The Son of Man returns with and for his people

[CadyandZoe]

You brought up "naturalization" which you're unable to corroborate from the NT; and the NT people of God are one and the same as the NT Body of Christ, in which circumcision availeth nothing.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

I'm sorry, I thought you new what the word "naturalization" meant.

And I don't understand how a Bible reader can be unaware that God made a covenant with the 12 tribes.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Unsurprisingly, you continue to confuse race and religion. Perhaps you don't realize what you are doing.

It is Jews by religion of whom John wrote, those who deny the Son and thus also deny the Father.

Multitudes exist today 2,000 years later.

During the time of John, both were the same thing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You brought up "naturalization" which you're unable to corroborate from the NT; and the NT people of God are one and the same as the NT Body of Christ, in which circumcision availeth nothing.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

I maintain that the "people of God," as defined by God himself is a distinct category from the body of Christ. The obvious difference is circumcision. The people of God must circumcise males within 8 days of birth, just as Mary did for the child Jesus. Circumcision is NOT required for those entering the body of Christ. Do you not understand this?

 

[covenantee]

During the time of John, both were the same thing.

No. Have you so soon forgotten the Scriptures I provided of the Gentiles within Israel, who today follow the religion of the Jews i.e. talmudism?

They were and are known as proselytes.

They exist by the multitude today, around the world.

 

[covenantee]

I'm sorry, I thought you new what the word "naturalization" meant.

And I don't understand how a Bible reader can be unaware that God made a covenant with the 12 tribes.

God made a covenant with those faithful and obedient to Him within the 12 tribes.

He did not make a covenant with the unfaithful and disobedient within the 12 tribes.

Instead, He slew them by the thousands.

 

[covenantee]

I maintain that the "people of God," as defined by God himself is a distinct category from the body of Christ. The obvious difference is circumcision. The people of God must circumcise males within 8 days of birth, just as Mary did for the child Jesus. Circumcision is NOT required for those entering the body of Christ. Do you not understand this?

Do you not understand that the NT people of God are one and the same as the NT Body of Christ, in which circumcision availeth nothing?

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature

 

[CadyandZoe]

No. Have you so soon forgotten the Scriptures I provided of the Gentiles within Israel, who today follow the religion of the Jews i.e. talmudism?

They were and are known as proselytes.

They exist by the multitude today, around the world.

No, I didn't forget them. I pointed out that the scriptures you cited command that the men get circumcised. They enter the people of God. Those who enter the body of Christ do not need to get circumcised.

 

[CadyandZoe]

God made a covenant with those faithful and obedient to Him within the 12 tribes.

He did not make a covenant with the unfaithful and disobedient within the 12 tribes.

Instead, He slew them by the thousands.

No. God made a covenant with all those in the 12 tribes. The fact that he punished some of them is irrelevant.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Do you not understand that the NT people of God are one and the same as the NT Body of Christ, in which circumcision availeth nothing?

No. That is YOUR understanding, which is incorrect. The "people" of God are the 12 Tribes of Israel. The body of Christ are the children of God.

 

[covenantee]

No, I didn't forget them. I pointed out that the scriptures you cited command that the men get circumcised. They enter the people of God. Those who enter the body of Christ do not need to get circumcised.

Circumcision was the sign of faith and obedience.

Subsequent unfaithfulness and disobedience was a death sentence.

God slew thousands of circumcised Israelites who apostasized into unfaithfulness and disobedience.

Their circumcision did not save them.

 

[covenantee]

No. God made a covenant with all those in the 12 tribes. The fact that he punished some of them is irrelevant.

You can't be serious.

God didn't consider it irrelevant. He slew thousands on multiple occasions.

Would you like to tell us why?

If you think it's irrelevant, then maybe God just enjoyed wasting Israelites?

Please enlighten us.

 

[covenantee]

No. That is YOUR understanding, which is incorrect. The "people" of God are the 12 Tribes of Israel. The body of Christ are the children of God.

The only people of God are those in the Body of Christ.

As John has declared.

No others.

 

[Keraz]

The "people" of God are the 12 Tribes of Israel. The body of Christ are the children of God.

This is your fundamental error.
There are not 2 peoples of God. John 17:22, Ephesians 4:4-6, +

With the Twelve Tribes of Israel, surely you know that the Jews represent only the 2 tribes of Judah and Bejamin? There were and still is many from the other tribes and Gentiles, who have converted to Judaism and become Jews.
But God's secret is the whereabouts and who are today the 10 Northern tribes. They were exiled for a decreed period, Ezekiel 4:4-6, and it was them who Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24
He was successful and we Christians are the result. We Christians ARE the people of God, by faith and by descent!

 

[strepho]

Revelation chapter 19, Jesus returns 7th trump with army, that's saints. Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48, the Zadok are the Election. They will be priests and judges during millennium. The position for Elect can't be volunteered for. They were appointed by God in the first earth age. The millennium is about teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Circumcision was the sign of faith and obedience.

