Understanding The Second Resurrection

[veteran]

A 'second' resurrection is inferred within the Revelation 20 chapter. It is almost universally misunderstood. The reason is because many have not covered the Old Testament prophets about the wicked for the time after Christ's second coming and His future Millennium reign.


Rev 20:1-6
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

At this point in time, Christ Jesus has returned and gathered His Church, and Satan is locked in his pit prison for a thousand years (millennium) period. Christ Jesus is reigning with His elect at this point. Who's He reigning over though?

He gave us a big clue as to 'who', in that Rev.20:3 verse. When Satan is locked up, we're told he cannot deceive the 'nations' any more "till"... what? That "till" (until) is a condition. The condition is once the thousand years are fulfilled. Then he will be released one more time in final to go deceive those... 'nations' (per Rev.20:8).

That reveals after Christ's second coming and gathering of His Church, there will STILL... be "nations" manifested upon this earth. Nations will still exist, all the way through... His thousand years reign with His elect.

Now put your thinking cap on for a minute. If Satan is going to be loosed again at the end of that thousand years to go deceive the "nations" again, do you think those "nations" involve His Church, His saints that reign with Him? No, they don't. Yet, there they are, existing throughout the thousand years, and also at the end of the thousand years when Satan is loosed in final.

Further down Revelation 20:9 is going to show you just where... those "nations" will be on earth in relation to Christ's saints that rule with Him.

The next few verses cover the subject of the "first resurrection" involving Christ's saints that reign with Him during that thousand years. OK, thinking cap on again. Keep in mind this matter about the "nations" in existence vs. Christ's saints when reading the next verses...


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
(KJV)

Who will be of the "first resurrection"? Christ's saints that reign with Him, those who overcame the beast, his image, and his mark.

What about those "nations" covered above that exist during... Christ's reign, will they be part of the "first resurrection" saints? Do they also reign with Jesus? NO!

So what description in all that does... represent those "nations" our Lord showed us above? THOSE "nations" are the "dead" of Rev.20:5! But how in the world could those "nations" be the "dead" if they exist throughout that "thousand years" reign by Christ and His saints?

Many get confused right here simply because they fail to consider just what TYPE of death still remains after Christ's second coming and the resurrection of life at His return.

Further down in Revelation 20:14 we are show that the "second death" is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. That "second death" is the death of one's spirit with soul. It is not... about flesh death. This is why those of the "first resurrection" cannot ever experience the "second death", simply because they are of the "resurrection of life", Eternal Life through Christ Jesus.

But those "nations" are still subject to that "second death", aren't they? YES! That's why... the "nations" will STILL... be subject to deception by Satan when he is loosed in final at the end of the thousand years. Christ's saints cannot be subject to that final tempting by Satan, which should... reveal a lot to you about the spiritual state those "nations" are still in. What spiritual state would that be?

They are Spiritually Dead. That's the KIND of "dead" they are still, not having put on Christ Jesus and The Spirit. Their spirits and souls are still... without Christ. That's how they can still be subject to temptation by Satan at the end.

Now note what happens to those "nations" at the end of the thousand years when Satan is loosed out of his pit prison...


Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(KJV)

There those "nations" still are, having gone through Christ's thousand years under reign by Him and His elect priests and kings, and then at the end Satan is loosed one final time to deceive those same "nations".

We know those "nations" are not about Christ's saints, for His saints cannot be deceived, nor lose their status as the "first resurrection". As a matter of fact, did notice just where... those saints of the "first resurrection" are when Satan tempts those "nations"? The saints are on EARTH, and they are in a "camp" associated with the "beloved city". What is that "beloved city"? It's Jerusalem on earth, for that's where Christ and His elect will rule from during that thousand years.

Towards the end of Zechariah 14 there's more about that time involving those "nations" during Christ's future thousand years reign. We're told that even the nations left remaining that came up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world will be required to go up to Jerusalem to worship The King, The LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles; from year to year during that thousand years period. Those of the "nations" that refuse... to do that, there will be no rain upon their lands. The nation of Egypt is then mentioned as an example of that, revealing how the "nations" are still... going to exist upon this earth all the way through... Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect priests and kings.

In Rev.22:14-15, our Lord Jesus revealed the existence of the 'tree of life' and holy city on earth during that time. And also outside... the gates of the holy city, is where the wicked... will dwell. That's where the "outer darkness" will be that our Lord Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 8:12; 22:13; and 25:30. That's the "nations" dwelling outside the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" of that time.

In Ezekiel 44, a future thousand years chapter like this one of Revelation 20, descriptions are given about the Zadok (the righteous, or just) and the existence of a Sanctuary at Jerusalem. Zadok is the Hebrew name for Christ's elect priests that reign with Jesus during that time. Their job (our job in Christ Jesus then) will be to teach 'the people' (nations) the difference between the holy and the profane, between the clean and the unclean. The people will stand in judgment (under judgment during the 1,000 years). And for the sake of a lost family member, called the "dead" there, the Zadok will be able to cross over (go into that "outer darkness" outside the holy city) for their sake, and must go through a time of purification before coming back into the Millennium Sanctuary to serve The LORD.

