The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

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St. SteVen

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Everyone is a believer once they cross over, but we are judged according to whether we are believers in this life, not the next. God created all things including hell. Hell was created for the devil and his demons, but those who reject Jesus in this life will be punished with them. I am sorry if this makes some uncomfortable, but it is the truth, and lying to people to make them feel better is not showing them love. When we see someone in danger, it is our duty to warn them to save them from destruction.
Thanks for weighing in on this. I used to take that same position, but something happened. I had to evaluate things.
Consider this... "under the earth"? Say what?

Anyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4
 

St. SteVen

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Ok so let's disregard the bible but not a source that knocks the bible.
Let me ask you this; Do you consider yourself a Christian?
Yes, I consider myself a Christian, for lack of a better descriptor.
Some have opted for "Christ follower". I don't care for that one either.
None of them are wandering homeless from town to town
casting out demons and healing the sick.

Anyway... the short answer is "Yes, I consider myself a Christian."
Curious to see where you are going with this.
Better buckle up, might be a bumpy ride. - LOL
 

Grailhunter

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@Jack
There is a scripture that says Hades had all the souls dumped out, and then it is thrown away and done away with- so I believe that already happened but anyway, I love your enthusiasm I am not gonna entertain it anymore.

Jack you are going to have to give us that scripture please.
 

amigo de christo

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The Lake of Fire is a place of eternal torment, even according to Revelation. In Revelation 20:10, it says, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." In Revelation 20:15, it says, "And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

If it is your contention that verse 10 only mentions the beast and false prophet being tormented forever, technically that is true, but this verse shows that God indeed will torment his enemies. Is he a masochist for tormenting fallen angels? If He will do that to fallen angels, why are people any different when they are cast into the same lake of fire? Even if you want to hang your hat on this, what if you are wrong? In addition to that, what about God casting sinners into the lake of fire? Imagine the fear and horror of facing this. If they are burned up, how long does it take a soul to burn up? You cannot judge a soul compared to a physical body. Perhaps it takes a soul thousands or millions of years to burn up, if it ever does. These are unknowns. How can anyone be so sure that sinners are not tormented in hell when the same God is tormenting fallen angels forever?
Yes my friend . There is also a dire warning that occurs at the end of the book of revelation
The same book which talks about the lake of fire . It specifically warns us near the end
whoever adds too or takes from that book . And what will happen to those who do so .
Todays generation has been lulled to sleep by another version of love that is not coming from GOD but rather is of the world .
Through this love the severity of GOD has been removed and thus a false goodness of GOD has been taught .
I truly do not think that many people can grasp the fact that Even satan himself can quoate the scripture .
Satan can quote any and all scrips . But with his quote he will twist it .
What was the first lie the serpent told to eve in the garden .
What HAD GOD told adam would occur in the day he ate of the tree of good and knowledge .
GOD clearly told adam , to NOT eat of that tree for in the day he did he would surely die .
But the serpent twisted this . NAY , nay , ye shall not surely die . And eve chose to beleive the serpent
over what GOD himself had said .
And adam chose to hearken to the voice of His wife and not to What GOD had told him .
Now its very plainly written in the scripture . JESUS told them , go and preach the gospel
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved , he who believes not shall be damned .
Its clearly said in scriptures . All unbelievers , the abominable , all who loved a lie
will have their part in the lake of fire .
Now , who are we gonna believe . GOD or satan . CHRIST or anti christ , The apostels or men of today who twist things .
IT clearly says that anyone who adds to or takes from that book , Will have the plagues , will have their part in the lake of fire .
Are we gonna believe a love that cometh of the world that preaches and teaches us things which directly contradict
what GOD , CHRIST , the apostels themselves said . OR are we simply gonna be DOERS , BELIEVERS of that which
has been given us in the scripture .
Because i must be honest , when the serpent lied to eve and her and her husband did believe it
WELL the sepent turned out wrong , DEATH came upon them and all mankind ever since . AS GOD said it would .
SO what makes this generation think if it omits the dire need to beleive on Christ
and omits the idea folks who believe not will perish , under the guise of another love and image o GOD
that the same thing wont occur to them . IT WILL JOHN . THEY will face the second death
CAUSE GOD , HIS CHRIST SAID SO . This generation needs to return to the scriptures and learn that GOD , HIS CHRIST
and all sound doctrine well . AND BELIEVE IT .
 

amigo de christo

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That is a huge stretch, and even if you believe this, you cannot prove it. This is not the obvious meaning in the text, but it is the type of thing someone might say that is grasping at straws for anything. Again, consider that this "loving God" is tormenting the beast and the false prophet day and night for ever and ever. This proves that God will do that to angels, so why not to men. We have been lied to so many times about God's love, we take it to the extreme. We say that what the Bible says cannot be right when it speaks of eternal judgment, not because it doesn't teach that, but because God is love, and a loving God wouldn't do this.

God so loved us that He sent His own Son to make a way of escape from hell, so it is our fault if we don't accept it. God proved His love, but that doesn't mean there is no place of eternal torment. If there is no hell, what did Jesus die to save us from? Would He leave His throne in Heaven to die on a cross to save us from the grave? If that is true, it was in vain because we are all going to die physically and wind up in the grave. He died to make a way of escape from hell, a place of eternal suffering, but those that do not believe in Him and serve Him will go there and be tormented eternally with the devil and His angels. Believe anything you want, but I believe the Bible.
Eve chose to believe the serpent who said SURELY ye shall not die .
GOD said they would . WHICH ONE TURNED OUT TO BE RIGHT . GOD DID .
Same applies today . Are we gonna believe GOD , HIS CHRIST the TRUTH in the scriptures
or are we gonna beleive a lie that says NAY NAY ye shall not , WHEN GOD HIMSELF says YE SHALL .
exactly . I see as does a small child . A truth so simple even a child can grasp ........
And the truth is this , IF GOD SAYS SOMETHING BELEIVE IT TO BE TRUE .
 

