The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[Jack]

Your "evidence" is just you scoffing at the truth just like an unbeliever.

Some 'Christians' just don't like what God said.

 

[Triumph1300]

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible.
Who do you believe......nay sayers on this forum or Jesus Christ himself.

 

[St. SteVen]

Your "evidence" is just you scoffing at the truth just like an unbeliever.

Nope.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

 

[St. SteVen]

Each translation of the Bible has been translated from the original versions. With a few exceptions.

The "original versions"? What does that mean?

The original manuscripts are long gone. All we have are copies of copies of copies of copies...
Much of it corrupted by scribal errors, insertions, and subtractions.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible.

Hell is a person in the Bible? News to me. - LOL

 

[face2face]

You stated that "Hell" is a "doctrine".
Yet, Hell was created before there was a Hebrew Torah.
It was created for the "Devil and His angels" before Adam bit the Apple.

Do you get this from another "unknown" book?
Care to share.

 

[face2face]

Curious about the photo in your avatar.
Looks like an isthmus between two bodies of water, or a very long and narrow peninsula.

View attachment 34845

A beautiful Island in Tasmania.

 

[teamventure]

The "original versions"? What does that mean?

The original manuscripts are long gone. All we have are copies of copies of copies of copies...
Much of it corrupted by scribal errors, insertions, and subtractions.

That is a lie. They have been translated from the original Greek Hebrew and Aramaic.

 

[face2face]

Here is the issue with the Hell doctrine as commonly believed by Christians today.

Ask them to show you their origin story in the Bible. Now what will they do? Firstly, they will try and take you to Lucifer in Isaiah 14, a disaster move! - what it means is every living being up until this time had no idea about such a creature (God would be unjust to not advise His people of such a being). Also, the injustice done to that text is crazy. Then they will try and jump to Ezek 28 and try to the same there....in the end, all they can do is force a story about a fallen angel who transforms himself into a serpent, which by the way is clear that "the Lord God had made" and everyone throws their hands up in the air because the Hell doctrine just cannot be proved. Out of frustration every Christian will eventually run off to Revelation, thinking their origin story is there only to find they miss interpreted the prophecy and the symbology and we are back to the start....no origin story; no understanding how words like satan & devil are used in the Bible, so the whole thing is a real mess! The arguments go around and around because one side is unwilling to learn and is hell bent on believing in a God who is NOT full of Love and Justice, but one who has the ability to allow people to be tortured indefinably.

Hope that helps.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

Actually, I don't know of any Scriptures that JW's don't try to twist what God said. Still don't know how to quote Scripture?

John 15:20-21-- Jesus said--on account of his name( thinking they were standing for it) they would do things against the true followers-WHY? Because they do not know the one who sent him=Father= the only true God.

 

[Keiw]

I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish. Even if I didn't believe in Bible inerrancy, (and I do by the way), I would still live by it and teach it as though I did because it is all we have as our standard. The alternative is chaos where everyone just does what feels right to them. I believe God is far more pleased with those of us teaching Bible inerrancy than those tearing down faith in His Word.

The true God=Father only accepts worship in spirit and truth-John 4:22-24. And since Jesus promised that through his real teachers on earth, he would send holy spirit to guide them into all truth, and Dan 12:4 assures that here in these last days truth is now abundant= all true followers are in 100% agreement on Gods 1 truth-1Cor 1:10. Otherwise NONE could accomplish John 4:22-24

 

[Jack]

Jesus talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible.
Who do you believe......nay sayers on this forum or Jesus Christ himself.

True, and the 'nay sayers' avoid Scripture like plague!

 

[Jack]

John 15:20-21-- Jesus said--on account of his name( thinking they were standing for it) they would do things against the true followers-WHY? Because they do not know the one who sent him=Father= the only true God.

Don't you know how to quote Scripture? Your opinions are not Scripture, no matter what Kingdom Hall tells you.

 

[St. SteVen]

That is a lie. They have been translated from the original Greek Hebrew and Aramaic.

Ignore the ACTUAL history in order to cling to your doctrine, but...
What we had to work with for Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, is only our best guess as to what the originals actually said.
Which is why Textual Criticism (TC) was required to ARRIVE at that best guess. And three different theories of TC were applied.
And then that translators got a hold of it and imprinted THEIR doctrinal bias on it. See the link in post #403.

Here's one example of the sort of problems.


Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[Jack]

So many self professed Greek and Hebrew experts attacking our Bible!

 

[St. SteVen]

A beautiful Island in Tasmania.

Wow, that's something.
Is your avatar image looking to the northeast, or to the southwest?
There are mountains in the distance.

 

[Grailhunter]

That is a lie. They have been translated from the original Greek Hebrew and Aramaic.

Hate to bust your bubble, but @St. SteVen is correct on this.

We have no original texts....copies of copies. There is a lot of information on this but we work with copies and we consider the older copies more accurate. As time went along people felt that there were some things that should have been in the scriptures.....so they added them. As with the Comma Johanneum Addition. The KJV is full of this sort of thing as well as mistranslations.

So there has been a lot of fingers in the pie....Old and New Testament .....deletions and additions and modifications. Lots and lots of modifications .....like I have said they took God the Father's name out of the OId Testament which took around 6,000 deletions and then added the words God or Lord or both 6,000 times. A lot of effort to take God's name out of the scriptures.....wonder who was behind that?

There were things they thought should be there and things they did not like that were there. O' three kings of orient are! LOL The word Magi means witch or sorcerer and they did not like that at all! So some translations call them wise men and some call them kings and limit the number to three.

And they definitely did not understand why the devil was not defined in the Old Testament so they made modifications to that.....

The discoveries at Nag Hammadi and the Dead Sea in the 19th and 20th centuries have helped a lot because they include copies from the 2nd to 4th centuries….They have been used for verifications and comparisons. These discoveries have helped make a lot of corrections.

All and all modern translations that are based on older texts that have been verified are much more accurate.

 

[Jack]

Our Bibles are quite consistent overall. I have many.

 

[face2face]

Wow, that's something.
Is your avatar image looking to the northeast, or to the southwest?
There are mountains in the distance.

Looking Northeast. Cloudy Corner campground is a secluded beach camping spot which requires you to drive along the beach to access. That whole area is nature at its best.

 

[Grailhunter]

Our Bibles are quite consistent overall. I have many.

Errors in the King James Version (Boy, are there a lot of them) – The Superior Word

superiorword.org