How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Episkopos]

Love doesn’t tear Him down.
Stop trying to persuade me that He does not already love me. Stop trying to persuade me over and over there is something I lack Him. Stop trying to kill and destroy what little faith there is by building yourselves up as having it together. Building yourselves up as the faith and trust ..that I lack but could have if I would just listen to you guys. Back off.

Amen. This is very important to consider. The outer man has no idea of the damage he causes to true faith.

But it would be better to have a millstone tied around one's neck and be thrown into the sea than to discourage one inner man.

Be strong in Him, sister. Jesus took so much more on Himself than we can ever imagine...so that our hearts would explode. But He only gives us according to our capacity.

 

[Johann]

I see epi as encouraging the inner child and not the religious outer falsehood that wants to destroy a child. Can I be wrong? Absolutely. but it sure appears that way to me in light of the opposition that opposes it, in return opposing its own body.

Stay strong
Shalom to you and family
Johann.

 

[ChristisGod]

Amen. This is very important to consider. The outer man has no idea of the damage he causes to true faith.

But it would be better to have a millstone tied around one's neck and be thrown into the sea than to discourage one inner man.

Be strong in Him, sister. Jesus took so much more on Himself than we can ever imagine...so that our hearts would explode. But He only givers us according to our capacity.

That’s unbiblical - Jesus said causing one of these little ones to stumble ( children ) in Matthew 18:

He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.​

 

[Keturah]

Jehovah Witnesses are a non Christian cult.

What are the top ten cults in the U.S.? - ChristianAnswers.Net

Author: Bob Pardon, Director of NEIRR.

christiananswers.net

Interesting article.
Interesting also that LDS is first with JW's coming in second.
Great is the deception but  ONLY to those not following God & are willing to be DECEIVED!

 

[Johann]

God gives the new birth after we believe and not prior . We believe and receive Christ ( John 1:12) and God gives us the new birth / born again by His Spirit ( John 1:13).

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What about the two scripture references no one can come to the Son unless drawn by the Father?

Is every person that "received" Christ a Christian?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What I want you to know is that He loves and accepts you, the small child keep hidden out of fear it won’t be accepted. No hoops to jump through. No status to achieve. It not being how much success, money or titles you hold. What languages you know or what theology you’ve learned. None of that matters because what the world loves about you which can always fail.. He loves that child within and is after him.


I see epi as encouraging the inner child and not the religious outer falsehood that wants to destroy a child. Can I be wrong? Absolutely. but it sure appears that way to me in light of the opposition that opposes it, in return opposing its own body.

Epi seeks to puff up self. He denies the cross he denies the inner man must be made alive

We are not against epi. We are against his word

But if people will not see what he teaches. The. There is really no hope

My example of the man on death row stands. He is dead with no hope. If a savior
Comes he does not save him by making him so h does not sin again. Because he is still on death row

If people want to remain on death row. I guess there is nothing we can do

For those who finally realize that is where they are. We can give them the hope
In Jesus. Who saved them by removing them from death row because he paid their debt on the cross

That’s not religion. What epi teaches is religion a false hope. Which does not save

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen. This is very important to consider. The outer man has no idea of the damage he causes to true faith.

But it would be better to have a millstone tied around one's neck and be thrown into the sea than to discourage one inner man.

Be strong in Him, sister. Jesus took so much more on Himself than we can ever imagine...so that our hearts would explode. But He only givers us according to our capacity.

Again if the inner man remains dead the outer man has supreme power it has not yet been crucified

You telling her the be strong is wrong. She needs to become week. Poor is spirit if she wants to enter the kingdom

 

[CadyandZoe]

Just one question brother--do you hold to Reformed doctrines-Total Depravity?

I won't be offended if your answer is in the affirmative-but I have showed you-clearly and irrevocably, that eternal life is a present reality for the saints-Perfect Tense.

I don't know if I believe in Total Depravity. I don't think that is a meaningful concept for me. But I would like to hear your opinion on the following observation.

