The Hell Doctrine - No doctrinal unity

[Jack]

Everyone is a believer once they cross over, but we are judged according to whether we are believers in this life, not the next. God created all things including hell. Hell was created for the devil and his demons, but those who reject Jesus in this life will be punished with them. I am sorry if this makes some uncomfortable, but it is the truth, and lying to people to make them feel better is not showing them love. When we see someone in danger, it is our duty to warn them to save them from destruction.

Amen!

Jude 1
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

 

[Jack]

Sheol / Hades.

Was the realm of the dead.

People died, and when they pasted on they went to Sheol - because - the connection between God and man had a separation as you see Adam and eve being lead out of the Garden.

Sin - kept them from God - and they were in a place of the dead.

This place of the dead with unbodied souls had two compartments,

Paradise - where Jesus went when he died on the Cross.
and the separated prison part of Sheol, which held people from NOAHS time, and there was even a lower part that held angels.


That is hell in a nut shell... if you wanna know about what it was like it was very dark, gloomy, had bars, slippery (always wanting to try be still) - I think of Jonah in the well. It also had the Paradise part but people were still unbodied until Jesus Christ came, and was resurrected which


PAID for that sin before - and eventually all those in Sheol were let out, and judged, according to Revelation.

There is so many made up ideas about hell the only way to get to the truth is actually go study it yourself.

Should we believe you or Jesus?

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Instant]

You keep your sadist God. I will keep the God of love. All who know him knows 100% its symbolic=eternal suffering. You wont believe the facts found in the bible in your short sightedness- This single teaching proves it isnt literal--The place where the worm dieth not( speaking of Gehenna--Face facts-no worm in existence could survive a single hour in a hot firey place let alone dieth not. Try listening to the facts instead of the twisted teachings of these blind guides-2Cor 11:12-15

That is the carnal mind. In our natural body, we cannot survive the flames of hell, but spirit can and will. The worms and any other beast or angel will be able to continue in the flames of hell and the Lake of Fire. If hell was the grave, what did Jesus warn us for? Everyone dies and their bodies go to the grave, righteous and unrighteous. You cannot escape physical death. Why the warnings that it is better to enter life maimed or missing an eye or a limb than to wind up in hell when it is not avoidable? Believe anything you want but it doesn't change the truth.

 

[MatthewG]

People need to study @Jack.

However, if people would like to be bible literalists, by all means just quote scripture all you would like to; as it doesn't really effect me as much as you may assume. My contextual looking is at the bible as a whole not just bits and pieces, that is why Revelation is a beautifully horror-filled piece of artwork.

Sheol / Hades.

Was the realm of the dead.

People died, and when they pasted on they went to Sheol - because - the connection between God and man had a separation as you see Adam and eve being lead out of the Garden.

Sin - kept them from God - and they were in a place of the dead.

This place of the dead with unbodied souls had two compartments,

Paradise - where Jesus went when he died on the Cross.
and the separated prison part of Sheol, which held people from NOAHS time, and there was even a lower part that held angels.


That is hell in a nut shell... if you wanna know about what it was like it was very dark, gloomy, had bars, and slippery (always wanting to try be still) - I think of Jonah in the whale. It also had the Paradise part but people were still unbodied until Jesus Christ came, and was resurrected which


PAID for that sin before - and eventually all those in Sheol were let out, and judged, according to Revelation.

There is so many made-up ideas about hell the only way to get to the truth is actually go study it yourself, looking at the evidence in the bible.

Hell / Hades / Sheol / Paradise - all of it was a covering for the dead - as SIN had yet to be taken care of.

 

[MatthewG]

People need to study @Jack.

However, if people would like to be bible literalists, by all means just quote scripture all you would like to; as it doesn't really effect me as much as you may assume. My contextual looking is at the bible as a whole not just bits and pieces, that is why Revelation is a beautifully horror-filled piece of artwork.

@Jack,

Here is me reading through all the Gospels.

I did this before I ended up relapsing again back on meth and still need to go through the rest - Acts through Revelation...

I was hoping to do the whole new testament in a month but the relapse held me back...

After that the plan is do verse by verse studies. No matter what difficulty may come; I just have to want to do that work or not...

