DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

[quietthinker]

@face2face I am somewhat shocked and your replies #255 and #256. I don't think they sit well with your moniker but that's beside the point.
Steven is Steven and quietthinker is quietthinker, that's me by the way :) to conflate the two is like calling a bean a pea and visa vera.

I understand it could be easy to get confused and I'm sorry that you feel the need to align me with swine.
You say you want scriptures and I could supply them without a problem but I have the sense you wouldn't bother chasing them up because you've already decided what you've decided. I'm sorry for that also.

I am human in spite of your possible conclusion that I am the devils right hand. I also feel hurt when accusations are made that are distorted or just not true, accusations born from a half baked understanding. I also struggle to not return kind for kind because I fear becoming like the Master accuser. I have learned that is his speciality which he uses unremittingly while he induces the feeling that makes sure I feel justified in following his lead.

There you have it, fear of being tricked into using the same tactics of the enemy while feeling self righteously justified for doing so.

I know what it's like to be challenged with new ways of seeing and because I'm not the brightest crayon in the box one of my concerns is representing my Saviour poorly......which I have purposed never to do.

Go in peace F2F and know you have a soft spot in my heart.

 

[face2face]

@face2face I am somewhat shocked and your replies #255 and #256. I don't think they sit well with your moniker but that's beside the point.
Steven is Steven and quietthinker is quietthinker, that's me by the way :) to conflate the two is like calling a bean a pea and visa vera.

I understand it could be easy to get confused and I'm sorry that you feel the need to align me with swine.
You say you want scriptures and I could supply them without a problem but I have the sense you wouldn't bother chasing them up because you've already decided what you've decided. I'm sorry for that also.

This is plain old hypocrsiy on your part - think about what you have said and apply to yourself!

Did you see your false thinking in that post?
Did you you go back and consider all the deflecting comments?

The evidence is in the posts themselves - I really dont need to say a lot - its all been said quiet!

I am human in spite of your possible conclusion that I am the devils right hand. I also feel hurt when accusations are made that are distorted or just not true, accusations born from a half baked understanding. I also struggle to not return kind for kind because I fear becoming like the Master accuser. I have learned that is his speciality which he uses unremittingly while he induces the feeling that makes sure I feel justified in following his lead.

There you have it, fear of being tricked into using the same tactics of the enemy while feeling self righteously justified for doing so.

I know what it's like to be challenged with new ways of seeing and because I'm not the brightest crayon in the box one of my concerns is representing my Saviour poorly......which I have purposed never to do.

Go in peace F2F and know you have a soft spot in my heart.

I'm not one for facades quiet; I'm a straight shooter and a silky tongue doesn't do it for me. Your teachings are false and while I apprecaite you wont see this, others might. Seeking to know God, the one true God is everything and your posts distored Who He actually is. He is a God in balance...so I took it upon myself to right your inbalance view of Him.

I'm comforted to know one day God willing both our knowledge of Him will be more.

God bless
F2F

 

[Brakelite]

Would you expect that God would be MORE or LESS righteous than what expects from us?

God expects us to love our enemies. Is it MORE righteous for him to incinerate his own enemies?
Somehow incinerating humans seems wrong. How come?

Why do you infer that the destruction of the wicked isn't done out of love? The opposite of love is selfishness. God's destruction of sinners isn't selfish, He's protecting the eternal security of the universe for our sake, because we are the ones who will ultimately suffer if transgression rises again.

Second, "deconstructionism" is a misnomer. The process is mental and intellectual suicide, whereby someone, out of loyalty and deference to fools, runs over their former beliefs with a steamroller. The process lacks a basis in rationality and remains a deadly form of irrational skepticism.

There was a time in my life when I asked God to start again with me. I had fallen away from the church... Not from my belief in God...for several reasons, and I did not want to repeat the process. I thought at the beginning I was on the right track, but unlike @St. SteVen , became discouraged with leadership and philosophy, rather than doctrine. The start again process however came as a surprise as it started with doctrine... The Sabbath.

Should we NEVER question our faith?

If we know God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent, the only questions that should arise would focus not on His existence, which would threaten faith altogether, but on who He is and what He is like. His character, which is at the essence of the hell doctrine @St. SteVen was disturbed about...a disturbance which I sympathize with.

When we bring questions to the Bible, we aren't interested in what the Bible wants to say;

Many don't come with questions, but assumptions they are attempting to justify.

Yes, as long as we understand that "tough" questions, within the Christian context are those that challenge our existence. Who am I? What am I? Who is God? Who am I in relation to God? Who is man? Who am I in relation to man? Who is my neighbor? Who am I in relation to my neighbor?

Mmm. Relationship issues are always the hardest

Any question that causes one to examine "orthodox" beliefs is offensive.