Grailhunter

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Come on guys I have already explained this….check it out.

They cannot throw Hades in the lake of fire because he is a Greco-Roman god. LOL The New Testament writers were grasping for words to define Hell because there was no word that represents Hell in the Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic. The word Hell is not coined until the 8th century AD.

Translators placed the Greek word Hades in a Hebrew text-The Old Testament which is a corruption. Part of it was an intent to deceive because they could not understand why Hell was not discussed in the Old Testament …so they put it there. But in fact what the Old Testament was discussing was the grave. Note the words decay or rot. Either way the scriptures are referring to a concept because He is not going to throw all the graves into the lake of fire.

In the New Testament they used Hades to describe the grave or Hell. No matter what it is still an inaccurate term.

FOR YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR WILL YOU ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.

For you will not leave my soul among the dead or allow your Holy One to rot in the grave.
Act 2:27

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 20:14
 

Jack

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@Jack
There is a scripture that says Hades had all the souls dumped out, and then it is thrown away and done away with- so I believe that already happened but anyway, I love your enthusiasm I am not gonna entertain it anymore.
Quote it please.
Jack you are going to have to give us that scripture please.
Preterist?
 
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Jack

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Nope. Jesus victory today, would - say EVERYONE has been saved from hell, satan, sin, death, the wrath of God (because it pertained to the nation God chose); but not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of Heaven; because to be saved to the kingdom of heaven is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and obey his commandments, which are to believe on the whom had sent him, and to love, @Jack.

In Revelation 21-22, there seems to be a group of unbelievers, and a group of believers all living in that spiritual plane where God resides, unless those chapters dont matter. Revelation 20 seems to be the end of the Age of the Mosaic time, where everything is done away with before being made new, in the preceding chapters.
If the MANY NT warnings aren't for you then who? You said everyone will be saved. Why warn them?
 
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Keiw

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You mean God of the Bible Who burned Sodom alive, "making them an example"?
Genesis 19
24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.
25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

Again "symbolic", one of the Watch Tower's favorite words when they don't like what God said!

There you go trying to rewrite our Bible again! You're not qualified not matter what the Watch Tower told you.
The wicked deserve to be destroyed. God owns every iota of his creation. He has 100% right to tell all how it is to be apart of it. When they say-NO-Its their fault.
 

Keiw

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That is the carnal mind. In our natural body, we cannot survive the flames of hell, but spirit can and will. The worms and any other beast or angel will be able to continue in the flames of hell and the Lake of Fire. If hell was the grave, what did Jesus warn us for? Everyone dies and their bodies go to the grave, righteous and unrighteous. You cannot escape physical death. Why the warnings that it is better to enter life maimed or missing an eye or a limb than to wind up in hell when it is not avoidable? Believe anything you want but it doesn't change the truth.
There is no literal place of eternal suffering. Gods justice scales alone make it impossible to be literal.
 

amigo de christo

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We all deserve Hell , "forever and ever"!
And that is why folks better get real busy real fast preaching the ONLY NAME OF HE WHO CAN SAVE .
JESUS CHRIST . But many would rather omit the severity of GOD and give 0ut a false hope unto the world
which indeed saves not
but indeed graves many .
 
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amigo de christo

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You might try that with a little pot and some old reels of Woodstock.
With this other gospel that saves not getting sold so fast under a false love
me thinks its doctrine came and cometh of POT , cause its seriously blocking reality about GOD .
Let no man , woman or child inhale the fumes of its pipe . For crack killeth the body
but this other love junk gonna kill the very soul of all who partook of its peace pipe .
 

amigo de christo

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You might try that with a little pot and some old reels of Woodstock.
Grailhunter . There be a pie eyed piper piping a very alluring song
of a love that cometh of the world and not OF GOD .
And though hand join in hand and it grows massive in the hearts of the ever unifying religoins
THEY WILL DIE IN THEIR SIN . Time we preach JESUS CHRIST , and HE ALONE unto alll
that has breath .
 
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Grailhunter

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Grailhunter . There be a pie eyed piper piping a very alluring song
of a love that cometh of the world and not OF GOD .
And though hand join in hand and it grows massive in the hearts of the ever unifying religoins
THEY WILL DIE IN THEIR SIN . Time we preach JESUS CHRIST , and HE ALONE unto alll
that has breath .
Agreed, drugs are of the devil and free-will is our gift from God.
 
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amigo de christo

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You might try that with a little pot and some old reels of Woodstock.
You like to read the bible ...........right .
Well i gots a lil trivia question for us all .
REMEMBER EVE .............
REMEMBER ADAM ...................
remember what GOD had said unto them
remember what the serpent said unto them .
THEY CHOSE WRONG PARD . they chose to believe a lie and beleived they would not die . BUT it was GOD WHO WAS RIGHT
not the serpent . THEY CHOSE WRONG .
Now JESUS HIMSELF said what HE had to say about those who believed not
Are we gonna do as adam and eve and believe a lie that they shall surely not be damned
OR are we gonna BELIEVE GOD and HIS CHRIST . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY .
AS for me , I AM GONNA BELEIVE THAT BIBLE , THAT JESUS , THAT GOD .
 
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