In John 5:28-29, our Lord Jesus said the hour is coming when all in the graves shall hear His voice and come forth, they will be either of the "resurrection of life", or of the "resurrection of damnation". Which ones do you think the "nations" represent? That's right, they will be of the "resurrection of damnation" and STILL... subject to the "second death". A real important point to remember about them is they are.. going to be resurrected at Christ's second coming also, and not at the end of the thousand years. Otherwise, the "nations" wouldn't be present during Christ's thousand years reign, now would they? So this is really not that difficult to understand if we keep to the Scriptures as written.

The difficult part is understanding that the Revelation 20:5 verse about the "dead" is not about the "nations" being still in the graves not knowing anything. That's man's supposition and tradition, and it has confused many about that Rev.20:5 verse.


The Second Resurrection:

At the end of Revelation 20:9 when Satan leads that host of the "nations" to go up against the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" on earth, God rains fire down upon them from Heaven. That's our Heavenly Father Who will do that. That event begs a question. Will ALL... the "nations" fall to Satan's final leading in that and be destroyed by that fire from God? NO!

We have to keep reading in Revelation 20 to find that out...


Rev 20:10-15
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from Whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

OK, Satan does his final tempting of the "nations", and then he is cast into the "lake of fire". His job is done forever at that point.

This is probably the spiritually DEEPEST part to understand, and it REQUIRES an understanding from what God gave the Old Testament prophets to write down. Notice there are TWO separate groups of the "dead" judged in the above Rev.20:12-13 verses. The first group of "dead" (green) are about those left of the "nations" that did not fall to Satan's final tempting. The second group of "dead" (blue) are about these... in the pit (hell)...

Isa 24:20-23
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)

At Christ's second coming, He's going to punish that "host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth." At the start of Christ's thousand years reign, those are going to be cast into the 'pit' with Satan. And that's where they shall remain... all through Christ's thousand years reign. They will be "shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited." Those "many days" represent the "thousand years" Millennium period. At the end... of the thousand years, they will be visited, i.e., brought before The LORD to receive final Judgment, the Judgment of Rev.20:13.

Do we have another Bible witness about those servants of Satan cast into the pit prison with him at Christ's second coming? Yes. It's in Isaiah 14...

Isa 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"
(KJV)

Isa 14:7-10
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, "Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us."
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, "Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?"
(KJV)

The chief ones of the earth cast into the pit prison with Satan during Christ's thousand years reign will look at Satan and say, "Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?"

Thus the spiritually "dead" of the "nations" during Christ's thousand years reign will be outside the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" on earth, but... Satan and his host, even the chief ones of the earth that served him, will be locked in the pit with him during that thousand years, revealing truly the abode of the evil wicked called 'hell' actually is a holding place for the ultimate spiritually "dead" (i.e., truly wicked workers of iniquity and Satan).

Then the very last verse of Revelation 20:15 of God's final Judgment reveals what? Whoever's name NOT found in the Book of Life from those "dead" will be cast into the lake of fire with Satan, death, and the abode of hell.

You mean that leaves room for at least some of the "dead" to be saved in Christ Jesus??? YES!

That's what the Second Resurrection is. Because Rev.20 declares an ordinal "first resurrection", it means there is at the least... one more LIKE IT later. Notice I said another one LIKE the first. What KIND of resurrection was the first one by the way? It was a "resurrection of life" through Jesus Christ, meaning Eternal Life. There is no such idea of a second resurrection of the "dead".

When our Lord Jesus returns, ALL... will be either of the "resurrection of life", or of the "resurrection of damnation". All the "dead" will be of that "resurrection of damnation" at the start of Christ's thousand years. All of those of that "resurrection of damnation" will STILL... be subject to the "second death". If they do not... come to Christ Jesus during that thousand years, guess what 'resurrection' they remain as? That's right, they remain as the "resurrection of damnation". And what does "damnation" ultimately mean? It means going into the lake of fire, the "second death".

Thus some... of the "dead" are going to turn to Christ Jesus during that future time, and no more be of the "resurrection of damnation", and that's HOW the implied Second Resurrection is actually about a 'repeat' of the FIRST RESURRECTION UNTO ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.

That is what the Rev.20:5 verse actually means that the dead wil not live again... until... the end of the thousand years. For one of the "resurrection of damnation" to 'live again', it can ONLY mean being changed to become joined with the "resurrection of life" in Christ Jesus. It means they would have to come to Jesus Christ during the thousand years, and their name found written in the Book of Life at the final Judgment. So, it ain't over, until it's over.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

:wacko: FYI. Once a post goes over a few paragraphs, I stop reading.

Those whom the resurrected reign over are those on earth who have survived the wrath of God, i.e., the coming worldwide nuclear holocaust and concomitant events.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with this...it ain't over till it's over. The second rez is not just to condemnation but also to life...otherwise there would be no reason to open the book of life. :) It is only those whose names are NOT written in the book of life that are terminated. Just like those who have no ticket cannot get into the cinema...but this does not mean that the cinema will be empty.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
One expositor I listen to on a regular basis believes that the "first"
resurrection encompasses a period beginning with the rapture and ending
with the conclusion of the millennium. In other words: when an unrighteous
person dies during the millennium they will be transferred to hades to await
resurrection later on at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:10
15. In contrast; when a righteous person dies during the millennium, they
will in the self same moment be instantly revived in a new supernatural
body.

If perchance the unrighteous are brought up to stand trial at the Great White
Throne event one person at a time, then the "second" resurrection could
last a pretty long time; maybe even longer than the first.

