How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Johann]

Well said-with a faith not of our own-so that NO one may boast.

Don't give up hope on my communication skills @Lizbeth-I'm catching up-love your Lev/heart and thank you for the encouragement.


Act 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures.
Act 18:25 He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
Act 18:26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Had been instructed in the way of the Lord (ēn katēchēmenos tēn hodon tou kuriou). Periphrastic past perfect passive of katēcheō, rare in the old Greek and not in the lxx from kata and ēcheō (ēchō, sound) as in Luk_1:4,

to re-sound, to re-echo, to teach by repeated dinning into the ears as the Arabs do now, to teach orally by word of mouth (and ear). Here the accusative of the thing (the word) is retained in the passive like with didaskō, to teach (Robertson, Grammar, p. 485).

Being fervent in spirit (zeōn tōi pneumati). Boiling (from zeō, to boil, old and common verb, in N.T. only here and Rom_12:11) like boiling water or yeast. The Latin verb ferveo means to boil or ferment. Locative case after it.

Taught carefully (edidasken akribōs). Imperfect active, was teaching or inchoative, began teaching, accurately. He taught accurately what he knew, a fine gift for any preacher.

Only the baptism of John (monon to baptisma Iōanou). It was a baptism of repentance (marked by repentance) as Paul said (Act_13:24; Act_19:4), as Peter said (Act_2:38) and as the Gospels tell (Mar_1:4, etc.). That is to say, Apollos knew only what the Baptist knew when he died, but John had preached the coming of the Messiah, had baptized him, had identified him as the Son of God, had proclaimed the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but had not seen the Cross, the Resurrection of Jesus, nor the great Day of Pentecost.
Robertson

--and maybe, God willing, you can teach me more fully/accurately re the derech/way and how to formulate my ideas into words?

Shalom
Johann

 

[ChristisGod]

We received the spirit of adoption when we first came to faith in Him (with a faith not of our own that no one may boast - that faith was a free gift). His Spirit that we received at that point IS that spirit (of adoption).

Where are you quoting “ a faith not of your own “ from ?

What verse ?

 

[Johann]

Where are you quoting “ a faith not of your own “ from ?

What verse ?

Where are you quoting “ a faith not of your own “ from ?

faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

διὰ πίστεως, cf. Eph_1:13; Eph_1:15; Eph_1:19; faith on man’s side is the mouth or hand by which the salvation is appropriated, cf. Rom_3:24.

"And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the "special gift of faith", and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind.'' (Wisdom 3:14)
----- (I asked the following question from a Greek and Hebrew professor:
"In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation".''
His reply was:
"Here you ask a wonderful theological/exegetical question to which I can only give an opinion, and not a definitive answer. The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely.

However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe--from Gill,--

- notice I stopped right here. Your thoughts?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with your thoughts, basically. However, those of us who have accepted Christ as our Savior are not on death row. Our lives have been redeemed!?

That is called being saved

 

[ChristisGod]

faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

διὰ πίστεως, cf. Eph_1:13; Eph_1:15; Eph_1:19; faith on man’s side is the mouth or hand by which the salvation is appropriated, cf. Rom_3:24.

"And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the "special gift of faith", and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind.'' (Wisdom 3:14)
----- (I asked the following question from a Greek and Hebrew professor:
"In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation".''
His reply was:
"Here you ask a wonderful theological/exegetical question to which I can only give an opinion, and not a definitive answer. The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely.

However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe--from Gill,--

- notice I stopped right here. Your thoughts?

Salvation is the gift which is consistent with all the other passages in the NT. And Eph 2:8 cannot contradict Jesus teaching in numerous places where He taught “ your faith has saved you” not the faith He gave them saved them.

 

[Episkopos]

Salvation is the gift which is consistent with all the other passages in the NT. And Eph 2:8 cannot contradict Jesus teaching in numerous places where He taught “ your faith has saved you” not the faith He gave them saved them.

But notice how the word saved here so often means to be preserved/healed...a temporal life healing...and not an eternal status. it's a mistake to take a deliverance from a temporal affliction to mean an eternal state.

Jesus often says...go and sin no more lest a worse thing happen to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

At what point can you be considered adopted in to Faith of Christ?

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

They have recieved him in faith

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But notice how the word saved here so often means to be preserved/healed...a temporal life healing...and not an eternal status. it's a mistake to take a deliverance from a temporal affliction to mean an eternal state.

Jesus often says...go and sin no more lest a worse thing happen to you.

the word saved actually means to be rescued.

If your not rescued your not saved..

 

[Episkopos]

the word saved actually means to be rescued.

If your not rescued your not saved..

And don't forget that all the people in the wilderness that looked up to the brass serpent and were saved in their affliction also perished in the wilderness. Judge nothing before the time.