Subsequent unfaithfulness and disobedience was a death sentence.

God slew thousands of circumcised Israelites who apostasized into unfaithfulness and disobedience.

Their circumcision did not save them.

Of course. Never said otherwise.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You can't be serious.

God didn't consider it irrelevant. He slew thousands on multiple occasions.

Would you like to tell us why?

If you think it's irrelevant, then maybe God just enjoyed wasting Israelites?

Please enlighten us.

I'm glad you asked. Sarcasm and incredulity aside, when I say "irrelevant", I refer to God's "hesed" -- his covenant faithfulness. The prophetic word characterizes Israel as an unfaithful wife and a whore. By contrast, God is pictured as a faithful husband. God tells Israel through the prophetic word that he will never leave her. He will never abandon her. He may punish her but he will never leave her.

Paul the apostle answers this same question in his epistle to the Romans. Throughout her history, Israel continually stumbled. She was idolatrous, unfaithful, and disobedient. Ultimately, she murdered God's son. So Paul asks, "[T]hey did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be!" And here Paul's word is in agreement with the prophetic word wherein it says, "God's hesed is everlasting."

Thus, the 12 tribes are the people of God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The only people of God are those in the Body of Christ.

As John has declared.

No others.

John 1:12

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,​

As I said, John calls us God's "children" not his "people."

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is your fundamental error.
There are not 2 peoples of God. John 17:22, Ephesians 4:4-6, +

With the Twelve Tribes of Israel, surely you know that the Jews represent only the 2 tribes of Judah and Bejamin? There were and still is many from the other tribes and Gentiles, who have converted to Judaism and become Jews.
But God's secret is the whereabouts and who are today the 10 Northern tribes. They were exiled for a decreed period, Ezekiel 4:4-6, and it was them who Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24
He was successful and we Christians are the result. We Christians ARE the people of God, by faith and by descent!

I don't think Christians represent the Ten Tribes. Ezekiel the prophet speaks about the unification of the two houses. Consider Ezekiel 37:15-23 Here God indicates the unification of the two houses using an illustration. Before I get to that, I want to relate a bit of background.

As you might recall, at the schism of Shechem, the 10 northern tribes seceded from Israel because Rehoboam overtaxed the people. 1 Kings 12. Jeroboam returned from exile in Egypt in order to plead with Rehoboam to reduce the tax load. Not only did Rehoboam refuse, he decided to place additional taxes on the people. The schism of Shechem can be understood as a conflict between two men: Rehoboam who wanted to become more feared than his father, and Jeroboam, who wanted to live free in his own land.

In any case, upon hearing the word of Rehoboam, Jeroboam declared independence from the house of Rehoboam and established a house for himself. Jeroboam decided to build a new capital city and he established two other places, other than Jerusalem, for Israel to worship. Jeroboam built Shechem in the land of Ephraim. Given this background, we take a quick look at Ezekiel 37.

God illustrates the unification of the two houses with sticks. He tells Ezekiel to take one stick to represent one of the houses and another stick to represent the other house.* Ezekiel is to hold the two sticks together in his hand. The meaning of the illustration seems clear. God is going to bring the two houses together and hold them together by his power.

God refers to one of the sticks in this way. "‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and all the house of Israel, his companions." Ephraim is mentioned because, as it says in 1 Kings, "Jeroboam built Shechem in the land of Ephraim." And before the unification,

Ezekiel 37:20-23

The sticks on which you write will be in your hand before their eyes. Say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations and no longer be divided into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves with their idols, or with their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. And they will be My people, and I will be their God.​

This doesn't describe Christians at all. Christians weren't scattered among the nations; they became Christians in their respective nations. Christians were never part of the Davidic dynasty. They never defiled themselves with idols or with detestable things. The two sticks prophecy is understood in the context of the schism of Shechem. A nation was split into two houses, and God promises to reunite the two houses again under King David.

I believe that Jesus will rule over them during the Millennial period.
__________________
* House here means "dynasty"

 

[covenantee]

I'm glad you asked. Sarcasm and incredulity aside, when I say "irrelevant", I refer to God's "hesed" -- his covenant faithfulness. The prophetic word characterizes Israel as an unfaithful wife and a whore. By contrast, God is pictured as a faithful husband. God tells Israel through the prophetic word that he will never leave her. He will never abandon her. He may punish her but he will never leave her.

Paul the apostle answers this same question in his epistle to the Romans. Throughout her history, Israel continually stumbled. She was idolatrous, unfaithful, and disobedient. Ultimately, she murdered God's son. So Paul asks, "[T]hey did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be!" And here Paul's word is in agreement with the prophetic word wherein it says, "God's hesed is everlasting."

Thus, the 12 tribes are the people of God.

Those faithful and obedient to God and His Son inside and outside of the 12 tribes were and are the covenant people of God.

No others.

 

[covenantee]

John 1:12

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,​

As I said, John calls us God's "children" not his "people."

You don't consider children to be people?

What do you consider them to be?