Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Not found in Scripture.
Jesus comes with the angels to the Mount of Olives.
The church remains in Paradise until the New Jerusalem comes to earth.
Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul
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Jesus comes with the angels to the Mount of Olives.
The church remains in Paradise until the New Jerusalem comes to earth.
What you have written there is what is NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE.
When Lord Jesus comes, He will gather His saints that are resurrected on that day, and bring them with Him from Heaven (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). Then those of His saints still alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and them, ALL... go to the Mount of Olives east of Jerusalem, AS WRITTEN IN ZECHARIAH 14.
There is NOTHING written in God's Word about the Church being raptured to 'live' in the clouds while the "great tribulation" is going on, and then returning to earth later. That is all a theory from the false pre-trib rapture school.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
THE CATCHING AWAY OF THE SAINTS
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
THE THIEF
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh....
DRUNKEN SERVANT
...49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;..
NOW CHECK THIS OUT
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord(QUOTING JESUS' WORDS), that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
THE CATCHING AWAY OF THE SAINTS
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
THE THIEF
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
THE DRUNKEN SERVANT
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
You have been debunked.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
and yet the postrib rapture doctrine is unaware of Jesus declaration of multiple comings, and rev 14 gathering would then be ahead of the "dead in Christ resurrection" rapture . Because that would place the dead is Christ resurrection AFTER the rev 14 gathering,
Making 1 thes 4 a lie.
There is no way the rapture is post trib.
It is impossible.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
There is no rapture taking place in Revelation ch14
But this is: Rev 14:12-13
v12 - Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
v13 -And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
Saints continuing to die and the LORD continuing to gather their spirits Home.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
That is concise gathering., and it is before the end of the trib.
Another thing postrib teachers have never noticed is that the 144k are "firstfruits"
Ethnic Jews. Messianic Jews.
They are called firstfruits because they PRECEEDE main harvest of mesianic Jews.( which begs the question,how did they get there, in heaven at the first of rev 14? Rapture?)
Rev 14 is the gathering of messianic Jews. Firstfruits at the beginnig of rev 14, then the main harvest of Jews,by Jesus,holding a sickle,sitting on a cloud above the earth.
Remember we are not to change revelation.
That would be really bad
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Reaping thru death = verse 13 determines the reaping = "Blessed are those who die in the Lord from this moment on"
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
It is not "either< > or"
That verse does not diminish the gathering of rev 14 as a concise gathering.
But I understand your cunning distortions.
Again,you sure you want to distort the book of rev?
You aware of the consequences?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
At the very least you should see that chapter 14 is after the Antichrist, as spoken by the Prophets, Gospel and Apostles.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Yes, because there is no rapture to be blessed by, after that point. Only those beheaded will be redeemed. Only death is blessed, as all who remain alive will have the mark, and killed at Armageddon.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
You just proved there are no living saints left on earth to supposedly rapture at the second coming.
Yet another pretrib doctrine authentication!
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Thanks
Yes the church is gone and the Lord is now gathering the Jews.
That is why ONLY THE JEWS are sealed against the flying scorpions.
The above Matthew 24:37-39 Scripture is Jesus warning His saints that the days of His coming will like the days of Noah, the DECEIVED were eating and drinking, giving and taking in marriage, until the flood came and TOOK them all away. The ONLY ones who did NOT get TAKEN were Noah and his family aboard the ARK.
So you have sorely missed Lord Jesus' Message of warning there if you think that meant to escape the tribulation. You should go back to Genesis and learn about that time of Noah and the flood. The ARK stayed 150 days on top of the flood waters, and Noah and his family were SEALED inside the ARK by God Himself. For the end, Lord Jesus is our ARK of protection. We are to stay in Christ for the coming tribulation, still working for Him.
Here is the Luke 17 version of Jesus' WARNING against being the first one TAKEN...
Luke 17:36-37
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
KJV
And here below is the Matthew 24:28 parallel to that answer Jesus gave His disciples when they asked Him, "Where, Lord?" about that first one TAKEN!
Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
KJV
That reveals Lord Jesus was pointing to the idea of being the first one TAKEN as being taken to Satan's host!!! The fowls that will eat on a dead "carcase"!
It ain't... about a rapture of the Church at all!!!
And because you tried to HIDE that answer by Lord Jesus in Luke 17:37 and Matthew 24:28, it means you are NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
Well, yes there is!!! You need to read your Bible for yourself.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV
That part above, "from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven" is the 1 Thessalonians 4:17 event of the saints still alive on earth being "caught up" to Jesus in the air.
So, every unsaved person is not taken to hell but taken to a bird feast?
Are these birds in hell?
Demon birds or something?
Or, is this only the armies of antichrist?
One saint is sleeping in a bed with a soldier of antichrist, to be taken and be eaten by birds?
One saint is grinding at the mill with a soldier of antichrist too?...
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left....
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.
LOL
37
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left....
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken TO BE EATEN BY BIRDS, and the other left.
LOL
37
The 1st raptured part already in heaven preparing to return with Christ...
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
This is the 2nd part of the rapture...
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The unsaved are those first ones TAKEN according to Lord Jesus in that Luke 17:37 verse. But nice try in your vain attempt to twist His warning against being TAKEN.
Those who designed the FIRST ONE TAKEN and LEFT-BEHIND rhetoric to be about Christ's Church are working for Satan's host and are not deceived, but know they follow the devil. You just have yet to realize that's who you are following with those Pre-trib Rapture first one 'taken' ideas. I just hope you come out of that deception before the coming pseudo-Christ gets here and sets himself up in place of Lord Jesus.
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