Cliff
/

 

[veteran]

.
One expositor I listen to on a regular basis believes that the "first"
resurrection encompasses a period beginning with the rapture and ending
with the conclusion of the millennium. In other words: when an unrighteous
person dies during the millennium they will be transferred to hades to await
resurrection later on at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:10
15. In contrast; when a righteous person dies during the millennium, they
will in the self same moment be instantly revived in a new supernatural
body.

That of course goes completely against the John 5:28-29 Scripture that teaches at Christ's coming ALL... the dead are resurrected. And the OT prophets agree with the John 5 Scripture too (like Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah).

According to the OT prophets like Isaiah, and Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, all those alive on earth at Christ's return will be 'changed', at the "twinkling of an eye". But the dead and the "asleep" saints will both be resurrected at that same time. That's why Paul said in Acts 24:15 that he also had hope in a resurrection of the "unjust" (wicked) also. Paul was not a sadist; he wouldn't have said that to mean he hope the wicked would be resurrected just to perish, for that is not 'hope'. His hope was that at least some of the wicked might also be saved in Jesus Christ.

That's why the wicked still alive on earth at Christ's coming will be 'changed', along with Christ's saints still alive on earth, and why the wicked dead will be resurrected at Christ's coming, as also the saints that sleep in Jesus, and then we all... go through His Millennium reign, but with a separation like the goats and sheep of Matt.25.

 

[7angels]

A 'second' resurrection is inferred within the Revelation 20 chapter. It is almost universally misunderstood. The reason is because many have not covered the Old Testament prophets about the wicked for the time after Christ's second coming and His future Millennium reign.


Rev 20:1-6
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

At this point in time, Christ Jesus has returned and gathered His Church, and Satan is locked in his pit prison for a thousand years (millennium) period. Christ Jesus is reigning with His elect at this point. Who's He reigning over though?

He gave us a big clue as to 'who', in that Rev.20:3 verse. When Satan is locked up, we're told he cannot deceive the 'nations' any more "till"... what? That "till" (until) is a condition. The condition is once the thousand years are fulfilled. Then he will be released one more time in final to go deceive those... 'nations' (per Rev.20:8).

That reveals after Christ's second coming and gathering of His Church, there will STILL... be "nations" manifested upon this earth. Nations will still exist, all the way through... His thousand years reign with His elect.

Now put your thinking cap on for a minute. If Satan is going to be loosed again at the end of that thousand years to go deceive the "nations" again, do you think those "nations" involve His Church, His saints that reign with Him? No, they don't. Yet, there they are, existing throughout the thousand years, and also at the end of the thousand years when Satan is loosed in final.

Further down Revelation 20:9 is going to show you just where... those "nations" will be on earth in relation to Christ's saints that rule with Him.

The next few verses cover the subject of the "first resurrection" involving Christ's saints that reign with Him during that thousand years. OK, thinking cap on again. Keep in mind this matter about the "nations" in existence vs. Christ's saints when reading the next verses...


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
(KJV)

Who will be of the "first resurrection"? Christ's saints that reign with Him, those who overcame the beast, his image, and his mark.

What about those "nations" covered above that exist during... Christ's reign, will they be part of the "first resurrection" saints? Do they also reign with Jesus? NO!

So what description in all that does... represent those "nations" our Lord showed us above? THOSE "nations" are the "dead" of Rev.20:5! But how in the world could those "nations" be the "dead" if they exist throughout that "thousand years" reign by Christ and His saints?

Many get confused right here simply because they fail to consider just what TYPE of death still remains after Christ's second coming and the resurrection of life at His return.

Further down in Revelation 20:14 we are show that the "second death" is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. That "second death" is the death of one's spirit with soul. It is not... about flesh death. This is why those of the "first resurrection" cannot ever experience the "second death", simply because they are of the "resurrection of life", Eternal Life through Christ Jesus.

But those "nations" are still subject to that "second death", aren't they? YES! That's why... the "nations" will STILL... be subject to deception by Satan when he is loosed in final at the end of the thousand years. Christ's saints cannot be subject to that final tempting by Satan, which should... reveal a lot to you about the spiritual state those "nations" are still in. What spiritual state would that be?

They are Spiritually Dead. That's the KIND of "dead" they are still, not having put on Christ Jesus and The Spirit. Their spirits and souls are still... without Christ. That's how they can still be subject to temptation by Satan at the end.

Now note what happens to those "nations" at the end of the thousand years when Satan is loosed out of his pit prison...


Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
(KJV)

There those "nations" still are, having gone through Christ's thousand years under reign by Him and His elect priests and kings, and then at the end Satan is loosed one final time to deceive those same "nations".

We know those "nations" are not about Christ's saints, for His saints cannot be deceived, nor lose their status as the "first resurrection". As a matter of fact, did notice just where... those saints of the "first resurrection" are when Satan tempts those "nations"? The saints are on EARTH, and they are in a "camp" associated with the "beloved city". What is that "beloved city"? It's Jerusalem on earth, for that's where Christ and His elect will rule from during that thousand years.