 

[MatthewG]

That is the carnal mind. In our natural body, we cannot survive the flames of hell, but spirit can and will. The worms and any other beast or angel will be able to continue in the flames of hell and the Lake of Fire. If hell was the grave, what did Jesus warn us for? Everyone dies and their bodies go to the grave, righteous and unrighteous. You cannot escape physical death. Why the warnings that it is better to enter life maimed or missing an eye or a limb than to wind up in hell when it is not avoidable? Believe anything you want but it doesn't change the truth.

Hello Instant,

That is a good question about the warnings that were given to the people at the time.

The warning was - REPENT AND BELIEVE AND YOU WILL NOT FACE THE WRATH OF GOD (you would be saved from that).

Everyone in that day though went to hell, even Jesus himself, he went to Paradise and traveled down to the prison parts of Sheol. Until resurrection, and Jesus return, hell would be done away with completely, and replaced by the inside of the Kingdom of Heaven, and the outside of the Kingdom of Heaven according to John the Beloved, in Revelation.

A message to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

Which eventually Israel become desolated and destroyed as promised, by Jesus, and by God himself, since Malachi.

 

[Jack]

Hello Instant,

That is a good question about the warnings that were given to the people at the time.

The warning was - REPENT AND BELIEVE AND YOU WILL NOT FACE THE WRATH OF GOD (you would be saved from that).

A message to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

Which eventually Israel become desolated and destroyed as promised, by Jesus, and by God himself, since Malachi.

So the warnings of Jesus aren't for you?

 

[MatthewG]

Nope. Jesus victory today, would - say EVERYONE has been saved from hell, satan, sin, death, the wrath of God (because it pertained to the nation God chose); but not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of Heaven; because to be saved to the kingdom of heaven is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and obey his commandments, which are to believe on the whom had sent him, and to love, @Jack.

In Revelation 21-22, there seems to be a group of unbelievers, and a group of believers all living in that spiritual plane where God resides, unless those chapters dont matter. Revelation 20 seems to be the end of the Age of the Mosaic time, where everything is done away with before being made new, in the preceding chapters.

 

[MatthewG]

I also realize I sound very sure of myself because these are the things that I have come to learn over time - but no one has to believe them, and no one has to trust me, or anything, however, I do encourage the fact of studying, with learning Hebrew words from a Hebrew dictionary and greek, and also a close as you can get translation like Young Literal, and also just really understanding what it one is reading, helps tremendously.


A good bible study book I recommend is this

Amazon.com : thompson chain-reference

This was the one I recently bought: Amazon.com (I got it off christianbook and it had double ribbon this one looks like a single)

 

[Jack]

Nope. Jesus victory today, would - say EVERYONE has been saved from hell, satan, sin, death, the wrath of God (because it pertained to the nation God chose); but not everyone is saved to the Kingdom of Heaven; because to be saved to the kingdom of heaven is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and obey his commandments, which are to believe on the whom had sent him, and to love, @Jack.

In Revelation 21-22, there seems to be a group of unbelievers, and a group of believers all living in that spiritual plane where God resides, unless those chapters dont matter. Revelation 20 seems to be the end of the Age of the Mosaic time, where everything is done away with before being made new, in the preceding chapters.

You've been duped!

Philippians 2
12 Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

 

[MatthewG]

You've been duped!

Philippians 2
12 Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

Everyone has too. I can't save you. Jesus already did though, if a person desires him in their life, may they go after him, and his Father. They are the ones who give age-during life.

Have a good one. Thank you also again for the great question @Instant.

 

[Jack]

Everyone has too. I can't save you. Jesus already did though, if a person desires him in their life, may they go after him, and his Father. They are the ones who give age-during life.

You're preaching a false gospel that Satan loves!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

 

[Instant]

Hello Instant,

That is a good question about the warnings that were given to the people at the time.

The warning was - REPENT AND BELIEVE AND YOU WILL NOT FACE THE WRATH OF GOD (you would be saved from that).

Everyone in that day though went to hell, even Jesus himself, he went to Paradise and traveled down to the prison parts of Sheol. Until resurrection, and Jesus return, hell would be done away with completely, and replaced by the inside of the Kingdom of Heaven, and the outside of the Kingdom of Heaven according to John the Beloved, in Revelation.

A message to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

Which eventually Israel become desolated and destroyed as promised, by Jesus, and by God himself, since Malachi.

