How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[VictoryinJesus]

He lived in the land, But he never received What God promised to him.

He said that they would not recieve it yet because the sin of the amorite was not yet complete. In fact he said it would be 400 years..

remember, they had to purchase a plot of land in what was promised to bury his wife

Gen 23 Sarah lived one hundred and twenty-seven years; these were the years of the life of Sarah. 2 So Sarah died in Kirjath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah and to weep for her.
3 Then Abraham stood up from before his dead, and spoke to the sons of Heth, saying, 4 “I am a foreigner and a visitor among you. Give me property for a burial place among you, that I may bury my dead out of my sight.”
9 that he may give me the cave of Machpelah which he has, which is at the end of his field. Let him give it to me at the full price, as property for a burial place among you.”

The land was only promised to Israel. It was not promised to the word. So the heart is not the land. it does not fit.

To me burial place speaks of “property for a burial”, also shown in the woman with the alabaster box anointed his head with oil. and he said to leave her alone for she prepared him for his burial.

Romans 7:2-6 For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress (shown in the law of jealousies she will be an “adulteress” a curse among her people, her belly will swell and her thigh rot)

… : but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law(the woman loosed and free IS there too in the Law of jealousies; even saying in the law of Jealousies she will be free and conceive seed;
so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The Law jealousies is about a jealous husband who gives his wife bitter water to drink to see if she has turned asides to another.

Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (this is what the free woman does not guilty called no adulterous in the law of Jealousies) she conceives seed, dead to the law of Jealousies by the body of Christ, that you should bring forth unto God

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law(under the law of Jealousies being adulterous), did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.(a curse among her people)

6] But now we are delivered from the law( the Law of Jealousies called adulterous) by the body of Christ, (delivered from the curse)that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What does that have to do with the heart?
Just sharing about “give me a burial place among you” …how many times is the burial place spoken of as “buried in Him”?

What property means to me is:
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


I do get that was to the Jews. But I will never look at the bitter water ritual (or what I called a ritual) the same again for what it reveals of an adulterous woman and a woman who is free and conceives seed.

Where is your burial plot?

 

[amigo de christo]

With regard to the Catholic Church (not "RCC") - what would that be?

 

[Waiting on him]

Oh boy.

 

[amigo de christo]

The progressive church is a betrayal to the one true church of the glorious Lord Christ Jesus .
And no lamb gonna heed its lies .

 

[Lizbeth]

To me burial place speaks of “property for a burial”, also shown in the woman with the alabaster box anointed his head with oil. and he said to leave her alone for she prepared him for his burial.

Romans 7:2-6 For the woman which has an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lives; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress (shown in the law of jealousies she will be an “adulteress” a curse among her people, her belly will swell and her thigh rot)

… : but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law(the woman loosed and free IS there too in the Law of jealousies; even saying in the law of Jealousies she will be free and conceive seed;
so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The Law jealousies is about a jealous husband who gives his wife bitter water to drink to see if she has turned asides to another.

Wherefore, my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. (this is what the free woman does not guilty called no adulterous in the law of Jealousies) she conceives seed, dead to the law of Jealousies by the body of Christ, that you should bring forth unto God

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law(under the law of Jealousies being adulterous), did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.(a curse among her people)

6] But now we are delivered from the law( the Law of Jealousies called adulterous) by the body of Christ, (delivered from the curse)that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What does that have to do with the heart?
Just sharing about “give me a burial place among you” …how many times is the burial place spoken of as “buried in Him”?

What property means to me is:
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.


I do get that was to the Jews. But I will never look at the bitter water ritual (or what I called a ritual) the same again for what it reveals of an adulterous woman and a woman who is free and conceives seed.

Where is your burial plot?

Amen. Buried with Him in baptism. And we get tested and tried with bitter waters. The Lord is a jealous God. It's so wonderful how the gospel is seen and preached again and again in the Law! Thanks for sharing that.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Amen. Buried with Him in baptism. And we get tested and tried with bitter waters. The Lord is a jealous God. It's so wonderful how the gospel is seen and preached again and again in the Law! Thanks for sharing that.