Towards the end of Zechariah 14 there's more about that time involving those "nations" during Christ's future thousand years reign. We're told that even the nations left remaining that came up against Jerusalem on the last day of this world will be required to go up to Jerusalem to worship The King, The LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles; from year to year during that thousand years period. Those of the "nations" that refuse... to do that, there will be no rain upon their lands. The nation of Egypt is then mentioned as an example of that, revealing how the "nations" are still... going to exist upon this earth all the way through... Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect priests and kings.

In Rev.22:14-15, our Lord Jesus revealed the existence of the 'tree of life' and holy city on earth during that time. And also outside... the gates of the holy city, is where the wicked... will dwell. That's where the "outer darkness" will be that our Lord Jesus forewarned us of in Matthew 8:12; 22:13; and 25:30. That's the "nations" dwelling outside the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" of that time.

In Ezekiel 44, a future thousand years chapter like this one of Revelation 20, descriptions are given about the Zadok (the righteous, or just) and the existence of a Sanctuary at Jerusalem. Zadok is the Hebrew name for Christ's elect priests that reign with Jesus during that time. Their job (our job in Christ Jesus then) will be to teach 'the people' (nations) the difference between the holy and the profane, between the clean and the unclean. The people will stand in judgment (under judgment during the 1,000 years). And for the sake of a lost family member, called the "dead" there, the Zadok will be able to cross over (go into that "outer darkness" outside the holy city) for their sake, and must go through a time of purification before coming back into the Millennium Sanctuary to serve The LORD.

In John 5:28-29, our Lord Jesus said the hour is coming when all in the graves shall hear His voice and come forth, they will be either of the "resurrection of life", or of the "resurrection of damnation". Which ones do you think the "nations" represent? That's right, they will be of the "resurrection of damnation" and STILL... subject to the "second death". A real important point to remember about them is they are.. going to be resurrected at Christ's second coming also, and not at the end of the thousand years. Otherwise, the "nations" wouldn't be present during Christ's thousand years reign, now would they? So this is really not that difficult to understand if we keep to the Scriptures as written.

The difficult part is understanding that the Revelation 20:5 verse about the "dead" is not about the "nations" being still in the graves not knowing anything. That's man's supposition and tradition, and it has confused many about that Rev.20:5 verse.


The Second Resurrection:

At the end of Revelation 20:9 when Satan leads that host of the "nations" to go up against the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" on earth, God rains fire down upon them from Heaven. That's our Heavenly Father Who will do that. That event begs a question. Will ALL... the "nations" fall to Satan's final leading in that and be destroyed by that fire from God? NO!

We have to keep reading in Revelation 20 to find that out...


Rev 20:10-15
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from Whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
(KJV)

OK, Satan does his final tempting of the "nations", and then he is cast into the "lake of fire". His job is done forever at that point.

This is probably the spiritually DEEPEST part to understand, and it REQUIRES an understanding from what God gave the Old Testament prophets to write down. Notice there are TWO separate groups of the "dead" judged in the above Rev.20:12-13 verses. The first group of "dead" (green) are about those left of the "nations" that did not fall to Satan's final tempting. The second group of "dead" (blue) are about these... in the pit (hell)...

Isa 24:20-23
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before His ancients gloriously.
(KJV)

At Christ's second coming, He's going to punish that "host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth." At the start of Christ's thousand years reign, those are going to be cast into the 'pit' with Satan. And that's where they shall remain... all through Christ's thousand years reign. They will be "shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited." Those "many days" represent the "thousand years" Millennium period. At the end... of the thousand years, they will be visited, i.e., brought before The LORD to receive final Judgment, the Judgment of Rev.20:13.

Do we have another Bible witness about those servants of Satan cast into the pit prison with him at Christ's second coming? Yes. It's in Isaiah 14...

Isa 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"
(KJV)

Isa 14:7-10
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, "Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us."
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, "Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?"
(KJV)

The chief ones of the earth cast into the pit prison with Satan during Christ's thousand years reign will look at Satan and say, "Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?"

Thus the spiritually "dead" of the "nations" during Christ's thousand years reign will be outside the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" on earth, but... Satan and his host, even the chief ones of the earth that served him, will be locked in the pit with him during that thousand years, revealing truly the abode of the evil wicked called 'hell' actually is a holding place for the ultimate spiritually "dead" (i.e., truly wicked workers of iniquity and Satan).

Then the very last verse of Revelation 20:15 of God's final Judgment reveals what? Whoever's name NOT found in the Book of Life from those "dead" will be cast into the lake of fire with Satan, death, and the abode of hell.

You mean that leaves room for at least some of the "dead" to be saved in Christ Jesus??? YES!

That's what the Second Resurrection is. Because Rev.20 declares an ordinal "first resurrection", it means there is at the least... one more LIKE IT later. Notice I said another one LIKE the first. What KIND of resurrection was the first one by the way? It was a "resurrection of life" through Jesus Christ, meaning Eternal Life. There is no such idea of a second resurrection of the "dead".

When our Lord Jesus returns, ALL... will be either of the "resurrection of life", or of the "resurrection of damnation". All the "dead" will be of that "resurrection of damnation" at the start of Christ's thousand years. All of those of that "resurrection of damnation" will STILL... be subject to the "second death". If they do not... come to Christ Jesus during that thousand years, guess what 'resurrection' they remain as? That's right, they remain as the "resurrection of damnation". And what does "damnation" ultimately mean? It means going into the lake of fire, the "second death".