If people could only understand that we are in a race of faith...a wilderness walk...and most are failing completely to enter into the rest of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And don't forget that all the people in the wilderness that looked up to the brass serpent and were saved in their affliction also perished in the wilderness. Judge nothing before the time.

everyone will die physically.

if your still dead spiritually, You will have no hope

Its your spirit that is dead and needs rescued

If people could only understand that we are in a race of faith...a wilderness walk...and most are failing completely to enter into the rest of God.

If we think we can earn the gift of life. We do not understand what the gift is.. You want to try to work for it. Feel free. You will fail. As has every person who ever tried to get to God through religion

 

[VictoryinJesus]

John 1: 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

They have recieved him in faith

love …now if you did receive it, why do you glory as if you had not received it? A blunt question (Imo). Why don’t you act like you received it? …glorying as if did something to receive it that makes you differ from others.
1 Corinthians 4:7-15 For who makes you to differ from another ? and what have you that you did not receive? now if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it ? [8] Now you are full, now you are rich, you have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God you did reign, that we also might reign with you. [9] For I think that God has set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. [10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are honourable, but we are despised. [11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; [12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. [14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. [15] For though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have you not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[Episkopos]

everyone will die physically.

if your still dead spiritually, You will have no hope

Its your spirit that is dead and needs rescued



If we think we can earn the gift of life. We do not understand what the gift is.. You want to try to work for it. Feel free. You will fail. As has every person who ever tried to get to God through religion

Why do you hate the counsel of Jesus so much? He says to ask, seek and knock. Are you afraid of seeking God? Why? Is that a work? Or do you not love God at all? Are you so selfish that you can't lift a finger to please God?

Heb. 4:1 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.”

Of course you will not fear... but remain smug in your artificial self-assurance. I hope no one follows your example...an example of those who perish in the wilderness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

love …now if you did receive it, why do you glory as if you had not received it? A blunt question (Imo). Why don’t you act like you received it? …glorying as if did something to receive it that makes you differ from others.
1 Corinthians 4:7-15 For who makes you to differ from another ? and what have you that you did not receive? now if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it ? [8] Now you are full, now you are rich, you have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God you did reign, that we also might reign with you. [9] For I think that God has set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. [10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are honourable, but we are despised. [11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; [12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: [13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. [14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. [15] For though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have you not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

if you sis not really recieved it due to lack of faith or true repentance. Your still dead in your sin.. and lost having not been adopted/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why do you hate the counsel of Jesus so much?

I love the council of Jesus. Your not Jesus.. why do you think you are?

He says to ask, seek and knock. Are you afraid of seeking God? Why? Is that a work? Or do you not love God at all? Are you so selfish that you can't lift a finger to please God?

You’re right he did. And I seeked and knocked 40 years ago. When will you knock?

Heb. 4:1 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.”

Of course you will not fear... but remain smug in your artificial self-assurance. I hope no one follows your example...an example of those who perish in the wilderness.

Yep.. Come short. How do we come short By failing to repent and come to true saving faith.

either because we have a licentious gospel. or we have a legalistic Gospel. Both refusing to repent and come to saving faith

 

[Johann]

Salvation is the gift which is consistent with all the other passages in the NT. And Eph 2:8 cannot contradict Jesus teaching in numerous places where He taught “ your faith has saved you” not the faith He gave them saved them.

You can have faith in your Doctor to heal--is that eternally saving faith?
In the gospel accounts many followed Jesus for His miracles, for the loaves and the fish --did they have eternally saving faith?

Faith. . We are saved by grace, not by faith, which is the channel through (dia) which flows to us the Divine stream of saving grace. Both alike God's gifts.

For by grace, the free favour of God, as Eph_2:5, are ye, even ye Ephesians, Gentiles, who had not such promises made to you as the Jews had, Eph_2:12,
saved, from first to last, from your calling, Eph_2:5, to your glorification, Eph_2:6.

Objection. How are believers said to be saved, when they are not yet glorified?

Answer.
1. Because Christ their Head is glorified.
2. Because their salvation, begun in their effectual calling, shall be as certainly accomplished in them as it is begun in them, and perfected in their Head, Christ.
Through faith; by which ye lay hold on the grace offered you in the gospel. Faith is not considered here as a work done by us, but as an instrument or means applying the grace and salvation tendered to us.

And that not of yourselves; not for your own worth, nor by your own strength.
It is the gift of God; that ye are saved is the gift of God, and therefore free and purely by grace.
God is opposed to self: gift relates not merely to faith immediately preceding, but to the whole sentence.

Just looking for truth, nothing more, nothing less-not being argumentative, but this makes sense to me, it is ALL of God, the Divine Initiator-causing a dead Lazarus to come forth--no room for boasting.