I am so happy that you could see Him in it. I was afraid it would come off as more insanity and as having no significance. Thank you for sharing that it helped you. It means a lot to me because it has been five years for me to see that in the bitter water and the curse and the Law of Jealousies…just what He has done for us by the body of Christ in deliverance from death and the curse. It means a lot to me because at first when I read that in the OT I was standing outside one night with our daughter(about five years ago). She asked me what was wrong. I told her about what I had read and how it sounded like a satanic ritual to me. It stayed on my mind. I kept wondering if I know God at all. I keep asking Him why does it sound like a satanic ritual “who are you?” is this what you are for God things that sound like to me something satanic? …because to me it sounded so much like something devil worship would do. It was a while after that I sat late one night by myself and for the first time I saw Christ in it. I started to cry. But still …I put the passage about the priest and the bitter water aside it being settled that the message was what Christ did to deliver from the curse. It wasn’t until this thread that it came more into focus just how significant that one small passage was there in the Old Testament; by His body; being delivered from death and the curse to conceive fruit. Just sharing with you how it was a little at a time why I am so happy to read your post.

 

[Lizbeth]

With regard to the Catholic Church (not "RCC") - what would that be?

The true church is made up of those who are born of His Spirit and thus are reconciled to, joined to, and personally know and experience the Lord by that Spirit. "If any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of His."

I am so happy that you could see Him in it. I was afraid it would come off as more insanity and as having no significance. Thank you for sharing that it helped you. It means a lot to me because it has been five years for me to see that in the bitter water and the curse and the Law of Jealousies…just what He has done for us by the body of Christ in deliverance from death and the curse. It means a lot to me because at first when I read that in the OT I was standing outside one night with our daughter(about five years ago). She asked me what was wrong. I told her about what I had read and how it sounded like a satanic ritual to me. It stayed on my mind. I kept wondering if I know God at all. I keep asking Him why does it sound like a satanic ritual “who are you?” is this what you are for God things that sound like to me something satanic? …because to me it sounded so much like something devil worship would do. It was a while after that I sat late one night by myself and for the first time I saw Christ in it. I started to cry. But still …I put the passage about the priest and the bitter water aside it being settled that the message was what Christ did to deliver from the curse. It wasn’t until this thread that it came more into focus just how significant that one small passage was there in the Old Testament; by His body; being delivered from death and the curse to conceive fruit. Just sharing with you how it was a little at a time why I am so happy to read your post.

Yes, there is a lot in the Old Testament that can seem disturbing. But "these things happened to them for ensamples." It's like Israel prophetically walked through all these living parables of the Messiah and gospel to come. Not an easy calling, that's for sure.....since of course there is a warning in this law of jealousy as well....expect some wives actually had committed adultery and didn't pass the test. Message to the church is that we need to pass the testing and proving of our faith and not be in spiritual adultery.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Lord is a jealous God.

Hoping this doesn’t ruin the moment by more questions. I’m left now with another question. In the Old Testament passage about a wife that turns aside to another…it begins right before this with the LORD telling them to take the lepers and any man and woman that be not clean without the gate. To me this is where Jesus Christ suffered without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood. It also speaks of any that touch a dead body be put without. New Testament Jesus touched the dead and raised them up. he touched the lepers and the unclean. I hope this makes sense but I see His love in suffering without the gate …but now notice “to provoke them within” of His own flesh unto jealously. Where Paul said let us go without the gate to bear His reproach. I am not over thinking it but putting it into perspective because last night going to sleep… I asked Him why He would use those without the gate to provoke them within to Jealousy? It leaves me with feeling like those without are not His affection but used of Him to provoke His affection…that wife gone aside, or turned away to idols. Why use Gentiles to provoke the Jews to Jealousy? Are the gentiles a toy to provoke the Jews? I’m not bashing God because I get this is my way of seeing it, but I also see there is something I’m not getting about His provoking unto Jealously of those of His own flesh. Again, I get I am wrong in assuming God uses people because that is what mankind does, using others to get what they want. I do not think that is who He is.

So your post helped me in this also. Going to sleep once again last night wondering “God who are you? Do I know you? Why take a people to provoke them unto Jealousy?” You reminded me that what I don’t understand doesn’t make Him like us.

 

[Behold]

We aren't reborn because we did something right, and we don't become unreborn because we did something wrong.

Yes.
God came to the Cross to take our wrong and give us His Right as a Gift.