Thus some... of the "dead" are going to turn to Christ Jesus during that future time, and no more be of the "resurrection of damnation", and that's HOW the implied Second Resurrection is actually about a 'repeat' of the FIRST RESURRECTION UNTO ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH CHRIST JESUS.

That is what the Rev.20:5 verse actually means that the dead wil not live again... until... the end of the thousand years. For one of the "resurrection of damnation" to 'live again', it can ONLY mean being changed to become joined with the "resurrection of life" in Christ Jesus. It means they would have to come to Jesus Christ during the thousand years, and their name found written in the Book of Life at the final Judgment. So, it ain't over, until it's over.

veteran
so all who are saved will be with Christ during the millennium? you say it is Christ's saints that reign with Him, those who overcame the beast, his image, and his mark. so this is only for those that went through the great tribulation? or are there others that will be there? if there are others then where did they come from and who are they? where does it say in scripture that those nations living during the millennium are spiritually dead? matt 8:11-12, 22:2-14, 25:14-30 is a parable. all 3 refer to people that are saved and how God rejects those who are not hungry for him from any future rewards in heaven. where did you get your information about ez 44 meaning everything you say it does? how did you come up with dead green and dead blue? is 14 is referring to the king of babylon and is comparing satan as Lucifer. how can you see the meaning as referring to satan at the second coming? so are you saying the second resurrection takes place after the millennium?

 

[Webers_Home]

.

That of course goes completely against the John 5:28-29 Scripture that teaches at Christ's coming
ALL... the dead are resurrected.

I think it's just fascinating how two people can look at the same verse
translated in the same language and yet understand it's grammar and
syntax making entirely different statements.

†. John 5:25-29 . . I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come,
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will
live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have
life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the
Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are
in their graves will hear his voice and come out-- those who have done good
will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

I don't see Christ's coming mentioned anywhere in the Lord's statement.
And in point of fact, I see a resurrection mentioned in his statement that
takes place prior to Christ's coming; viz: "has now come". In other words: it
is 110% possible to undergo a resurrection right now, this very day, merely
by heeding the Lord's statements.

†. John 5:24 . . I tell you the truth; whoever hears my word, and believes
Him who sent me, has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has
crossed over from death to life.

Cliff
/

 

[veteran]

I think it's just fascinating how two people can look at the same verse
translated in the same language and yet understand it's grammar and
syntax making entirely different statements.

†. John 5:25-29 . . I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come,
when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will
live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have
life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the
Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are
in their graves will hear his voice and come out-- those who have done good
will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

I don't see Christ's coming mentioned anywhere in the Lord's statement.
And in point of fact, I see a resurrection mentioned in his statement that
takes place prior to Christ's coming; viz: "has now come". In other words: it
is 110% possible to undergo a resurrection right now, this very day, merely
by heeding the Lord's statements.

†. John 5:24 . . I tell you the truth; whoever hears my word, and believes
Him who sent me, has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has
crossed over from death to life.

Cliff
/

Go back up in John 5 a little farther and pick up the subject...

John 5:21-29
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father Which hath sent Him.

The subject? The 'raising up the dead' AND... judgment, which is committed by The Father to The Son (Jesus Christ). When is the 'resurrection' and the time of Christ's judgment when He will reign over all? The "thousand years" of Revelation 20, which is after... the end of this present world which still exists.

What happened at the time of Christ's death on the cross. A type of resurrection example happened...

Matt 27:50-53
50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(KJV)

Christ is covering that event here in John 5 also, specifically at the John 5:25 verse...


John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him That sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

The "and now is" is a time marker. It's about those who came out of their graves at the time of Christ's crucifixion. It's also the event of 1 Pet.3 when Jesus went and preached The Gospel to the "spirits in prison" after His Resurrection.

Notice the next reference to resurrection farther down (John 5:28-29) doesn't include that "and now is" time marker; it's because it's still yet future, for the time of His second coming.


26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;
27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

No time marker of "and now is" in that 2nd example, because once again, it's for the time of His second coming, which is still future to us.

 

[7angels]

the first resurrection is i believe the resurrection of the saints who overcome. the millennium is their reward for faithful service. the second resurrection i believe is for all the others who are saved but were not overcomers while here on earth.

some believe the first resurrection is going to be all the saints and the second resurrection will all those assigned to the lake of fire.

there are many beliefs and each of us should take the time to research the points of all sides and ask the Holy Spirit where the truth is.

 

[veteran]

the first resurrection is i believe the resurrection of the saints who overcome. the millennium is their reward for faithful service. the second resurrection i believe is for all the others who are saved but were not overcomers while here on earth.

some believe the first resurrection is going to be all the saints and the second resurrection will all those assigned to the lake of fire.

there are many beliefs and each of us should take the time to research the points of all sides and ask the Holy Spirit where the truth is.

That's pretty much the way I've covered the Rev.20 chapter. The "first resurrection" are the saints who overcome in Christ Jesus for this present world. The inferred second resurrection is another like the 1st at the end of the Christ's Millennium, their difference being they were blinded by God during this present world so they could not... overcome during this present world. Every man in his own order, like Paul said (1 Cor.15:23-28).

 

[7angels]

That's pretty much the way I've covered the Rev.20 chapter. The "first resurrection" are the saints who overcome in Christ Jesus for this present world. The inferred second resurrection is another like the 1st at the end of the Christ's Millennium, their difference being they were blinded by God during this present world so they could not... overcome during this present world. Every man in his own order, like Paul said (1 Cor.15:23-28).