Yep. Just ask any non-trinitarian.

Jesus never offended anyone (as far as I know) with his manner of speaking. But at times, people took offense at what he said.

And walked away from Him as a result.

 

[quietthinker]

Why do you infer that the destruction of the wicked isn't done out of love? The opposite of love is selfishness. God's destruction of sinners isn't selfish, He's protecting the eternal security of the universe for our sake, because we are the ones who will ultimately suffer if transgression rises again.

Does God use the same tools as the enemy ?

 

[St. SteVen]

Why do you infer that the destruction of the wicked isn't done out of love? The opposite of love is selfishness. God's destruction of sinners isn't selfish, He's protecting the eternal security of the universe for our sake, because we are the ones who will ultimately suffer if transgression rises again.

Why destroy anyone that you can make peace with? Seems both selfish and unnecessary.
I think God had a better plan in mind than to create a world intent on destruction of it and the vast majority of humans. (created in his image)
Does that seem unreasonable?

There was a time in my life when I asked God to start again with me. I had fallen away from the church... Not from my belief in God...for several reasons, and I did not want to repeat the process. I thought at the beginning I was on the right track, but unlike @St. SteVen , became discouraged with leadership and philosophy, rather than doctrine. The start again process however came as a surprise as it started with doctrine... The Sabbath.

What did you conclude about the Sabbath? Why was that a re-entry point?
I'm curious, not critical. If that brings you closer to God, I approve.

If we know God, and Jesus Christ whom He sent, the only questions that should arise would focus not on His existence, which would threaten faith altogether, but on who He is and what He is like. His character, which is at the essence of the hell doctrine @St. SteVen was disturbed about...a disturbance which I sympathize with.

Exactly.

Many don't come with questions, but assumptions they are attempting to justify.

Right.
It's like a failing economy. Everyone is selling, but no one is buying.

 

[St. SteVen]

Does God use the same tools as the enemy ?

RIGHT !!!!!!
Steal, kill, and DESTROY!

 

[Brakelite]

If I were to imagine a savior, what would he look like?

Thor?

 

[Brakelite]

Why destroy anyone that you can make peace with? Seems both selfish and unnecessary.

Someone spends their entire lifetime despising the idea of God... Utterly rejecting the concept of right living by love... Hating every suggestion of mercy, grace, or truth. They have no time whatsoever for Christians. A conversation with one makes them so uncomfortable, they almost throw up.
The just shall live by faith. The person described above reveals no faith at all. He dies. According to your scenario He goes into the metaphorical flames and all his doubts are removed and he becomes a loving believing righteous individual who loves nothing more than the company of holy angels and Christian children playing at the feet of Jesus. But the just live by faith. Where is this guy's faith? What does he actually have? Reality. But no faith. He has belief, but no love. No virtue. No character. His belief and reality was nothing more than confrontational in your face reality. He isn't converted.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you assume I am saying that amigo?

Well lets see .
Do you say muslims , buddists other religoins serve the same God we do .
lets start with that . A simple yes or no will do .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thor?

No foolish jesting . Thor is a god invented of satan .
Gotta be much more grave and serious . But as i said something is creeping into ALL DENOMINATIONS

 

[amigo de christo]

Someone spends their entire lifetime despising the idea of God... Utterly rejecting the concept of right living by love... Hating every suggestion of mercy, grace, or truth. They have no time whatsoever for Christians. A conversation with one makes them so uncomfortable, they almost throw up.
The just shall live by faith. The person described above reveals no faith at all. He dies. According to your scenario He goes into the metaphorical flames and all his doubts are removed and he becomes a loving believing righteous individual who loves nothing more than the company of holy angels and Christian children playing at the feet of Jesus. But the just live by faith. Where is this guy's faith? What does he actually have? Reality. But no faith. He has belief, but no love. No virtue. No character. His belief and reality was nothing more than confrontational in your face reality. He isn't converted.

Feel free to remind him about the dire message that cometh near the end of revelation .
The very book that speaks of the lake of fire .
A lake of fire from whence it never ADDS IN they ever get out .
He who adds too or takes from this book . Yea , REMIND HIM OF THAT .

 

[St. SteVen]

Someone spends their entire lifetime despising the idea of God... Utterly rejecting the concept of right living by love... Hating every suggestion of mercy, grace, or truth. They have no time whatsoever for Christians. A conversation with one makes them so uncomfortable, they almost throw up.

So... deathbed conversion = heaven.
No deathbed conversion = hell?

The just shall live by faith. The person described above reveals no faith at all.

The bed conversion had all of ten minutes? Is that enough?

He dies. According to your scenario He goes into the metaphorical flames and all his doubts are removed and he becomes a loving believing righteous individual who loves nothing more than the company of holy angels and Christian children playing at the feet of Jesus.

