PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

[St. Joseph]

The souls of the dead in Christ. John saw the souls of the dead in Christ in heaven and wrote about it (Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 20:4).

I must stivk with rev 4 being the rapture. But doent matter either way.

 

[Biblethumper]

Paul addressed the Pretribulation Rapture teachers in 2Th 2:1-5. When someone told the Thessalonians the rapture was at hand or could happen at any moment, the Thessalonians became confused about what Paul taught them. The fellow who said this was a Pretribulation Rapture teacher because when he said the rapture could happen at any moment the Antichrist had not yet emerged on the scene. In other words, he was teaching the rapture occurs before the Antichrist rises to power. In order for the Thessalonians to become confused about what Paul taught them they must have esteemed the Pretribulation Rapture teacher as Pastors are esteemed by believers today; otherwise the believers would not have taken him seriously. When Paul heard about this he wrote the letter recorded in 2Th. 2:1-5 and told the Thessalonians not to listen to the Pretribulation Rapture teacher because the rapture or our gathering to the Lord does not occur until after the the falling away and after the Antichrist seats himself in Jerusalem displaying himself as God. The scriptures tell us the Antichrist doesn’t seat himself in Jerusalem until 3 1/2 years after he emerges on the scene.

2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

Yes we will not be here when the Antichrist is revealed for 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8. 6 Now you know what holds him back so that he can be revealed when his time comes. 7 The hidden plan to live without any law is at work now, but it will be secret only until the one who is holding it back is out of the way. 8 Then the person who is lawless will be revealed. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit working within the church, we Christians are keeping a lid on things but when we are no longer here evil is free to do as it pleases just as in Noah’s day.

 

[Enoch111]

There is no difference between the day of Christ and the day of the Lord.

There absolutely is and you should acquaint yourself with the huge difference.

 

[Keraz]

Yes we will not be here when the Antichrist is revealed for 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8. 6

Who then; are God's holy people seen in the holy Land under the power of the 'beast'- Anti-Christ? Revelation 13:7, Daniel 7:25
Do not say they ae Jews, because we know from Zechariah 12:10-14 that the remnant of the Jews only come to repentance when Jesus Returns.

The common belief of a rapture to heaven of the Church, is false and will not happen.
We Christians will be on earth during all the end time events and when Jesus Returns, he will gather us to Him, in Jerusalem. Matthew 24:31, 1 Thess 4:17. Most of the faithful Christians will be kept in a place of safety on earth. Revelation 12:6 & 14

 

[Keraz]

The truth about our future:

Jeremiah 33:1-3 The Word of the Lord came to Jeremiah while he was imprisoned. The Lord says: If you call to Me, I will answer and tell you of great and mysterious things that you are unaware of. \
Jeremiah prophesied to the House of Judah, many years after the House of Israel was taken into exile by the Assyrians. He foretold how things would be after the Babylonian conquest of Judah, but this was not completely fulfilled then or after the Roman conquest of Judah in 70-135 AD.

Jeremiah 33:4-5 & 10 The houses of this city and the great buildings of Judah which are now destroyed by the sword of judgement, will be filled with dead bodies. They are those slain by the Lord Himself, because He has turned away from them. The Lord says: See this Land, now in ruins and devoid of people and animals.

Again; not fulfilled as yet. Jeremiah 9:10-11, Isaiah 4:3-6, Zephaniah 1:1-18

Ezekiel 21:14...swing the great sword of slaughter three times, whirling about Judah.
As Ezekiel says: there will be a triple fulfilment of the punishment of Judah. Two of these have happened, by Babylon and Rome but the next is ‘by the Lord Himself’, by the means of a Coronal Mass Ejection, an explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26 This event is prophesied and graphically described over 100 times in the Bible, as ‘the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath’. The entire Middle East will become ‘ruined and devoid of people and animals’. This was not the case with the two previous punishments. Ezekiel 6:14, Hosea 4:3, Zechariah 3:10

But for now, as we await this sudden and terrifying Day that the Lord will take action, we must:
Isaiah 35:3-4 Brace the arms that are limp, steady the knees that give way, say to the anxious: Be strong, fear not. Your God comes to save you, with His vengeance and retribution. Jeremiah 30:4-11, Zephaniah 3:16-20, Hebrews 10:37-39

Isaiah 35:5 THEN the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped. Isaiah 29:24 The confused will gain understanding and the obstinate will accept instruction. Isaiah 6:9-10

The truth about this coming event is not generally known among believers. The reason is due to beliefs in false theories, Isaiah 29:9-12, or a lack of interest in prophecy. They remain ‘in the dark’ about what will happen. 2 Thess. 5:1-11
Only during or after it happens, will understanding be given to all those who have been unable to comprehend the Prophetic Word. They will say: It was there; in plain language, but I couldn’t see it!