"the Gift of Righteousness".
"the Gift of Salvation"

Episkopos and those like him cant understand that "the Gift of Righteousness" is not given to help us try to be righteous..., instead its literally given to cause us to be "made righteous" = as "the righteousness of GOD, in Christ".
And its the self righteousness in them that abhors this, because they can't get any credit for it.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hoping this doesn’t ruin the moment by more questions. I’m left now with another question. In the Old Testament passage about a wife that turns aside to another…it begins right before this with the LORD telling them to take the lepers and any man and woman that be not clean without the gate. To me this is where Jesus Christ suffered without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood. It also speaks of any that touch a dead body be put without. New Testament Jesus touched the dead and raised them up. he touched the lepers and the unclean. I hope this makes sense but I see His love in suffering without the gate …but now notice “to provoke them within” of His own flesh unto jealously. Where Paul said let us go without the gate to bear His reproach. I am not over thinking it but putting it into perspective because last night going to sleep… I asked Him why He would use those without the gate to provoke them within to Jealousy? It leaves me with feeling like those without are not His affection but used of Him to provoke His affection…that wife gone aside, or turned away to idols. Why use Gentiles to provoke the Jews to Jealousy? Are the gentiles a toy to provoke the Jews? I’m not bashing God because I get this is my way of seeing it, but I also see there is something I’m not getting about His provoking unto Jealously of those of His own flesh. Again, I get I am wrong in assuming God uses people because that is what mankind does, using others to get what they want. I do not think that is who He is.

So your post helped me in this also. Going to sleep once again last night wondering “God who are you? Do I know you? Why take a people to provoke them unto Jealousy?” You reminded me that what I don’t understand doesn’t make Him like us.

? Hebrews 10:24 comes to mind ‘And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:’

Jesus Christ suffered without the gate in bearing the reproach of many through the cleansing of a people by His own blood …to provoke unto love and to good works? That the woman be free (by the body of Jesus) and conceive children. It is God’s will that you bear fruit.

 

[Lizbeth]

To me this is where Jesus Christ suffered without the gate to prepare a people in His own blood. It also speaks of any that touch a dead body be put without. New Testament Jesus touched the dead and raised them up. he touched the lepers and the unclean.

What I understand is that He suffered without the gate because of becoming sin (unclean) for us in an intercessory way. He was put out, cast out, and crucified, for us. Where the Law speaks of not touching lepers and the unclean, it is allegorical for us to "touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you, says the Lord", ie, especially do not eat meats sacrificed to idols = not eating of the doctrines of pagans = can't eat the table of the Lord and the table of demons = can't serve two masters. ( Under the Law, if what is clean touches what is unclean, what was clean becomes unclean, but not the other way around.)

When Jesus came He was instituting and showing that which the Law had only been allegorical for, ie, showing the new covenant......which is a new paradigm, no longer of the letter but of the Spirit and no longer the curse of death, but life. No longer just the shadow and type of the heavenly, but the heavenly itself. Also when He came He was DEMONSTRATING forgiveness of sins by healing the sick and diseased and delivering from evil spirits.....this spoke to forgiveness because the diseases and demonic oppression had come upon Israel because of breaking the Law (sin)...which God had previously warned them would happen if they broke His laws. So Jesus went around touching lepers and sinners in order to heal them. And this bothered the religious who put their religion above compassion and mercy, and instead of rejoicing that lepers and others were getting healed would rather accuse Jesus of breaking the Law.

Why use Gentiles to provoke the Jews to Jealousy? Are the gentiles a toy to provoke the Jews?

Provoke the Jews to jealousy is a way of saying to make them wonder and want what they are seeing we have, which is a good thing. :) But also sadly to those who are hardened of heart it will cause them to persecute. Scripture says that Jesus was persecuted and crucified because the religious leaders were envious. The Lord has a way of exposing hearts, exposing what likes to hide in darkness. The bible says He made a public spectacle of the devil when He was crucified. Exposure is light which defeats and overcomes darkness, ie, has the upper hand over it.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don’t think he believes in the universal church, but I could be wrong.

