The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[MatthewG]

Like I believe in Sheol, and Hell, as Paradise and the prison part but its been done away with @Jack.

There is a scripture that says Hades had all the souls dumped out, and then it is thrown away and done away with- so I believe that already happened but anyway, I love your enthusiasm I am not gonna entertain it anymore.

So what I do believe remains is what John the Beloved said in Revelation 21-22. I believe that lake of fire is still there in the afterlife, and I believe people are not thrown in there, but they choose to go in there. (HAVING THEIR PART) not forever and ever as you continue to suggest. The only ones forever and ever is Satan, the false prophet, the beast, and I guess Hades was thrown in there too in the lake of fire?

See ya.

 

[Instant]

You got a lot to say, @Instant, but this all I can share.

basanizó: to torture
Original Word: βασανίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: basanizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bas-an-id'-zo)
Definition: to torture
Usage: I examine, as by torture; I torment; I buffet, as of waves.

God is a consuming Fire.

Lake of fire.

Torment torture.

Fire - flames
love, burns evil away?
Renewed.

Baptized in holy spirit and fire - fire burns away the old man, old man is buried in ground - raised to the new life - spirit.

Flames of fire from a loving God, are tormenting because he is holy.


Why else would a person have to suffer as a Christian suffering with Christ. That is tormenting as well, just as truth can be tormenting.

However - Paul pressed forward looking to the hope of obtaining the resurrection from the dead.


(AN different than normal resurrection), go check it out in the greek.


www.biblehub.com.

That is a huge stretch, and even if you believe this, you cannot prove it. This is not the obvious meaning in the text, but it is the type of thing someone might say that is grasping at straws for anything. Again, consider that this "loving God" is tormenting the beast and the false prophet day and night for ever and ever. This proves that God will do that to angels, so why not to men. We have been lied to so many times about God's love, we take it to the extreme. We say that what the Bible says cannot be right when it speaks of eternal judgment, not because it doesn't teach that, but because God is love, and a loving God wouldn't do this.

God so loved us that He sent His own Son to make a way of escape from hell, so it is our fault if we don't accept it. God proved His love, but that doesn't mean there is no place of eternal torment. If there is no hell, what did Jesus die to save us from? Would He leave His throne in Heaven to die on a cross to save us from the grave? If that is true, it was in vain because we are all going to die physically and wind up in the grave. He died to make a way of escape from hell, a place of eternal suffering, but those that do not believe in Him and serve Him will go there and be tormented eternally with the devil and His angels. Believe anything you want, but I believe the Bible.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you everyone for listening, hope some of the things brings some things to think about and go and check out.

You all have a good night, @quietthinker what was that zoom?

 

[MatthewG]

That is a huge stretch, and even if you believe this, you cannot prove it.

You're right, that is why I believe it by faith. In a Good God, who has a purpose for everything and he only does good period, and he is only love, otherwise he is not a Good God. Sorry I just kind of ignored everything you said but I really wanna go on do other things.


Taking out his own Nation was justifiable... 1,000,000 jews dead in Jerusalem, everything destroyed.

Im totally okay with that.

New nation is a Heavenly Jerusaelm, with a kingdom that has an inside, and also an outside.


Just go read REvelation 21-22: It will take you 30 minutes or less to read it out loud to yourself.

 

[Instant]

Like I believe in Sheol, and Hell, as Paradise and the prison part but its been done away with @Jack.

There is a scripture that says Hades had all the souls dumped out, and then it is thrown away and done away with- so I believe that already happened but anyway, I love your enthusiasm I am not gonna entertain it anymore.

So what I do believe remains is what John the Beloved said in Revelation 21-22. I believe that lake of fire is still there in the afterlife, and I believe people are not thrown in there, but they choose to go in there. (HAVING THEIR PART) not forever and ever as you continue to suggest. The only ones forever and ever is Satan, the false prophet, the beast, and I guess Hades was thrown in there too in the lake of fire?

See ya.

You believe that, but how do you know a soul is capable of being burned up? It is different from flesh and blood, so the best you have is a chance you may be right. That is it. You have a slim possibility, but there is no real basis but that you believe God loves us too much, but yet you admit He doesn't love a fallen angel named Lucifer and a false prophet enough to not torment them forever.

 

[MatthewG]

Satan was promised to have head crushed in genesis. He was snuffed out and done away with forever by the foot of Jesus crushing his head. That was a promise from God, @Instant.

I never said anything about a soul being burned up; what I suggest is evil being burned out of a soul.

It's so impartive for people go back, go back and look, and read, and discover.

You have a good night as I love being able to talk about these things but I really wanna go.

 

[MatthewG]

Im not so sure about the false prophet it saying Satan was the false prophet and the beast? I am not sure that is something I should go back and study but either way by faith I do believe, God has reconciled the world to himself, and we all walk around in the Garden of eden choosing the tree of life, or the knowledge of good and evil.

The lake of fire is said to only be for SAtan and his Angels, and not made for humans but they take a part of it - if they were unbelievers according to Revelation 21, or 22.

Take care @Instant, as I am fallible human being but have a lot of hope despite my lack of knowing.

 

[Jack]

Like I believe in Sheol, and Hell, as Paradise and the prison part but its been done away with @Jack.