Soon after that, many prophesies say how the holy Land will be regenerated;

Jeremiah 33:6-9 In this Land, will be heard once more the sounds of joy and gladness, of weddings and celebrations. People will shout: Praise the Lord, for He is good, His love endures forever’, as they offer thanksgiving in the House of the Lord. By the Word of the Lord: In this place and in all its towns, now ruined and cleared of all peoples and animals, flocks and herds will once more graze. My people will receive all the blessings that I have promised to them. Ezekiel 36:8-12, Amos 9:13-15

Isaiah 35:10 The Lord’s people, set free, will come back and enter Zion with shouts of triumph, with great joy and singing praises to their God. Suffering and sorrow will flee away. Zechariah 9:16-17, Romans 9:24-26
The House of the Lord: The new Temple will be built in Jerusalem. Haggai 2:6-9

Great are the promises the Lord has made to His faithful Christian people. We will indeed ‘sing praises to the Lord’, when we are settled into our inheritance, all of the holy Land.

 

[Timtofly]

The souls of the dead in Christ and His angels.


Who said there is no rapture? The disagreement people have is over the timing of the rapture in relation to the tribulation. Or did you mean to ask "if there is no pre-trib rapture"?

If there was a pre-trib rapture and we were first caught up in the air and then taken to heaven, then explain to me what the point would be of being caught up to Him in the air rather than just being caught up to Him in heaven?

No one is caught up in Revelation 19, nor Revelation 20, nor Revelation 21.

The 2 witnesses are not raptured. They ascend after coming back to life. Jesus was not raptured in Acts 1:9-10. It has been called ascending. Rapture is more a sudden snatching away. Rapture happens before any one even realizes it happens. Ascending is a slower process while it is being watched by those on the earth.

At the same time the firmament dissolves and the angels come to earth, the church is now gathered in the former firmament, now "just air". They are glorified in view of all on earth below. The church does not come to earth then, and definitely not the New Jerusalem. The angels and Jesus are on earth for the final harvest. Matthew 13 and Matthew 25. That is during the Thunders and Trumpets.

If the tribulation was over, why send angels at all...., to fight the birds over the removal of the dead? The angels come to transport living humans to their eternal destination judgment, to determine if they are sheep or goats. Later to separate the wheat and tares. That is the point of the tribulation, to judge those still alive on the earth. The tribulation is not some "preparation time" for a thief in the night moment. We are to be prepared for the thief in the night moment, not prepped for the tribulation.

 

[David in NJ]

Jesus said that if we could receive it Elijah had come (John the Baptist) no? So do you think the day of the Lord started then? But let's say you are right, and that the witnesses come 'before' the day of the Lord. So if the Rapture kicks off or starts the day of the Lord, that is a perfect fit!.

Elijah comes twice

 

[David in NJ]

If no rapture,who are they that come with Christ at his coming in Thessalonians?

The spirits/souls of every Saint who has died = just as it says in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Revelation ch6

 

[No Pre-TB]

Yes we will not be here when the Antichrist is revealed for 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8. 6

You may want to read it again.

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,

1. When Christ comes and we are gathered together unto him
2. That day shall not come, the day Christ appears and we are gathered to him, until:
A. The apostasia happens first
B. And then the man of sin is revealed

The church will go through a great apostasy and witness the man of sin. That puts us during the 2 witnesses and the beast kingdom. Remember, the resurrection is on the last day. Not 7 years before the last day.

 

[Timtofly]

You may want to read it again.

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,

1. When Christ comes and we are gathered together unto him
2. That day shall not come, the day Christ appears and we are gathered to him, until:
A. The apostasia happens first
B. And then the man of sin is revealed

The church will go through a great apostasy and witness the man of sin. That puts us during the 2 witnesses and the beast kingdom. Remember, the resurrection is on the last day. Not 7 years before the last day.

You are not paying attention to the difference between the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord or Christ. The Day of Christ is the 1,000 years. The 1,000 years is not before the apostasy. The Second Coming itself can happen before the apostasy. The Second Coming can happen before Satan is revealed. It is the 1,000 years that happens afterwards, the Day part that includes the entire 1,000 years. Day is not an era of time, leading up to the Second Coming. Day is not the end times. Day is not the 24 hour period which includes the thief in the night moment. The Day of Christ is the entire 1,000 year reign.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

You contradicted the scriptures below.
2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

You have conflated and misunderstood the whole passage. In Thess. 1 Paul is teaching the Thessalonians about the Rapture of Jesus which will take them out BEFORE God's Wrath falls.