No , i believe there is ONE true CHURCH of GOD . But it sure aint found under the lie of the RCC .
There is ONLY ONE CHURCH . and that CHURCH dont and wont buy the lies of men gone wrong .
ITS scattered all around the globe . And boy is it the most hated of all peoples .
The true church dont buy the lies of men who either twist scrips or try and make it seem
as though the older versions of the english bible are simply incorrect in places .
Lambs dont buy agendas of wicked men . Who try and make it seem like its time for us to sit under
their greek scholars who have twisted simple truth into a lie gone totally wrong .
I dont need men to tell me i have to understand greek
when i cleary see their greek is pointing me away from the simple truth of what is and has already been written in the bible .
This aint new either . many have done this . The JW founder did it
many within the protestant realm have done it and are doing it
and the RCC , man forget it , its led folks wrong for a long long time .
I can read english . I can easily understand man is not to lie with man .
I dont need some greek wise scholar to try and say GOD was never against homosexuality
but rather what that greek word meant was not to sell your male children out as prosititues . WHAT A CROCK of crap that lie is .
And it aint the only lie getting sold either . Progressivism is truly of the devil
deconstruction is of the devil , the prosperity gospel is of the devil . WE BETTER go back as small children
and simply read the BOOK so many men of all denominations have tried to tell us cannot be understood .
CAUSE THEY LIE . THEY LIE and boy howdy do they lie . GOD giveth understanding to what HE INSPIRED .
These men LIE LIE LIE to us all the day long .

 

[Lizbeth]

? Hebrews 10:24 comes to mind ‘And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:’

Jesus Christ suffered without the gate in bearing the reproach of many through the cleansing of a people by His own blood …to provoke unto love and to good works? That the woman be free (by the body of Jesus) and conceive children. It is God’s will that you bear fruit.

Yes, though I believe that is talking about two different things. Provoking unto jealousy is not the same thing as provoking unto love and good works...just two different messages there. The word provoke just means to prod and goad, and can be used to talk about prodding and goading unto many different things.

Yes, the women that passed the testing were freed to return to their husbands and conceive children. I think since this testing was the Lord's command in those days under the Law (which was holy and righteous) we can be reassured that He wouldn't have allowed an innocent woman to have been found guilty. But we must not be too afraid to behold both the goodness and the severity of God....fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, it is for our spiritual good.

I know how it can be hard to behold the severity of the Lord if we have suffered too much 'severity', abuse or harshness at the hands of authority figures in our early years....this is why it says to "let the lame (wounded) be healed lest they be turned out of the way".....emotional wounding suffered in childhood can make it hard to accept certain aspects of the nature of God. We need to have our emotions healed and sanctified enough to be able to bear heaven's perspective on things, rather than seeing through our emotions.

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen. Buried with Him in baptism. And we get tested and tried with bitter waters. The Lord is a jealous God. It's so wonderful how the gospel is seen and preached again and again in the Law! Thanks for sharing that.

Cause the law itself DOES POINT TO CHRIST . Torah and the prophets POINT and POINTED TO CHRIST .
ITS ALL IN VAIN o man if one believeth not in CHRIST . IF one rejects the CHRIST OF GOD
prepare to weep and wail on HIS DAY . And , AND JESUS also is no ministir of sin .
SO if we follow a jesus that supports or embraces SIN , WE FOLLOW THE DRAGON , NOT CHRIST and thus NOT GOD .

 

[BreadOfLife]

View attachment 31906

Just as I thought -
You constantly accuse the Catholic Church of "contradicting" Scripture - yet, when I as you for examples - you CHOKE miserably.

Good job . . .

 

[amigo de christo]

A man of any religoin may say I have FAITH IN GOD
but i say THEN WHY IS YOUR FAITH and TRUST NOT IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND .
IF One has not FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST , i tell us all they have NO FAITH IN GOD .
GOD bore recored OF HIS SON . Not of budda , not of hinduism , not of atheism
not of whateverism . OF HIS SON .
IF we DENY the TESTIMONY OF GOD , WE DENY GOD .
IF we love not CHRIST we love NOT GOD WHO SENT HIM .
ITS TIME TO preach the original true gospel again . And not what many have tried to sell as a gospel . MEN cannot save
BUT JESUS CAN . PREACH HIM FOLKS , preach HIS teachings , preach all sound biblical doctrine WHICH GOD INSPIRED
and beware of the doctrines , the leaven of men .

