israel was an eternal promise

Yes, and its realized in Jesus Christ their Messiah

If God is done with them, we have no guarantee.. we have no hope.. so forget about having real faith

I am not saying he is done with them. God planned all along that Jesus would be the answer to their prayers and the one they have been waiting for...the one promised them in the OT. Those of Israel who believed became the Church, possessing much greater promises. They understood that the Lords kingdom was not of this fallen world and they looked for the restoration of all things on a NHNE.

Thanks for the dialogue.

 

[strepho]

Revelation chapter 9. Time was shortened to 5 month period. Satan as antichrist has 5 month period. Mark chapter 13, Jesus shortened the time for the Elect sakes.

 

[Davy]

Someone brought this up in another forum. The poster was saying the “time fulfilled” in Mark 1:15 was Daniel’s 69 weeks.

I don’t think I agree with that but I thought it would make for good discussion here.

What are your thoughts on what time this is referring to?

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mark 1:15 is simply about The Gospel going to the Jews first in Jerusalem-Judea. If... the Jews there had accepted Jesus of Nazareth as KING, then His Kingdom would have been established 'literally', at that time on earth.

But the majority of Jews there rejected Lord Jesus, and followed the evil desires of the false Jews who were foreigners that had crept in, placing their agents among the crowd to stir them up to yell, "Crucify Him!".

Thus Christ's literal Kingdom on this earth in Jerusalem came into abeyance (delay). The Gospel was then taken to the Gentiles.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Someone brought this up in another forum. The poster was saying the “time fulfilled” in Mark 1:15 was Daniel’s 69 weeks.

I don’t think I agree with that but I thought it would make for good discussion here.

What are your thoughts on what time this is referring to?

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

The poster's suggestion sounds plausible to me, so I wouldn't reject it out of hand. What other prophet gives a time reference?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hi there.
I believe the 70th week was at hand.

7and 62 weeks until Messiah ....

Dan 9
25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it will be built again, with [a city] plaza and moat, even in times of trouble.



...and then the final week where Jesus would go to the cross, giving us the Gospel that would save people of all nations.


24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God), to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

The problem with this analysis is that Daniel 9 doesn't speak about the kingdom of God. What about Daniel 7?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jeff if Mark is pointing to the 70th week being at hand, which I think I agree with, wouldn't that make the completion of the 70th week 7 years after Jesus' statement in Mark?

I don't follow the 70 week of years interpretation so I may be reckoning that wrong.

Yes, I think that is correct. The 70th week seems to have begun at the baptism of Jesus.

 

[CadyandZoe]

thats fine, But that is not what Daniel 9 is about.. Start in the first cerse and read. If you need background, read lev 26, it explains what Daniel is doing

The sins that daniel is talking about is the sins of adultry. Worshiping foreign Gods.

Not regular sin. Again, ready the context.. No one said all sin would be eradicated or stopped. That will nto happen until this world is gone and we are ressurected.

Did you mean adultery or idolatry? I suppose it amounts to the same thing in the case of Israel's relationship to God. :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, and its realized in Jesus Christ their Messiah

No

He promised them LAND, and peace in that land. NOT salvation.

that is a different promise and was given to all the world..

I am not saying he is done with them. God planned all along that Jesus would be the answer to their prayers and the one they have been waiting for...the one promised them in the OT. Those of Israel who believed became the Church, possessing much greater promises. They understood that the Lords kingdom was not of this fallen world and they looked for the restoration of all things on a NHNE.

Thanks for the dialogue.

Yes you are in reality saying such..

Your trying to make a promise given to them and them only now applicable to every one on earth.

thats called replacement theology

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did you mean adultery or idolatry? I suppose it amounts to the same thing in the case of Israel's relationship to God. :)

They committed adultery with foreign Gods.. Which yes, is the same as idolatry.. but remember, she played with the mother of all harlots.. Babylon..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I think that is correct. The 70th week seems to have begun at the baptism of Jesus.

why do we think this? what OT prophet said the messiah would come as he was baptized?

 

[CadyandZoe]

why do we think this? what OT prophet said the messiah would come as he was baptized?

That's an excellent question. I understand your theory that the Messiah arrived riding on a donkey, as predicted by Zechariah. If Gabriel intended to signify the arrival of the Messiah as an official "coming," then your proposal seems valid. However, it's unclear whether Gabriel meant for us to consider the time from his official coming or from the start of his ministry.

Assuming that Gabriel intended to indicate the time starting from Jesus' public introduction by John the Baptist instead, then the baptism would mark the beginning of the 70th week. According to my understanding, Jesus' baptism denotes the commencement of the 70th week, which is followed by his ministry lasting for approximately three and a half years until his crucifixion in the middle of that week and the 70 weeks concluded with the stoning of Stephan.

After John the Baptist announced the arrival of the Messiah, the latter started proclaiming, "Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand," and performed miracles.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's an excellent question. I understand your theory that the Messiah arrived riding on a donkey, as predicted by Zechariah. If Gabriel intended to signify the arrival of the Messiah as an official "coming," then your proposal seems valid. However, it's unclear whether Gabriel meant for us to consider the time from his official coming or from the start of his ministry.

Assuming that Gabriel intended to indicate the time starting from Jesus' public introduction by John the Baptist instead, then the baptism would mark the beginning of the 70th week. According to my understanding, Jesus' baptism denotes the commencement of the 70th week, which is followed by his ministry lasting for approximately three and a half years until his crucifixion in the middle of that week and the 70 weeks concluded with the stoning of Stephan.

After John the Baptist announced the arrival of the Messiah, the latter started proclaiming, "Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand," and performed miracles.

Do you understand the the OT explained Christ as we know it today as 2 different persons.

one being the messiah and the other being what many call the suffering servant.

And they look nothing alike..

 

[CadyandZoe]

Do you understand the the OT explained Christ as we know it today as 2 different persons.

one being the messiah and the other being what many call the suffering servant.

And they look nothing alike..

I am aware that the Old Testament portrays two different depictions of the Messiah, which may appear somewhat conflicting.

It has been suggested that the Jewish community regards Israel, rather than the messiah, as the suffering servant. This belief may have played a role in the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah by some of his contemporaries. Peter, for instance, once admonished Jesus for suggesting that God might allow his servant to undergo crucifixion (as recounted in Matthew 16:22).

According to Paul, the idea of a suffering messiah was a secret that had been unknown for a long time. This confirms that the concept of a suffering messiah was not widely known or accepted.

What did you have in mind?