Sometimes the Bible speaks about eternal life in terms of duration.

ζωὴν αἰώνιον: Life eternal

At other times the Bible speaks about eternal life in terms of quality and uniqueness.
τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων: to the age of ages

For instance, speaking of heaven, Jesus indicates that heaven is a place "where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal" Paul speaks about that age when we shall be raised up to an indestructible life.

Thus, the age of ages will see an entirely different sort of life, a quality of life not seen in this lifetime. I have coined a word, based on the New Testament usage of the Greek word "aion", that is ionic life. Ionic Life is the quality of life in the coming age. When I hear the phrase "eternal life" my mind immediate jumps to the duration of that life. But we should not discount, undervalue or forget about the quality of life that will be found in that age of ages.

Life in that age will be superior in every way: superior in achievement, morally excellent, unsurpassed in quality, goodness and righteousness, filled with love, mercy, support, encouragement and everything that of that sort. Rather than relationships breaking down, rather than divorce or warfare, we will see deeper and more meaningful relationships develop and last a long time, growing increasingly life producing.

So then, although we "have" eternal life as an inheritance, to the degree that we experience Ionic Life now, to that degree we only have a foretaste of what is to come.

Agree?

 

[Johann]

I don't know if I believe in Total Depravity. I don't think that is a meaningful concept for me. But I would like to hear your opinion on the following observation.

Sometimes the Bible speaks about eternal life in terms of duration.

ζωὴν αἰώνιον: Life eternal

At other times the Bible speaks about eternal life in terms of quality and uniqueness.
τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων: to the age of ages

For instance, speaking of heaven, Jesus indicates that heaven is a place "where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal" Paul speaks about that age when we shall be raised up to an indestructible life.

Thus, the age of ages will see an entirely different sort of life, a quality of life not seen in this lifetime. I have coined a word, based on the New Testament usage of the Greek word "aion", that is ionic life. Ionic Life is the quality of life in the coming age. When I hear the phrase "eternal life" my mind immediate jumps to the duration of that life. But we should not discount, undervalue or forget about the quality of life that will be found in that age of ages.

Life in that age will be superior in every way: superior in achievement, morally excellent, unsurpassed in quality, goodness and righteousness, filled with love, mercy, support, encouragement and everything that of that sort. Rather than relationships breaking down, rather than divorce or warfare, we will see deeper and more meaningful relationships develop and last a long time, growing increasingly life producing.

So then, although we "have" eternal life as an inheritance, to the degree that we experience Ionic Life now, to that degree we only have a foretaste of what is to come.

Agree?

No, --
eternal life = life age-abiding. Greek. zue aionios. App-170. This was to be gained by "doing" in that Dispensation and since the Fall. Compare Lev_18:6. Now all is "done", and "eternal life is the gift of God" (Rom_6:23. 1Jn_5:11, 1Jn_5:12).



151. "EVERLASTING", "ETERNAL",
"FOR EVER", ETC.


I. In the Old Testament there are several words and expressions thus translated, the principal of which is

A. Olam . This word is derived from 'alam (to hide), and means the hidden time or age, like aion (see below II. A), by which the word, or its Adjective aionios , it is generally rendered in the Sept. In Ezra 4 and Dan. 2-7, the Chaldee form 'alam is used. There are 448 passages where the word occurs.

i. It is doubled, "from 'olam to 'olam " in 11 places, and is translated :--
1. "for ever and ever" in 1Ch_16:36; 1Ch_29:10.
2. "from everlasting to everlasting" in Psa_41:13; Psa_90:2; Psa_103:17; Psa_106:48.

ii. It is used in the plural 11 times, and translated :--
1. "for ever" in 1Ki_8:13. 2Ch_6:2. Psa_61:4; Psa_77:7.
2. "everlasting" in Psa_145:13 (see marg.). Isa_26:4. (see marg.); Isa_45:17. Dan_9:24.
3. "of ancient times or old times" in Psa_77:5. Ecc_1:10.
4. "of old" in Isa_51:9.