God does not blind anyone so that they cannot overcome this present world. if God did then that would not be fair and God is a just God. it is by our own choice on whether or not we become overcomers and not God's decision. God has given us everything we need to be overcomers but it is us who ultimately decide.

 

[veteran]

veteran
so all who are saved will be with Christ during the millennium? you say it is Christ's saints that reign with Him, those who overcame the beast, his image, and his mark. so this is only for those that went through the great tribulation? or are there others that will be there? if there are others then where did they come from and who are they?

Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(KJV)

There's actually 3 groups in that: 1) OT saints = those persecuted "for the word of God"; 2) NT saints throughout NT Church history = those persecuted "for the witness of Jesus", and 3) NT saints at the end = those persecuted for Christ during the tribulation "which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands."

Those all represent Christ's elect of the "first resurrection" that will reign with Him for the "thousand years."

...where does it say in scripture that those nations living during the millennium are spiritually dead?

Are you asking is that phrase 'spiritual death' actually 'written' in LETTERS anywhere in God's Holy Writ?

No, it is not in the letter. But is the phrase 'first death' written in letters in God's Holy Writ? Nope, won't find that phrase written either; BUT... you will find the phrase "second death" written. Do you understand?

In other words, simply because the phrase "second death" is written, it automatically infers the existence of a 'first death' idea. So the first death IDEA is included in God's Word, even though it's not in actual letters in God's Word. Same thing with the spiritual death idea. How can we know that?

Simple, in John 3 what did our Lord Jesus say must happen for one to enter into His Kingdom? One MUST be born again of The Spirit. And per Matt.10:28 we know what part is saved; not our flesh, but our 'spirit' with soul.

So what does one call a person that is NOT... born again of The Spirit? Dead; truly dead.

But in what SENSE are those 'dead'??? Just their flesh bodies? No. It's their spirit and soul inside... which is what is truly... dead.


Matt 23:27
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
(KJV)

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
(KJV)

What's the idea our Lord Jesus was saying there? Those men's flesh bodies were still alive, still walking upon the earth. He compared the inner selves of those men to graves and tombs. What's inside our flesh bodies? Our spirit with soul. Thusly, the idea of SPIRITUAL death.

All the "resurrection of damnation" will be like 'spiritual' dead, their spirits with souls STILL dead because of NOT having been 'born again' by The Spirit, being without Christ Jesus. Since they are resurrected too when Jesus returns, we can no longer apply a flesh body death to them anymore (a first death). The Scripture says they are subject to the "second death", not a first death of the flesh body.

First Death = death of one's flesh body
Second Death = death of one's spirit with soul into the "lake of fire" (Rev.20:14-15)

matt 8:11-12, 22:2-14, 25:14-30 is a parable.

I don't know who told you that, but the "outer darkness" our Lord Jesus mentioned was NOT... a parable. Revelation 22:14-15 confirms it's not a parable, as does Ezekiel 44 also. Even the Rev.20:8-9 verses proves that separation between Christ's elect and those outside the camp of the saints will be very... REAL during Christ's thousand years reign!

...all 3 refer to people that are saved and how God rejects those who are not hungry for him from any future rewards in heaven.

You couldn't be more wrong on that.

where did you get your information about ez 44 meaning everything you say it does?

By simply reading the Ezekiel Scripture as written, and by understanding the timing of events per all of God's Word (that of course comes by The Holy Spirit as we stay in God's Word).

...how did you come up with dead green and dead blue? is 14 is referring to the king of babylon and is comparing satan as Lucifer. how can you see the meaning as referring to satan at the second coming? so are you saying the second resurrection takes place after the millennium?

If you've always been taught that all the OT prophets is dead history, then I can understand why you'd be wondering how what I covered from Isaiah 14 comes forth. It comes by firstly recognizing that not everything written in the OT prophets was history. That would appear to be your first required hurdle to overcome, which popular traditions of men teach against.

God does not blind anyone so that they cannot overcome this present world. if God did then that would not be fair and God is a just God. it is by our own choice on whether or not we become overcomers and not God's decision. God has given us everything we need to be overcomers but it is us who ultimately decide.

Wow, have you got a lot to learn about that blindness which God Himself has put upon some!

Rom 11:7-8
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
(KJV)


Granted it is partly because of their own rebellion against Him. But not all of it is.


Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
(KJV)

A most difficult part of the Romans 11 chapter about the blinded remnant of Israel which God Himself blinded, yet there it is. Paul reveals why God did it too, so that His Salvation could ALSO... go to the Gentiles.

 

[7angels]

Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(KJV)

the church prepared itself for the wedding feast in rev 19:7 and rev 20:4 is referring to those from the great trib.

There's actually 3 groups in that: 1) OT saints = those persecuted "for the word of God"; 2) NT saints throughout NT Church history = those persecuted "for the witness of Jesus", and 3) NT saints at the end = those persecuted for Christ during the tribulation "which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands."

Those all represent Christ's elect of the "first resurrection" that will reign with Him for the "thousand years."

i agree that these 3 groups are part of the first resurrection.

Are you asking is that phrase 'spiritual death' actually 'written' in LETTERS anywhere in God's Holy Writ?