The Lake of Fire is a place of eternal torment, even according to Revelation. In Revelation 20:10, it says, "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." In Revelation 20:15, it says, "And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

If it is your contention that verse 10 only mentions the beast and false prophet being tormented forever, technically that is true, but this verse shows that God indeed will torment his enemies. Is he a masochist for tormenting fallen angels? If He will do that to fallen angels, why are people any different when they are cast into the same lake of fire? Even if you want to hang your hat on this, what if you are wrong? In addition to that, what about God casting sinners into the lake of fire? Imagine the fear and horror of facing this. If they are burned up, how long does it take a soul to burn up? You cannot judge a soul compared to a physical body. Perhaps it takes a soul thousands or millions of years to burn up, if it ever does. These are unknowns. How can anyone be so sure that sinners are not tormented in hell when the same God is tormenting fallen angels forever?

 

[MatthewG]

You got a lot to say, @Instant, but this all I can share.

basanizó: to torture
Original Word: βασανίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: basanizó
Phonetic Spelling: (bas-an-id'-zo)
Definition: to torture
Usage: I examine, as by torture; I torment; I buffet, as of waves.

928 basanízō (from 931 /básanos, "a tormenting trial") – properly, to examine (literally by using torture).

God is a consuming Fire.

Lake of fire.

Torment torture.

Fire - flames
love, burns evil away?
Renewed.

Baptized in holy spirit and fire - fire burns away the darkness, the old man, old man is buried in ground - raised to the new life - spirit, newness of life in Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

Flames of fire from a loving God, are tormenting because he is holy.


Why else would a person have to suffer as a Christian suffering with Christ. That is tormenting as well, just as truth can be tormenting.

However - Paul pressed forward looking to the hope of obtaining the resurrection from the dead.


(AN different than normal resurrection), go check it out in the greek.


www.biblehub.com.

 

[Jack]

Flames of fire from a loving God, are tormenting because he is holy.


Why else would a person have to suffer as a Christian suffering with Christ. That is tormenting as well, just as truth can be tormenting.

Aren't you concerned that you are leading people to Hell, even your loved ones?

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

 

[MatthewG]

Aren't you concerned that you are leading people to Hell, even your loved ones?

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

no. No one is going to hell, Ill tell anyone in real life exactly the same things shared here already. They wont end up in the Kingdom if they desire to have nothing to do with God and seek him out, only few be there that find it, and each work out their own salvation.

 

[quietthinker]

"Everlasting destruction", a process that NEVER ends!

2 Thessalonians 1
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

You are parroting the Watch Tower.

Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

"Symbolism", one of the Watch Towers favorite words when they don't like what God said.

If God was "a sadist" He wouldn't have warned us about "the everlasting fire". We were clearly warned.

Is that why He drowned all on Earth but 8, including elderly and children "MAKING THEM and EXAMPLE"? So, accept my Bible challenge. You will lose. Honestly I doubt you ever read the Bible before you went to Kingdom Hall.

I think you just violated forum rules.

No doubt you have not considered that you are using God's name in vain? How so? by misrepresenting his character; by presenting him as one who maintains with enjoyment the eternal torture of his creatures who had no choice in where and when they were born and the limited influences they were subject to.....like the billions who lived and died in darkest Africa or the frozen sections of the pole or Asia well before they knew of the Middle East let alone the name of Jesus.

You deliberately and persistently dismiss context while making no enquiry whatsoever re the possibility of another way of seeing.

You are in fact pushing the picture of God that Satan desires people to have. That, my dear Jack, is taking the Lord's name (his character) in vain......or maybe you are also of the persuasion that this Law no longer applies?......this also is the Devil's angle!

 

[Jack]

View attachment 34798 no. No one is going to hell.

A Satanic lie!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.'

 

[Jack]

No doubt you have not consider that you are using God's name in vain? How so? by misrepresenting his character; by presenting him as one who maintains with enjoyment the eternal torture of his creatures who had no choice in where and when they were born and the limited influences they were subject to.....like the billions who lived and died in darkest Africa or the frozen sections of the pole or Asia well before they knew of the Middle East let alone the name of Jesus.

You deliberately and persistently dismiss context while making no enquiry whatsoever re the possibility of another way of seeing.

You are in fact pushing the picture of God that Satan desires people to have. That, my dear Jack, is taking the Lord's name (his character) in vain......or maybe you are also of the persuasion that this Law no longer applies?......this also is the Devil's angle!

You think I might go to Hell? lol