iii. It is rendered "for ever" in Gen_3:22; Gen_13:15.
iv. In conjunction with 'ad (see below, B) it is rendered :--
1. "for ever and ever" in Exo_15:18. Psa_9:5; Psa_10:16; Psa_21:4; Psa_45:6; Psa_45:17; Psa_48:14; Psa_52:8;
2. "for ever" in Psa_104:5.
3. "world without end" in Isa_45:-17. (*1)

v. With a negative it is rendered "never" in Jdg_2:1. 2Sa_12:10.
vi. Rendered "everlasting" in Gen_9:16; Gen_17:7-8; Gen_17:13;
vii. Rendered "perpetual" in Gen_9:12. Exo_29:9;
viii. Rendered "for evermore" in 2Sa_22:51. Amo_9:11. Mic_7:14. Mal_3:4.
x. Rendered "old" or "ancient" in Ezr_4:15; Ezr_4:19. Job_22:15. Pro_22:28; Pro_23:10. Isa_44:7; Isa_58:12; Isa_61:4. Jer_5:15; Jer_6:16; Jer_18:15. Eze_25:15; Eze_36:2.
xi. Rendered "of" or "In old time" in Jos_24:2. Jer_2:20. Eze_26:20.
xii. Rendered "alway" or "always" in Gen_6:3. 1Ch_16:15. Job_7:16. Psa_119:112. Jer_20:17.
xiii. Rendered "ever" in Psa_5:11; Psa_111:5; Psa_119:98. Joe_2:2
xiv. Rendered "any more" in Eze_27:36; Eze_28:19; "long" in Psa_143:3. Ecc_12:5; "world" in Psa_73:12. Ecc_3:11; "continuance" in Isa_64:5; "eternal" in Isa_60:15; "lasting" in Deu_33:15; "long time" in Isa_42:14; "at any time" in Lev_25:32; and "since the beginning of the world" in Isa_64:4.


B. 'ad from the verb 'adah (to pass on), as a Noun is used of time past or future. It is also a Preposition or Conjunction, meaning "until" (see Oxford Gesenius , pp. 723, 4). The noun occurs 49 times, 19 of which occurrences are given above (A. iv). The remaining 30 are rendered :

i. "for ever" in Num_24:20; Num_24:24. 1Ch_28:9.
ii. "everlasting" in Isa_9:6. Hab_3:6.
iii. "eternity" in Isa_57:15; "evermore" in Psa_132:12; "of old" in Job_20:4; and "perpetually" in Amo_1:11.



Other words are: -
C. Nezach , which means "excellence" or "completeness", and is the word used in the subscription of 55 Psalms for "chief" in "chief Musician". It is rendered :--

i. "for ever" in 2Sa_2:26. Job_4:20; Job_14:20; Job_20:7; Job_23:7; Job_36:7. Psa_13:1; Psa_44:23; Psa_49:9;
ii. "never" (with a negative) in Psa_10:11; Psa_49:19. Isa_13:20. Amo_8:7. Hab_1:4.
iii. alway(s) in Psa_9:18; Psa_103:9. Isa_57:16.
iv. "perpetual" in Psa_9:6; Psa_74:3. Jer_15:18.
v. "ever" in Isa_28:28; Isa_33:20; "strength" in 1Sa_15:29. Lam_3:18; "the end" in Job_34:36. Jer_3:5; "victory" in 1Ch_29:11. Isa_25:8. "evermore" in Psa_16:11; "constantly" in Pro_21:28 and "for ever and ever" in Isa_34:10. In this last passage it is doubled, lenezach nezahim = completeness of completenesses.