I don't know if @Lizbeth will agree, but at the end of the day, I need to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling, I am going to stand before the bar of Christ, alone, to give an account of myself.

I see many allo doctrines here, no fruit, in the interactions between members, just mud slinging, most of the time.

Like I've said, looking for truth, with an UN-biased mindset.
Shalom
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God

 

[Johann]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God

Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Rom 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


The gospel is given, not only to be known and believed, but to be obeyed. It is not a system of notions, but a rule of practice. The beginning, progress, and strength of faith is by hearing. But it is only hearing the word, as the word of God that will strengthen faith.

 

[ChristisGod]

You can have faith in your Doctor to heal--is that eternally saving faith?
In the gospel accounts many followed Jesus for His miracles, for the loaves and the fish --did they have eternally saving faith?

Faith. . We are saved by grace, not by faith, which is the channel through (dia) which flows to us the Divine stream of saving grace. Both alike God's gifts.

For by grace, the free favour of God, as Eph_2:5, are ye, even ye Ephesians, Gentiles, who had not such promises made to you as the Jews had, Eph_2:12,
saved, from first to last, from your calling, Eph_2:5, to your glorification, Eph_2:6.

Objection. How are believers said to be saved, when they are not yet glorified?

Answer.
1. Because Christ their Head is glorified.
2. Because their salvation, begun in their effectual calling, shall be as certainly accomplished in them as it is begun in them, and perfected in their Head, Christ.
Through faith; by which ye lay hold on the grace offered you in the gospel. Faith is not considered here as a work done by us, but as an instrument or means applying the grace and salvation tendered to us.

And that not of yourselves; not for your own worth, nor by your own strength.
It is the gift of God; that ye are saved is the gift of God, and therefore free and purely by grace.
God is opposed to self: gift relates not merely to faith immediately preceding, but to the whole sentence.

Just looking for truth, nothing more, nothing less-not being argumentative, but this makes sense to me, it is ALL of God, the Divine Initiator-causing a dead Lazarus to come forth--no room for boasting.

I don't know if @Lizbeth will agree, but at the end of the day, I need to work out my own salvation with fear and trembling, I am going to stand before the bar of Christ, alone, to give an account of myself.

I see many allo doctrines here, no fruit, in the interactions between members, just mud slinging, most of the time.

Like I've said, looking for truth, with an UN-biased mindset.
Shalom
J.

Since you love word studies its the same word being used by Jesus in the gospels and Paul in Ephesians 2.

Salvation
NT:4990

NT:4990 ‎/‎soter (so-tare'); from NT:4982; a deliverer, i.e. God or Christ:

KJV - saviour.

NT:4991 / ‎soteria (so-tay-ree'-ah); feminine of a derivative of NT:4990 as (properly, abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally):

KJV - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

NT:4982

NT:4982 ‎ ‎sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively):

KJV - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

Luke 19:5-10
5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.

6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.

8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, for so much as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

To save- it means to deliver out of danger

Salvation- refers to the activity which produces the state of safety

Savior- is reserved for the one who saves.

We sometimes talk about saving things but Jesus only used the word in with man whom He saved.

Luke 19:9- This is the only time Jesus used the word salvation and that was with Zacchaeus. Christ’s purpose was one of seeking and saving the lost. Zacchaeus was a rich tax collector who was looked down upon for his livelihood. He was despised by those around him. When Jesus approached him and Zacchaeus looked up at Him , Jesus asked him to use his house and Zacchaeus gladly came down and received Him. When they went into the house the multitude murmured and within a short visit Zacchaeus was repentant of his ill gains which was evidence of his new found faith in the Savior. Salvation is the power that takes hold of a person and remakes him.

Here are some verses that Jesus used the word save. He used it on 13 different occasions.


Luke 6:9- Jesus restored the withered hand
Luke 8:48- Jesus healed the woman with the issue of blood
Luke 8:50- Jesus raised Jairus daughter from the dead
Luke 17:19- Jesus cleansed the lepers
Luke 18:42- Jesus healed the blind

So as we can see to save means to completely remove or destroy those destructive forces. To restore all that had been lost. Salvation in the teaching of Jesus is the complete change from one condition to its opposite. Jesus confronted man with the reality of sin. The religious people of his day hated Him without a cause because they loved their sin. Jesus taught us to “repent toward God”(Matt 4:17) To believe in Me (John 6:28,29)

 

[ChristisGod]

Here is how some would rewrite Jesus words below and add to scripture things that were never said nor implied in Parenthesis is the false assertion below

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

 

[ChristisGod]

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.


Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

conclusion: as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.

1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life


hope this helps !!!