1 Thess. 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thess. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thess. 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. {{ So, THAT DAY....the Wrath of God...does not see us the Church in it. }}

To understand this one must understand that God's Wrath is when God also allows the Anti-Christ to go forth conquering as the Beast. Thus the passage you are referring to (2. Thess. 2) does not say anything about DEPARTING the Faith, its speaking about the church DEPARTING this earth (see VERSE 1, a Gathering unto Jesus). I wrote a blog on this years ago that cites the Falling Away as really meaning the Departure. So, in 2 Thess. 2 Paul is writing them a letter rebuking them for FEARING that they were in God's Wrath (DOTL) he says did I not tell you these things when I was with you? Now I will tell you what 2. Thess. 2 really means below, then I will post my blog in the next post. My calling has been unto Prophecy for 38 years, it never ceases to amaze me that people who can't decipher the scriptures, insist on teaching what they do not understand.

2 Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech (URGENTLY Ask) you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (VERY IMPORTANT, this is the DEPARTURE seen below)

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

{{{ So, we URGENTLY ASK you to understand via Jesus' coming for us to GATHER US unto him, that you do not be troubled nor FAEAR, that you are in God's Wrath or the Day of the Lord, you know the one he told them in 1 Thess. 1:10 that they would be delivered from and in 1 Thess. 5 that THAT DAY, could not overtake us like a thief, because we are Children of God (the light). Thus Paul is rebuking them for FEARING that they were in the DOTL or God's Wrath as some had told them, in a letter, saying it was Paul's teachings. }}}

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(God's Wrath) shall not come, except there come a falling away(DEPARTURE) first [of the Church], and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

{{{ Do not allow anyone to fool you, for God's Wrath CAN NOT FALL on this earth until the Church DEPARTS first, AND The Man of Christ be revealed. So, the Church is Raptured, and the Anti-Christ is on the scene, (as the E.U. President he accepts Israel as an E.U. Member State), only THEN, after those two events can the Wrath of God fall so QUIT FEARING you are in God's Wrath !! That is Paul meaning. }}}

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

{{{ The Holy Spirit working through the Church STOPS the Anti-Christ from coming forth, once we DEPART he will then be allowed to go forth conquering at the Wrath of God, for 1260 days. }}}

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 some odd years.

 

[dad]

Elijah comes twice

If the Rapture kicks off the day of the Lord, that matters how?

By the way if Elijah were one of the two endtime witnesses, that would be once...the other time you claim he also comes is..?

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes we will not be here when the Antichrist is revealed for 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8. 6 Now you know what holds him back so that he can be revealed when his time comes. 7 The hidden plan to live without any law is at work now, but it will be secret only until the one who is holding it back is out of the way. 8 Then the person who is lawless will be revealed. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit working within the church, we Christians are keeping a lid on things but when we are no longer here evil is free to do as it pleases just as in Noah’s day.

"Yes" The Church Will Be Present on Earth, There Won't Be A Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Don't Be Deceived

"The Church" seen in Luke 21 below, those who are persecuted for the name of Jesus Christ, they will be eyewitnesses of the future great tribulation and second coming of Jesus in the heavens, your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture would be false

The Tribulation verses 25-26 below, the Second Coming verses 27-28 below

"Yes" The Church On Earth, Hated By The World For The Name Of Jesus Verse 17

Luke 21:17 & 25-28KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[David in NJ]

Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

I have evolved with much study on this. I used to argue to all that there had to be this great Falling Away also. All because of this one passage. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I do agree that the world gets far more evil towards the (now) end, as foretold in Romans chapter 1, and as Peter said, there will be scoffers in the last days etc. etc. But I do not think the True Church can "Fall Away", either you are of Christ/God or you are not, and will get left behind by the Bridegroom. Anyway, here is my understanding of 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

“Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction…” – 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) This verse is used by many and they say it implies a "Falling Away" from the faith. But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

The word is used in verb form a total of 15 times in the New Testament, and only three of these have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13, 1 Timothy 4:1, and Hebrews 3:12). In other settings, the word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19), departing from ungodly men (1 Timothy 6:5), departing from the temple (Luke 2:27), departing from the body (2 Corinthians 12:8), and departing from persons (Acts 12:10 and Luke 4:13).