D. Kedem , from the verb kadam , to precede or prevent (2Sa_22:6, &c.), means that which is before, of time or place; hence often translated the east (Gen_3:24, &c.). It is always used of the past, and is rendered "ever" in Pro_8:23; "eternal" in Deu_33:27; "everlasting" in Hab_1:12; "old" or "ancient" in Deu_33:15. 2Ki_19:25.
E. Zmithuth , from zamath (to cut), means "for cutting off". It occurs only in Lev_25:23 (see marg.), Lev_25:30, and is rendered "for ever".
F. Tamid = always, is rendered :--
"ever" in Lev_6:13. Psa_25:15; Psa_51:3; "evermore" in Psa_105:4, and (with a negative) "never" in Isa_62:6.
G. Dor = generation, is translated (with a negative) "never" in Psa_10:6, and "for evermore" in Psa_77:8, where the margin in both cases gives "to generation to generation".
H. Yom = day, occurs nearly 2,500 times. The expression orek yamin , "length of days", is translated "for ever" in Psa_23:6; Psa_93:5. In both cases the margin gives "to length of days". Kal yamin , or kal hayyamin , "all days" or "all the days" is translated "for ever" in Gen_43:9; Gen_44:32. Deu_4:40; Deu_18:5. Jos_4:24. 1Sa_2:32; 1Sa_2:35; 1Sa_28:2.



II. In the N.T. the words rendered "for ever", &c., are the Noun aion , the Adjectives aionios , aidios , akatalutos , and aperantos ; the Adverbs aei and pantote , and the adverbial phrase eis to dienekes .

A. Aion , which means "age" (Ap. 129. 2), is found 128 times in 105 passages, in 23 of which it is doubled (see below, ii. 6, 9, 10). It occurs in its simple form 37 times, and with Prepositions 68 times.

i. In its simple form it is rendered :--
1. "age". Eph_2:7 (pl). Col_1:26 (pl).
2. "course". Eph_2:2.
3. "world". Mat_12:32; Mat_13:22; Mat_13:39-40; Mat_13:49; Mat_24:3; Mat_28:20. Mar_4:19; Mar_10:30. Luk_16:8; Luk_18:30; Luk_20:34-35.
4. "eternal". Eph_3:11. 1Ti_1:17 (lit. "of the ages").


ii. In prepositional phrases :--
1. ap'aionos [from (Ap. 104. iv) an (the) age], rendered "since the world began" in Luk_1:70. Act_3:21; and "from the beginning of the world" in Act_15:18.
2. apo ton aionon [from (Ap. 104. iv) the ages], rendered "from the beginning of the world" in Eph_3:9.
3. ek tou ainos [out of (Ap. 104. vii) the age], rendered "since the world began" in Joh_9:32.
4. eis ton ainona [to (Ap. 104. vi) the age], rendered :--
a. "for ever" in Mat_21:19. Mar_11:14. Luk_1:55. Joh_6:51; Joh_6:58; Joh_8:35; Joh_12:34; Joh_14:16. 2Co_9:9. Heb_5:6; Heb_6:20; Heb_7:17; Heb_7:21. 1Pe_1:23; 1Pe_1:25. 2Pe_2:17 (no Art.). 1Jn_2:17. 2Jn_1:2. Jud_1:13.
b. "never" (with a negative) in Mar_3:29. Joh_4:14; Joh_8:51-52; Joh_10:28; Joh_11:26; Joh_13:8.
c. "ever" in Heb_7:24.
d. "for evermore" in Heb_7:28.
e. "while the world standeth" in 1Co_8:13.

5. eis hemeran aionos [to (Ap. 104. vi) day of an age], rendered "for ever" in 2Pe_3:18.
6. eis ton aiona tou aionos [to (Ap. 104. vi) the age of an age], rendered "for ever and ever" in Heb_1:8.
7. eis tous aionas [to (Ap. 104. vi) the ages], rendered :--
a. "for ever" in Mat_6:13. Luk_1:33. Rom_1:25; Rom_9:5; Rom_11:36; Rom_16:27. Heb_13:8.
b. "for evermore" in 2Co_11:31.