And you have a problem with that because? ???
Probably a gross overstatement of my position, but...

But the just live by faith. Where is this guy's faith? What does he actually have?

If we save ourselves he is in trouble. If Jesus saves us, there is always hope. IMHO

Reality. But no faith. He has belief, but no love. No virtue. No character. His belief and reality was nothing more than confrontational in your face reality. He isn't converted.

If we are saved by virtue and character he is in trouble. If Jesus saves him, there is hope. IMHO

 

[quietthinker]

Well lets see .
Do you say muslims , buddists other religoins serve the same God we do .
lets start with that . A simple yes or no will do .

why the avoidance/ decoy amigo?

 

[Brakelite]

No foolish jesting . Thor is a god invented of satan .
Gotta be much more grave and serious . But as i said something is creeping into ALL DENOMINATIONS

Half jesting. Mankind since the dawn of time has made God in his own image. Thor is one example of that as you pointed out. It was an honest answer to

If I were to imagine a savior, what would he look like?

Did not Israel choose Saul for the same reason? Tall, handsome, a warrior...

 

[Brakelite]

So... deathbed conversion = heaven.
No deathbed conversion = hell?

Yes, absolutely. Let's give God some credit for knowing whether such a confession is genuine or not. Such a person may not have had the time to develop a character befitting his confession, but his confession was real enough. The thief on the cross at Calvary a case in point. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot Idi Amin for all wet know may be resurrected along with other Christians. Unlikely I know, but with God all things are possible. But this life is your only opportunity. There's no second chances.

 

[amigo de christo]

Half jesting. Mankind since the dawn of time has made God in his own image. Thor is one example of that as you pointed out. It was an honest answer to

Did not Israel choose Saul for the same reason? Tall, handsome, a warrior...

actually it was GOD who chose saul . Now as for samuel , he did make the mistake of thinking it had to be the first born .
BUT GOD TOLD HIM REAL QUICKLIKE , look not on the outward appearance , GOD looks not on the outside
but upon the heart on the inside . This should remind us of an example of the true great high priest .
How so you might ask . Do you remember in the law that if any , and do i mean any
priest had any kind of deformity , even a mole , they could not stand in the office to ministir the duties of the high priest .
Now lets look at that reminder and then REMEMBER what GOD told samuel .
GOD LOOKS UPON THE INSIDE . Do you know of any man that is without blemish on the inside .
THERE was but ONE that could fullfill that ONE TRUE GREAT HIGH PRIEST OF GOD .
JESUS . HE WAS WITHOUT BLEMISH ON THE INSIDE MY FRIEND . OH yes .
THUS TODAY i would tell any and all jews as well as anyone
SEEK YE THE GREAT HIGH PREIST who is without any blemish on the inside .
Of course they would marvel and say , THERE IS NO SUCH MAN that has not sinned and is perfect on the inside .
ONLY GOD . THEN PREACH JESUS TO THEM . YEAH . exactly . EVEN THE LAW POINTED TO JESUS CHRIST .
OH yes . So lets not give muslims and buddists a pass , or even jews . SAY IT LOUD and say it often
THERE IS BUT ONE NAME WHEREBY ANY MAN WHETHER JEW OR WHETHER GENTILE BORN
can be saved . THERE IS ONLY ONE WHO IS THE TRUE GREAT HIGH PRIEST . AND YA BESS BE BELEIVING IN HIM .
DO NOT do as our churches have done . Dont fall for the ruse of this abrahamic faith stuff . CAUSE IT BE A LIE
SPRUNG from the bowels of satan .
Sure they try and twist some truths . OH they holler ALL THREE FAITHS ARE OF ABRAHAM .
They holler the ol muslims follow the GOD of torah and cliam abraham .
WRONG AGAIN . IF JESUS EVEN TOLD THE UNBELIEVING JEWS , YE are of your padre the devil
HOW ON EARTH are the muslims gonna get a pass . YA SEE IF a jew or gentile KNEW TORAH
and is truly of abraham , THEY GONNA DO AS ABRAHAM DID .
GOD SAID , ABRAHAM BELIEVED . YET JESUS SAID , and many do not believe . OOPSY me thinks me smell big time poopsy
in this abraham faith accord lie from hell . AND I Just dont want to see you all going down the same
road that it seeems ALL FAITHS within christanity and the other false relgions too are alll headed down as one .
CAUSE IT BE A LIE FROM SATAN and , i just love the peoples too much to let them believe a universal broad path to GOD LIE FROM HELL . Can you feel the love my friend . SEE LOVE CORRECTS it dont just hug and say all is well , WHEN ALL IS NOT WELL .