This insight about the use and meaning of the word was certainly compelling, but the argument Mr. Ice presented that was most convicting was his revelation that the first seven English translations of the Bible rendered the noun, apostasia, as either “departure” or “departing.”

They were as follows:

1.The Wycliffe Bible (1384)

2.The Tyndale Bible (1526)

3. The Coverdale Bible (1535)

4. The Cranmer Bible (1539)

5. The Great Bible (1540)

6. The Beeches Bible (1576)

7. The Geneva Bible (1608)

Mr. Ice also noted that the Bible used by the Western world from 400 AD to the 1500s — Jerome’s Latin translation known as “The Vulgate” — rendered apostasia with the Latin word, discessio, which means “departure.” The first translation of the word to mean apostasy in an English Bible did not occur until 1611 when the King James Version was issued. So, why did the King James translators introduce a completely new rendering of the word as “falling away”? The best guess is that they were taking a stab at the false teachings of Catholicism.

One other point Mr. Ice made that I think is significant is that Paul used a definite article with the word apostasia. The significance of this is emphasized by Daniel Davey in a thesis he wrote for the Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary:

Since the Greek language does not need an article to make the noun definite, it becomes clear that with the usage of the article, reference is being made to something in particular. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 the word apostasia is prefaced by the definite article which means that Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.

In light of this grammatical point, Tommy observed that “the use of the definite article would support the notion that Paul spoke of a clear, discernible notion.” And that notion he had already identified in verse 1 when he stated that he was writing about “our gathering together to Him [Jesus].” This interpretation also corresponds to the point that Paul makes in verses 6 and 7 where he states that the man of lawlessness will not come until what “restrains” him “is taken out of the way.”

And what it is that restrains evil in the world today? The Holy Spirit working through the Church. I think when the Church Departs, the Anti-Christ will be free to come to power.

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1100 some odd years.

Church departing before Tribulation and the Antichrist???

Does not say that it in 2 Thessalonians and it does not say that in 1 Thessalonians

There are no OT Prophecies or Gospel Declarations or Apostles writings of any "Church" departing BEFORE the Antichrist.

Is it of God, of satan, or of man to speak what God has not spoken???

 

[Truth7t7]

But a guy named Tommy Ice has shed some exceptional light on this passage.

Mr. Ice has pointed out that the Greek noun, apostasia, is used only twice in the New Testament. The other occurrence is in Acts 21:21 where it states that an accusation was made against Paul that he was “teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake [apostasia] Moses.”

Tommy Ice is a (Dallas Theological Seminary Grad), do you expect anything other than support for a pre-trib rapture that will never take place

Yes the Greek word (Apostasia) for (Departure/Falling Away) is the very foundation of the English word (Apostasy) and Tommy wants to claim this is a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven (Big Smiles)

Even C.I. Scofield the modern father of dispensationalism in his 1909 reference Bible used (Apostasy) of the Church from the faith

Perhaps Tommy Ice is partaking in the very word (Apostasy) he's trying to change

Merriam-Webster

(Apostasy)

1
: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith

2
: abandonment of a previous loyalty :

 

[David in NJ]

Tommy Ice is a (Dallas Theological Seminary Grad), do you expect anything other than support for a pre-trib rapture that will never take place

Yes the Greek word (Apostasia) for (Departure/Falling Away) is the very foundation of the English word (Apostasy) and Tommy wants to claim this is a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven (Big Smiles)

Even C.I. Scofield the modern father of dispensationalism in his 1909 reference Bible used (Apostasy) of the Church from the faith

Perhaps Tommy Ice is partaking in the very word (Apostasy) he's trying to change

Merriam-Webster

(Apostasy)

1
: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith

2
: abandonment of a previous loyalty :

Is Dallas theocrazy Summary the Holy Grail of edumakation today amongst the chuchers?

Pre-fibbers must change and alter scriptural authority in order to support their grand escape.

 

[David in NJ]

If the Rapture kicks off the day of the Lord, that matters how?

By the way if Elijah were one of the two endtime witnesses, that would be once...the other time you claim he also comes is..?

Never place the Rapture before the Resurrection, which is what satan does = reversal of God's words/commands,

AND

the Resurrection only takes place at His Second Coming

AND

there is only one Second Coming of Christ

1 Thess 4:13-18
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[Truth7t7]

Pre-fibbers must change and alter scriptural authority in order to support their grand escape.

Same applies to a Millennial Kingdom on this earth Dave, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The Ebd)

 

[David in NJ]

Same applies to a Millennial Kingdom on this earth Dave, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The Ebd)

YES, the LORD will Return with fire and judgement = i fully agree