8. eis pantas tous aionas [to all the ages], rendered "ever" in Jud_1:25.
9. eis tous aionas ton aionon [to (Ap. 104. vi) to the ages of the ages], rendered :--

a. "for ever and ever" in Gal_1:5. Php_4:29. 1Ti_1:17. 2Ti_4:18. Heb_13:21. 1Pe_4:11; 1Pe_5:11. Rev_1:6; Rev_4:9-10; Rev_5:13-14; Rev_7:12; Rev_10:6; Rev_11:15; Rev_14:11 (no Arts); Rev_15:7; Rev_19:3; Rev_20:10; Rev_22:5.
b. "for evermore" in Rev_1:18.

10. eis pasas tas geneas tou aionos ton aionon all the generations of the age of ages], rendered "throughout all ages, world without end" in Eph_3:21.

B.

C. Aionios , of or belonging to an age, occurs 71 times, and is rendered :--
i. "eternal" in Mat_19:16; Mat_25:46. Mar_3:29; Mar_10:17; Mar_10:30.
ii. "everlasting" in Mat_18:8; Mat_19:29; Mat_25:41; Mat_25:46. Luk_16:9; Luk_18:30. Joh_3:16; Joh_3:36;

 

[ChristisGod]

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What about the two scripture references no one can come to the Son unless drawn by the Father?

Is every person that "received" Christ a Christian?

Whoever believes on the Lord Shall be saved . The gospel is for everyone who believes. God draws all to Himself. Jesus said when the Son of man is lifted up the Father will draw all men. It’s man’s responsibility to believe after God draws them. Whosoever will let him come drink freely of the water of life. John 3:16-18 make this crystal clear. The gospel is for everyone , all the world not just some.

 

[Johann]

The above from Bullinger @CadyandZoe and I am sorry, Brother--
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

και απελευσονται ουτοι εις κολασιν αιωνιον οι δε δικαιοι εις ζωην αιωνιον


aionion. App-151. In the same sense as in Heb_5:9 (Isa_45:17); Mat_6:2; Mat_9:12. 2Th_1:9. (Compare Psa_52:5; Psa_92:7.) The eternal result must be the same as in the next clause.

punishment. Greek. kolasis. According to Aristotle kolasis has regard to him who suffers it, while timoria has regard to the satisfaction of him who inflicts it. (Occurs only in Heb_10:29. The verb timoreo only in Act_22:5, and Act_26:11.) Kolasis occ only here, and 1Jn_4:18 (the verb kolazomai only in Act_4:21; 2Pe_2:9). What this kolasis is must be learnt from Mat_25:41. Compare Mat_3:12, and note on Luk_3:17.

This is "redefining" Scriptures--Ionic age--that "eternal does not REALLY means eternal when you have in one verse the 2 destinations [everlasting]

 

[CadyandZoe]

Is that what John is saying?

Not being flippant or facetious, but we need to be careful of redefining almost everything that stands written-with "I think-" John is saying-
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
1Jn 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
1Jn 5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him

. These things I wrote to you who have emunah b'Shem HaBen HaElohim, that you vada (with certainty) may have da'as that you have Chayyei Olam. [Yn 20:31]

ταυτα εγραψα υμιν τοις πιστευουσιν εις το ονομα του υιου του θεου ινα ειδητε οτι ζωην εχετε αιωνιον και ινα πιστευητε εις το ονομα του υιου του θεου

1Jn 5:13
These thingsG3778 DPro-ANP Tauta Ταῦτα have I writtenG1125 G5656 V-AIA-1S egrapsa ἔγραψα to youG4771 PPro-D2P hymin ὑμῖν so thatG2443 Conj hina ἵνα you may knowG1492 G5762 V-RSA-2P eidēte εἰδῆτε thatG3754 Conj hoti ὅτι lifeG2222 N-AFS zōēn ζωὴν N1 you haveG2192 G5719 V-PIA-2P echete ἔχετε eternal,

This portion says the opposite to what "you think John is saying" @CadyandZoe but I'm not here to be argumentative.

Later
J.