There is a scripture that says Hades had all the souls dumped out, and then it is thrown away and done away with- so I believe that already happened but anyway, I love your enthusiasm I am not gonna entertain it anymore.

So what I do believe remains is what John the Beloved said in Revelation 21-22. I believe that lake of fire is still there in the afterlife, and I believe people are not thrown in there, but they choose to go in there. (HAVING THEIR PART) not forever and ever as you continue to suggest. The only ones forever and ever is Satan, the false prophet, the beast, and I guess Hades was thrown in there too in the lake of fire?

See ya.

It's your word against Jesus! You're making up your own bible to please you! You're avoiding the Christian Bible like plague!

 

[Instant]

Satan was promised to have head crushed in genesis. He was snuffed out and done away with forever by the foot of Jesus crushing his head. That was a promise from God, @Instant.

I never said anything about a soul being burned up; what I suggest is evil being burned out of a soul.

It doesn't say done away with forever. It is saying Lucifer was defeated by the cross. That is how his head was crushed. We see the beast and false prophet being tormented forever in Revelation 20:10. This good God created that place and is going to torment these two forever. Even if you do not believe the Beast is Lucifer, it is still a being with feelings. People have a wrong idea about what good is and what love is. God is good, but His ways are different from our ways, and good doesn't mean the same thing with God as it may with men. The same thing goes with understanding God's love. That doesn't mean He will not torture sinners forever. He made a way of escape.

Anyway, you said you believe what you do by faith, and it is hard to argue with a belief based on faith because we believe whatever we want, so I see no need to argue with you. Have a good night.

 

[MatthewG]

Jack,

Jesus brought the Revelation my friend. So yes, it is Jesus word against my own..

You are very silly man... I hope you stop one day.

Last message.

1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God agave him bto show to his servants1 the things that must soon take place. cHe made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

 

[MatthewG]

It doesn't say done away with forever. It is saying Lucifer was defeated by the cross. That is how his head was crushed. We see the beast and false prophet being tormented forever in Revelation 20:10. This good God created that place and is going to torment these two forever. Even if you do not believe the Beast is Lucifer, it is still a being with feelings. People have a wrong idea about what good is and what love is. God is good, but His ways are different from our ways, and good doesn't mean the same thing with God as it may with men. The same thing goes with understanding God's love. That doesn't mean He will not torture sinners forever. He made a way of escape.

Anyway, you said you believe what you do by faith, and it is hard to argue with a belief based on faith because we believe whatever we want, so I see no need to argue with you. Have a good night.

It does say the Devil is there too in Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

anyway thank you again for the dialogue, and you may be right.

What punishment that is given by God that is not a form of love?

Take care.

 

[Jack]

Jack,

Jesus brought the Revelation my friend. So yes, it is Jesus word against my own..

Finally, a statement of fact!

You are very silly man... I hope you stop one day.

You make up your own bible to please YOU! You have clearly rejected the parts of the Christian Bible you don't like.

Last message.

1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God agave him bto show to his servants1 the things that must soon take place. cHe made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

You pick the parts you like! You make up your own personal bible to please yourself.

 

[Instant]

It does say the Devil is there too in Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

anyway thank you again for the dialogue, and you may be right.

What punishment that is given by God that is not a form of love?

Take care.

Nice meeting you. Have a good night.

 

[teamventure]

St. SteVen said:
To inform you that scripture is contradictory. - LOL
Any questions?
Where did you get the idea that scripture is NOT contradictory?

Do you understand where the Bible came from?
You seem to have bought the standard apologetic about inerrancy.
Here's a short education from someone you can trust. (I think)

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus – Textual Criticism 101​

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

Ok so let's disregard the bible but not a source that knocks the bible.
Let me ask you this; Do you consider yourself a Christian?

 

[quietthinker]

You think I might go to Hell? lol

It's not that I think it Jack. That determination is not mine, neither do I want it.
What is evident though is, you think that I think this.

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you everyone for listening, hope some of the things brings some things to think about and go and check out.

You all have a good night, @quietthinker what was that zoom?

You asked if we could possibly get together and chat on zoom. I replied with a Zoom ID of a get together I frequent where chats of the nature being discussed and others are broached.
It is a friendly, intelligent and objective bunch of people who have a generous attitude.

Please join us. The Zoom ID is 403 506 9201. For North Americans the time is Monday evening at 6.30pm Mountain Standard Time. You can work out your time zone from that reference point.

....and if there are other folks curious or interested, you/ they are also welcome.

 

[Jack]

It's not that I think it Jack. That determination is not mine, neither do I want it.
What is evident though is, you think that I think this.

What I think is that you don't have a clue what you believe or what is in the Bible.

 

[quietthinker]

What I think is that you don't have a clue what you believe or what is in the Bible.

with respect Jack, thank you for an insight into your clueless thinking :)

 

[Jack]

with respect Jack, thank you for an insight into your clueless thinking :)

I'm just a Bible believer. What are you?

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

If you had read the Bible you would know 'death' does not mean 'cease to exist'. MANY will wish they 'ceased to exist'!

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Jack, really? Did you just fling your gobbledygook against the wall to see what would stick? Death is not death. Death is hell. Hell can consume hell.
I know you are under a strong delusion, but speaking against God and Scriptures are really undesirable. Speak reasonably because you are way too old to talk like a unread child.
Once again, can't wish you well. May God rebuke you. No need to see me out the door. :)