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The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Keiw
Well-Known Member
Hebrew scholars say that statement does not translate i am that i am--they are correct. its trinity religions who live by error over fact.
How would you know who are 'Hebrew scholars'? You don't. You constantly makes comments that you can't prove at all!
Keiw
Well-Known Member
That is why God told-YOU-Be like the Bereans and make sure of all things. Its only eternal life on the line for one to serve God in spirit and TRUTH-John 4:22-24) One cannot do that when their bibles are filled with errors.
You like the part where JW's constantly attack the Bible and call it errors and Satanic? Or where they try rewrite nearly every verse in the Bible?
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face2face
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Wrecked, you are best to leave Jack alone...many have him on ignore for the very reason you are finding here. He is an antagonist. Using bad language won't change him, only causes you to sin before your Lord.
F2F
It's not me that upsets you, it's the written Word of God, the Bible.
face2face
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You can't know God apart from the Bible. And you can't pick and choose just the parts you like.
On the contrary.
What I know is not anti-biblical, it is anti-doctrinal. Not all doctrine is good. Right?
Historical evidence proves that the Bible is not inerrant. (free from error) We have to live with that.
Perhaps you need to learn how to eat the meat and spit out the bones. (in reference to doctrine)
Nothing wrong with a healthy skepticism.
To be clear, I love the Bible. I use it every day.
But it's a poor replacement for a relationship with God.
Some Christians worship a god of paper and ink with a leather-bound cover.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I disagree. If they are in conflict, then they aren't Biblical. The Bible speaks with one voice and it never contradicts itself. The entire Bible is self-consistent. The followers of Jesus know this. He tells you, "The Scripture cannot be broken." John 10:35
The followers of Jesus know that universalism is an incorrect and false doctrine.
Parable of Lazarus:
Matthew 16:19-31
Conclusion:
But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Today is the day of salvation. Even so, just as Jesus said, if they don't listen to Moses and the prophets today, then they will not be persuaded if someone rises from the dead. In other words, remediation doesn't work. If a wealthy Jewish man doesn't listen to Moses, he won't listen to anyone else.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Not all who believe in hell want to separate God from it. And those who end up in hell are not victims.
Hell is done away with now today according to the bible but its subjective if you believe so or not.
“And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls — according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.”
Revelation 20:11-15 YLT98
The Revelation doesnt end here.
“And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls — according to their works; and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works; and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire — this [is] the second death; and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.”
Revelation 20:11-15 YLT98
Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing | Young's Literal Translation
And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them; and I saw the dead, small and great, standing
bible.com
The Revelation doesnt end here.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Steve is not right. The Bible doesn't show three things as you and he suggest. The Bible is self-consistent and without contradiction. The Big error Steve always makes is this. He never backs up his assertions with facts.
Chadrho
Active Member
Yes, im not so sure that judgement deals with us today. I believe everything has been fulfilled, yes.
However the kingdom of God has yet to stop growing.
Chapter 21-22, are considered renewnal chapters.
There could be a fourh view, which is reconcilinationist.
Which is a view that supports separation of faithful and faithless, either in or outside of the kingdom after passing away from here.
Cause the bible talks about unfaithful repentant people being outside of the gates of heavenly Jerusalm.
Univeralism suggests all people go straight to God in the Kingdom, doesnt matter if you believe in Jesus now or not, or if your from another religion.
Annihlatinist - death to the soul (Not Gods character though he would wipe people out; they still went to “hell” or sheol for the time being. (God is never said to want anyone to perish but all to come to repentance)
Damnationist - something like burning in torment of flames while God is smiling and manically laughing (not Gods charcter)
Which is a view that supports separation of faithful and faithless, either in or outside of the kingdom after passing away from here.
Cause the bible talks about unfaithful repentant people being outside of the gates of heavenly Jerusalm.
Univeralism suggests all people go straight to God in the Kingdom, doesnt matter if you believe in Jesus now or not, or if your from another religion.
Annihlatinist - death to the soul (Not Gods character though he would wipe people out; they still went to “hell” or sheol for the time being. (God is never said to want anyone to perish but all to come to repentance)
Damnationist - something like burning in torment of flames while God is smiling and manically laughing (not Gods charcter)
Chadrho
Active Member
That's not an accurate rendering of apokatastasis as it was understood in the early church. Those who are not in Christ and have not died to self and the passions will endure the age of punishment, which is cathartic not retributive.
"God's very love of humanity drags that which belongs to him from the ruins of the irrational and material. Not in hatred or revenge for a wicked life does God bring upon sinners those painful dispensations; He is only claiming and drawing to himself whatever came into existence. But while He for a noble end is attracting the soul to himself, it is the occasion necessarily to the being so attracted of a state of torture.
Just as those who refine gold from the dross which it contains not only get this base alloy to melt in the fire, but are obliged to melt the pure gold along with the alloy, and then while this is being consumed the gold remains, so too, while evil is being consumed in the cathartic fire, the soul that is welded to this evil must inevitably be in the fire too, until the spurious material alloy is consumed and annihilated by this fire." Gregory of Nyssa from On the Soul and the Resurrection.
Hello Chadrho,
I found this plural apocatastases or apokatastases. -əˌsēz. : restitution, restoration. especially : the doctrine of the final restoration of all sinful beings to God and to the state of blessedness compare universalism.
According to the bible, God through Christ has already reconciled the world back unto himself.
- and if one believes that Jesus Christ has had the victory that would mean for believers or unbelievers, they are saved from hell, death, satan, sin.
However that does not mean that everyone is saved to the Kingdom. (That is based on faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, and love for God and others. )
With the lake of fire that comes from God (in my opinion), I wonder if people partake and have the rest of the evil they have in them and can only save what little is left, however no one talks about that part very much and it seems to fall into being reconciled, with all tongues confessing and 'knees' bowing, but it would be a willful choice otherwise they can live outside in the darkness, perhaps the kingdom is smaller than the darkness outside of it, it's only speculative.
Perhaps as individuals of the kingdom, you are able to go help those who are in darkness to come to the light, though the flame of fire of truth may be to painful for them to bear and could take some time to get them there.
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