But isn't certainty assured in God's faithfulness? John says we "have" eternal life, which is a certainty even while it remains a hope, which rests on God's faithfulness.

In other words, the sentence "I have eternal life" is just as certain and just as true whether it has been actualized or whether it stands as a hope for the future, because God never fails to keep his promise.

Right?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Again if the inner man remains dead the outer man has supreme power it has not yet been crucified

You telling her the be wrong. She needs to become week. Poor is spirit if she wants to enter the kingdom

I don’t know how much poorer I need to be to be allowed entrance, by those who claim there is no cost it is free?

 

[CadyandZoe]

God gives the new birth after we believe and not prior . We believe and receive Christ ( John 1:12) and God gives us the new birth / born again by His Spirit ( John 1:13). And faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ ( Roman’s 10:17) born again by the gospel the word of God ( 1 Peter 1:22-25).

hope this helps !!!

I would say that our belief itself is a signal that God granted us new birth.

With regard to the Romans passage, I think Paul actually meant to say, "faith must accompany the hearing."

 

[ChristisGod]

But isn't certainty assured in God's faithfulness? John says we "have" eternal life, which is a certainty even while it remains a hope, which rests on God's faithfulness.

In other words, the sentence "I have eternal life" is just as certain and just as true whether it has been actualized or whether it stands as a hope for the future, because God never fails to keep his promise.

Right?

If one is born again they have eternal life when they believed , in the present even though we may doubt it from time to Tim and it’s also a future promise to be fulfilled in the Resurrection of the saints

 

[ChristisGod]

I would say that our belief itself is a signal that God granted us new birth.

With regard to the Romans passage, I think Paul actually meant to say, "faith must accompany the hearing."

So you are placing the new birth prior to belief in the gospel ?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t know how much poorer I need to be to be allowed entrance, by those who claim there is no cost it is free?

You need to be so Poor you call out to God as the tax collector. And receive his grace gift if eternal Life based not on what you do or will do. But based on what he did on the cross
Jesus came to save you from Gods wrath from eternal Death. Then he will help you walk as Jesus did

He does not help you walk like Jesus so you can be saved he saves you so you can walk like jeaus

 

[amigo de christo]

how were you "saved" ?

are you " saved" ?

what evidence is there you are "saved" ?

why were you "saved" ?

what were your beliefs when you were first " saved " ?

who "saved" you ? Buddha, Confucius, Mohammad, Allah , Krishna, Tammuz, Prometheus, Zoroaster, Baal

hope this helps !!!

THey all false , they nor self can save one . Epi is blind my friend .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You need to be so Poor you call out to God as the tax collector. And receive his grace gift if eternal Life based not on what you do or will do. But based on what he did on the cross
Jesus came to save you from Gods wrath from eternal Death. Then he will help you walk as Jesus did

He does not help you walk like Jesus so you can be saved he saves you so you can walk like jeaus

How do you know I haven’t? When I remember even the blood pumping in my ears, hearing my own blood pressure rising from the sadness of things I’ve done, that have caused destruction to others. But see you keep saying I still need converting …to what? What do I lack in Christ and need to be converted into? Why keep telling me I lack something? Instead of encouraging what I’ve shared with you, your repeated you are not yet adopted of God (you don’t think)but can be? I have shared with you openly my frustration that I get nothing I post in reply will be enough. The answer remains the same.

 

[Lizbeth]

I don’t know how much poorer I need to be to be allowed entrance, by those who claim there is no cost it is free?

Sister it is certainly free in the beginning...the bible explicitly SAYS so....a FREE gift. A newborn didn't have to pay any price to be born. But then we begin to count the cost of following Him. We start to grow as children grow and eventually grow up....we begin learning lessons and experiencing the Father's discipline etc, realizing and facing reality that "life" in this world isn't a bed of roses like it was when we were just infants...realizing that there is a cost involved in being His when He begins the testing and proving of our faith. If we didn't receive faith in the beginning there would be nothing to test and prove would there.