 

[Lizbeth]

No , i believe there is ONE true CHURCH of GOD . But it sure aint found under the lie of the RCC .
There is ONLY ONE CHURCH . and that CHURCH dont and wont buy the lies of men gone wrong .
ITS scattered all around the globe . And boy is it the most hated of all peoples .
The true church dont buy the lies of men who either twist scrips or try and make it seem
as though the older versions of the english bible are simply incorrect in places .
Lambs dont buy agendas of wicked men . Who try and make it seem like its time for us to sit under
their greek scholars who have twisted simple truth into a lie gone totally wrong .
I dont need men to tell me i have to understand greek
when i cleary see their greek is pointing me away from the simple truth of what is and has already been written in the bible .
This aint new either . many have done this . The JW founder did it
many within the protestant realm have done it and are doing it
and the RCC , man forget it , its led folks wrong for a long long time .
I can read english . I can easily understand man is not to lie with man .
I dont need some greek wise scholar to try and say GOD was never against homosexuality
but rather what that greek word meant was not to sell your male children out as prosititues . WHAT A CROCK of crap that lie is .
And it aint the only lie getting sold either . Progressivism is truly of the devil
deconstruction is of the devil , the prosperity gospel is of the devil . WE BETTER go back as small children
and simply read the BOOK so many men of all denominations have tried to tell us cannot be understood .
CAUSE THEY LIE . THEY LIE and boy howdy do they lie . GOD giveth understanding to what HE INSPIRED .
These men LIE LIE LIE to us all the day long .

Amen brother!

And if they are twisting scripture, it wouldn't bother them one bit to twist the Greek as well. I'm sure an actual true and accurate understanding of the original languages of the bible would not lead astray from the truth. I would stake my life on it!

 

[amigo de christo]

Just as I thought -
You constantly accuse the Catholic Church of "contradicting" Scripture - yet, when I as you for examples - you CHOKE miserably.

Good job . . .

Myself and others have brought you many things which prove this . You just always wont heed it .
I aint gonna continously waste my time on folks who i KNOW keep refusing to hear the truth .
I aint GOD , you aint GOD , the protestant leaders aint GOD , the govts aint GOD .
ONLY HE can give the increase . If your heart has been hardend , who i am that can uharden it .
ITS ON you . No matter how many have tried to help you , you resist it all the time .
I cant wave a wand and change your mind . Anymore than anyone could have done it to me .
YOU need to sit down for yourself and pray TO GOD for the dire help you NEED .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen brother!

And if they are twisting scripture, it wouldn't bother them one bit to twist the Greek as well. I'm sure an actual true and accurate understanding of the original languages of the bible would not lead astray from the truth. I would stake my life on it!

Like wycliff and others knew . THEY interpeted greek and hebrew . Exactly sister . IF the greek dont line up
with the simple truth , REST ASSURED it is because an agenda is going on . an agenda that cometh NOT OF GOD either
but rather of the dragon and of men who desire the occasion . Have you ever sat and pondered on the simplicity
of this truth . Rather odd that the scholars of late try and teach us
that the men who copied out the truth in said scriptures of english , seemed to fall short .
YET , heed this , ALL OF A SUDDEN near the end of it all , WE HAVE SAVOIRS WHO HAVE FINALLY ARRIVED
to save christainty from the errors of the original bibles . As though somehow GOD
was unable to get a right bible into english , TILL FINALLY NOW . WHAT A JOKE . what a laugh it would be
if it were not so serious . For hundreds and hundreds of years
those poor english speaking people had no true accurate bible , BUT ALAS , NOW THEY FINALLY GOT MEN WHO
can lead us into what the greek really meant and means . YOU DO realize what this really is .
ITS NOTHING MORE than the time has come WHEN THEY , THEY NO LONGER ENDURE sound doctrine
and have heaped to themselves ever so wise sounding greek scholars who teach nothing but fairy tales and fables .
THE NERVE of these wise greek scholars . THEY may as well say MOVE OVER GOD
you couldnt get a right bible into english , LET US DO IT . what a PRIDE FILLED HEART these wicked beings of belial have .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The true church is made up of those who are born of His Spirit and thus are reconciled to, joined to, and personally know and experience the Lord by that Spirit. "If any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of His."

The true Church is a VISIBLE (Matt. 5:14) and UNIYED (John 17:20-21) entity - NOT a conglomeration of people invisibly-weaved together from different sects.

Matt. 5:14-15
“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.

John 17:20-21
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, THAT ALL OF THEM MAY BE ONE, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.