No, it is not in the letter. But is the phrase 'first death' written in letters in God's Holy Writ? Nope, won't find that phrase written either; BUT... you will find the phrase "second death" written. Do you understand?

In other words, simply because the phrase "second death" is written, it automatically infers the existence of a 'first death' idea. So the first death IDEA is included in God's Word, even though it's not in actual letters in God's Word. Same thing with the spiritual death idea. How can we know that?

Simple, in John 3 what did our Lord Jesus say must happen for one to enter into His Kingdom? One MUST be born again of The Spirit. And per Matt.10:28 we know what part is saved; not our flesh, but our 'spirit' with soul.

So what does one call a person that is NOT... born again of The Spirit? Dead; truly dead.

But in what SENSE are those 'dead'??? Just their flesh bodies? No. It's their spirit and soul inside... which is what is truly... dead.


Matt 23:27
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
(KJV)

Luke 11:44
44 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over them are not aware of them.
(KJV)

What's the idea our Lord Jesus was saying there? Those men's flesh bodies were still alive, still walking upon the earth. He compared the inner selves of those men to graves and tombs. What's inside our flesh bodies? Our spirit with soul. Thusly, the idea of SPIRITUAL death.

All the "resurrection of damnation" will be like 'spiritual' dead, their spirits with souls STILL dead because of NOT having been 'born again' by The Spirit, being without Christ Jesus. Since they are resurrected too when Jesus returns, we can no longer apply a flesh body death to them anymore (a first death). The Scripture says they are subject to the "second death", not a first death of the flesh body.

here you are guessing that they will be spiritually dead. just because the pharisees were considered spiritually dead means nothing. all those who are not saved are spiritually dead. but to my knowledge there is no scripture that says the nations during the millennium will be spiritually dead. it could be similar to what we have now where sin is still in them and has not been completely obliterated yet with the exception of those who were in the first resurrection.

First Death = death of one's flesh body
Second Death = death of one's spirit with soul into the "lake of fire" (Rev.20:14-15)

I don't know who told you that, but the "outer darkness" our Lord Jesus mentioned was NOT... a parable. Revelation 22:14-15 confirms it's not a parable, as does Ezekiel 44 also. Even the Rev.20:8-9 verses proves that separation between Christ's elect and those outside the camp of the saints will be very... REAL during Christ's thousand years reign!

ok let us look at matt 8:11-12, 22:2-14, 25:14-30 then.

matt 8:11-12- v 11 shows us that Christ takes occasion from hence to make a comparison between Jews and Gentiles, and tells them two things, which could not but be very surprising to them who had been taught that salvation was of the Jews. [1.] That a great many of the Gentiles should be saved, The faith of the centurion was but a specimen of the conversion of the Gentiles, and a preface to their adoption into the church. v 12 tells us The children of the kingdom shall be cast out; the Jews that persist in unbelief, though they were by birth children of the kingdom, yet shall be cut off from being members of the visible church: the kingdom of God, of which they boasted that they were the children, shall be taken from them, and they shall become not a people, not obtaining mercy(rom 9:31 , 11:20). They shall be cast into outer darkness, the darkness of those that are without, of the Gentiles that were out of the church; into that the Jews were cast, and into worse; they were blinded, and hardened, and filled with terrors, as the apostle shows, rom 11:8-10).

matt 22:2-14- this would be too long to explain but here is the brief overview. the parable of the marriage-supper, concerning the rejection of the Jews, and the calling of the Gentiles (v. 1-10), and, by the doom of the guest that had not the wedding-garment, the danger of hypocrisy in the profession of Christianity (v. 11-14).

matt 25:14-30-this parable is describing the gifts God gives to each one of us. it tells us how we will be held accountable for what we do with those gifts.

You couldn't be more wrong on that.

By simply reading the Ezekiel Scripture as written, and by understanding the timing of events per all of God's Word (that of course comes by The Holy Spirit as we stay in God's Word).

i have already referred to this in a previous post and until you can explain each verse and how they apply then i count them irrelevant because to me they mean something different then what you claim.

If you've always been taught that all the OT prophets is dead history, then I can understand why you'd be wondering how what I covered from Isaiah 14 comes forth. It comes by firstly recognizing that not everything written in the OT prophets was history. That would appear to be your first required hurdle to overcome, which popular traditions of men teach against.

Wow, have you got a lot to learn about that blindness which God Himself has put upon some!

Rom 11:7-8
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
(KJV)


Granted it is partly because of their own rebellion against Him. But not all of it is.


Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.
(KJV)

A most difficult part of the Romans 11 chapter about the blinded remnant of Israel which God Himself blinded, yet there it is. Paul reveals why God did it too, so that His Salvation could ALSO... go to the Gentiles.

i told you before and i quote "God does not blind anyone so that they cannot overcome this present world. if God did then that would not be fair and God is a just God. it is by our own choice on whether or not we become overcomers and not God's decision. God has given us everything we need to be overcomers but it is us who ultimately decide." if you read the context of the 11th chapter you will see that God blinded them so that they will see and want what God has given to us and thus they will come back to the Lord. it was not to keep them from overcoming this world but to bring them grace and favor from God.

 

[veteran]

the church prepared itself for the wedding feast in rev 19:7 and rev 20:4 is referring to those from the great trib.