 

[amigo de christo]

why the avoidance/ decoy amigo?

actually it was GOD who chose saul . Now as for samuel , he did make the mistake of thinking it had to be the first born .
BUT GOD TOLD HIM REAL QUICKLIKE , look not on the outward appearance , GOD looks not on the outside
but upon the heart on the inside . This should remind us of an example of the true great high priest .
How so you might ask . Do you remember in the law that if any , and do i mean any
priest had any kind of deformity , even a mole , they could not stand in the office to ministir the duties of the high priest .
Now lets look at that reminder and then REMEMBER what GOD told samuel .
GOD LOOKS UPON THE INSIDE . Do you know of any man that is without blemish on the inside .
THERE was but ONE that could fullfill that ONE TRUE GREAT HIGH PRIEST OF GOD .
JESUS . HE WAS WITHOUT BLEMISH ON THE INSIDE MY FRIEND . OH yes .
THUS TODAY i would tell any and all jews as well as anyone
SEEK YE THE GREAT HIGH PREIST who is without any blemish on the inside .
Of course they would marvel and say , THERE IS NO SUCH MAN that has not sinned and is perfect on the inside .
ONLY GOD . THEN PREACH JESUS TO THEM . YEAH . exactly . EVEN THE LAW POINTED TO JESUS CHRIST .
OH yes . So lets not give muslims and buddists a pass , or even jews . SAY IT LOUD and say it often
THERE IS BUT ONE NAME WHEREBY ANY MAN WHETHER JEW OR WHETHER GENTILE BORN
can be saved . THERE IS ONLY ONE WHO IS THE TRUE GREAT HIGH PRIEST . AND YA BESS BE BELEIVING IN HIM .
DO NOT do as our churches have done . Dont fall for the ruse of this abrahamic faith stuff . CAUSE IT BE A LIE
SPRUNG from the bowels of satan .
Sure they try and twist some truths . OH they holler ALL THREE FAITHS ARE OF ABRAHAM .
They holler the ol muslims follow the GOD of torah and cliam abraham .
WRONG AGAIN . IF JESUS EVEN TOLD THE UNBELIEVING JEWS , YE are of your padre the devil
HOW ON EARTH are the muslims gonna get a pass . YA SEE IF a jew or gentile KNEW TORAH
and is truly of abraham , THEY GONNA DO AS ABRAHAM DID .
GOD SAID , ABRAHAM BELIEVED . YET JESUS SAID , and many do not believe . OOPSY me thinks me smell big time poopsy
in this abraham faith accord lie from hell . AND I Just dont want to see you all going down the same
road that it seeems ALL FAITHS within christanity and the other false relgions too are alll headed down as one .
CAUSE IT BE A LIE FROM SATAN and , i just love the peoples too much to let them believe a universal broad path to GOD LIE FROM HELL . Can you feel the love my friend . SEE LOVE CORRECTS it dont just hug and say all is well , WHEN ALL IS NOT WELL
HERE , YOU get a bite of this too my friend . WE BEING LIED TOO and sadly MOST FOLKS ARE LOVING A LIE .
THEY DONE SOLD OUT CHRIST JESUS for a murderer who sold them all a lie of a broad path to GOD .

 

[amigo de christo]

The world and worse a lot of churches treat satan as though HE BE GOD
and GOD as though he be satan .
HOW SO one might ask .
THEY SEE the GOD of the old test as evil , they see the JESUS CHRIST of the bible as EVIL .
THEY see any GOD that offers up ONLY WAY TO HIM , as evil
and yet honor this other who plays as GOD , who offers up the world a lie
that will not save them . They call him love cause he accepts all paths and certain sins
THEY CALL THE GOD of the BIBLE a HATER who dont love .
YET the last time i checked satan didnt give HIS LIFE FOR THE WORLD
but you better believe HE is ready to take your life WITH A LIE .
YA SEE HE has been a murderer from the beginning . HE DONT LOVE YA WORLD
HE LIES TO YA , so you can face the second death WITH HIM . HE DONT SET THE CAPTIVES FREE .
ONLY JESUS DOES . we beter open our bibles and start learning us some holy doctrine and VERY FAST TOO

 

[Brakelite]

actually it was GOD who chose saul

True. Correction warranted.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, absolutely. Let's give God some credit for knowing whether such a confession is genuine or not.

That's an interesting point for discussion. A "true" versus a "false" confession.
What would qualify each?

How many claim to be Christians now that would qualify as "false" confessors? (fire insurance?)
Meaning, they are only Christians because of an extortion style gospel message. ("believe" or burn)

Unlikely I know, but with God all things are possible.

Perfect set-up for my next question, thanks.

But this life is your only opportunity. There's no second chances.

Are you familiar with the Harrowing of Hell?