Those of Rev.20 of the "first resurrection" is about His elect who reign with Him for the "thousand years". It's about ALL... of His FAITHFUL Church, of both OT believers and NT believers. No specific 144,000 marker is given in the Rev.20:4 verse.

i agree that these 3 groups are part of the first resurrection.

They aren't 'deceived' Christians who fell away to worship the false messiah though. Our deceived brethren who will wrongly bow to the coming pseudo messiah, take his mark, will be placed in the "outer darkness" which Jesus preached. The five foolish virgins represent them.

here you are guessing that they will be spiritually dead. just because the pharisees were considered spiritually dead means nothing. all those who are not saved are spiritually dead. but to my knowledge there is no scripture that says the nations during the millennium will be spiritually dead. it could be similar to what we have now where sin is still in them and has not been completely obliterated yet with the exception of those who were in the first resurrection.

The spiritual status of the scribes and Pharisees is one of the SPECIFIC measures which Christ Jesus gave to mark the "synagogue of Satan", i.e., Satan's servants here on earth. They are considered 'dead' unless they are 'born again' of The Spirit through Christ Jesus. It's because they will STILL... be subject to DEATH, liable to die, in the lake of fire. That will apply to anyone NOT of the "first resurrection" in Christ Jesus.

ok let us look at matt 8:11-12, 22:2-14, 25:14-30 then.

matt 8:11-12- v 11 shows us that Christ takes occasion from hence to make a comparison between Jews and Gentiles, and tells them two things, which could not but be very surprising to them who had been taught that salvation was of the Jews. [1.] That a great many of the Gentiles should be saved, The faith of the centurion was but a specimen of the conversion of the Gentiles, and a preface to their adoption into the church. v 12 tells us The children of the kingdom shall be cast out; the Jews that persist in unbelief, though they were by birth children of the kingdom, yet shall be cut off from being members of the visible church: the kingdom of God, of which they boasted that they were the children, shall be taken from them, and they shall become not a people, not obtaining mercy(rom 9:31 , 11:20). They shall be cast into outer darkness, the darkness of those that are without, of the Gentiles that were out of the church; into that the Jews were cast, and into worse; they were blinded, and hardened, and filled with terrors, as the apostle shows, rom 11:8-10).

The verse is very simple, as is also... the timing it is meant for (Christ's Millennium)...

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Many coming from the east and west is about the gathering of Israel with His Church to Christ in Jerusalem. In that time those faithful saints shall sit down and sup with Jesus in His Kingdom (as He promised He would with His Apostles per The Gospel Books). That's an obvious joining of faithful Israel with His faithful Church right after His return.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(KJV)

But those of Israel that refused Christ will be cast out, to a literal place outside the holy city, outside its gates like the Rev.22:14-15 Scripture does declare. They will be cast out with the murderers, sorcerers, whoremongers, liars, etc.

matt 22:2-14- this would be too long to explain but here is the brief overview. the parable of the marriage-supper, concerning the rejection of the Jews, and the calling of the Gentiles (v. 1-10), and, by the doom of the guest that had not the wedding-garment, the danger of hypocrisy in the profession of Christianity (v. 11-14).

You got that 'danger' idea right, which is WHY those will be cast outside the gates of the beloved city, to the "outer darkness", after Christ's second coming. That's where the Rev.20 Scripture reveals where the "nations" will be, outside... the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city". That is going to be a REAL event, so the attempt to spiritualize it away like you've tried to do, won't work.

matt 25:14-30-this parable is describing the gifts God gives to each one of us. it tells us how we will be held accountable for what we do with those gifts.

That parable Jesus gave is about the UNPROFITABLE SERVANT. It's about those who only claim... to believe on Jesus Christ just for 'safety' sakes, just in case the end really does happen like The Bible and devout Christians declare by The Holy Spirit. It's the five foolish virgins of Matt.25 which willfully continue in 'iniquity' while trying to act like they're saved, like those on the 'Once saved, always saved' type doctrines which wrongly believe they need not do anything else other than 'believe'.

i have already referred to this in a previous post and until you can explain each verse and how they apply then i count them irrelevant because to me they mean something different then what you claim.

It's impossible to treat the Ezekiel chapters starting at Ezekiel 40 as if it's about this present world, or history, especially since it involves a detailed description of a sanctuary and oblation in Jerusalem that has never... per history been manifested, including the manifesting of the tree of life and God's River flowing out from that sanctuary in Jerusalem. So if you want to deny what those Ezek.40-48 chapters are about, that's up to you. God obviously made that for those of His servants who discipline theirselves in His Word, and not for those who won't.

i told you before and i quote "God does not blind anyone so that they cannot overcome this present world. if God did then that would not be fair and God is a just God. it is by our own choice on whether or not we become overcomers and not God's decision. God has given us everything we need to be overcomers but it is us who ultimately decide." if you read the context of the 11th chapter you will see that God blinded them so that they will see and want what God has given to us and thus they will come back to the Lord. it was not to keep them from overcoming this world but to bring them grace and favor from God.

Your quote about that is your own, and not from God in His Word, likewise as your reasoning on that is your own, and denies the Biblical FACT that God Himself put the "spirit of slumber" upon some...


Rom 11:7-10
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
(KJV)

Isa 29:9-13
9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath He covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men:
(KJV)