How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[ChristisGod]

You would be better off using a translation in modern English. That way you won't misinterpret Scripture.

Here are those same verses from the NIV: "So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!"

And from the NRSVue, "From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view, we no longer know him in that way. So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; look, new things have come into being!"

"Flesh" -- Greek "sárx" -- doesn't mean our body, but our unsaved state.

That’s ironic since you have all the modern English translations and think allah is YHWH and Muhammad is just as acceptable as Christ . I don’t think you are in any position to give another advice about understanding scripture and biblical truth.

And sarx has many many more nuances in meaning than you alluded to above.

1 Timothy 3:16 shows your understanding of sarx is wrong and has many other meanings depending on the context

This is for the readers on the forum .

sarx: flesh
Original Word: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sarx
Phonetic Spelling: (sarx)
Definition: flesh
Usage: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.
HELPS Word-studies
4561 sárksproperly, flesh ("carnal"), merely of human origin or empowerment.

[4561 /sárks ("flesh") is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed, flesh (what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in (Gal 2:20).]

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched(unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is nottransformed by God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To be accurate, Paul says "those who are of the law" [not "under" the law] referring to a supposed means to find justification with God. Those who are attempting to find justification through obedience are cursed because the task is impossible. This does not preclude, however, a Jewish person from seeking reconciliation (atonement) with God in the manner God prescribed. Seeking atonement is not the same thing as seeking justification.

Atonement came through the shedding of blood. On the day of atonement.

God is more than a perfect judge. That is not ALL he is.

Your right, he is also perfect love

But love can not over rule justice..

Well, I can think of several reasons why this can't be true. First, God declares that punishing a man for the sins of another man is evil. Punishing a man for crimes he didn't commit is immoral and unjust. This applies to the common man as well as to royalty and even to the God-man. God is not immoral.

Secondly, justice requires that the offended be compensated. How does it make sense for God to be both the plaintiff and the defendant? It makes no sense.

Finally, Jesus came to forgive sins. If sins are forgiven, they stand unpunished.

You can’t forgive sins unless they are atoned for.

Thats what the cross did..

No greater love has any man than he give his life for another.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Jewish God is not YOUR God perhaps. But just remember Luther didn't create the heavens and the earth.

What you are espousing sounds like the gnostic idea of the God of the OT being a "demiurge" ...or worse...

I knew you guys were way off here...but whoa nelly...

The God of the pharisee if jews, who crucified Christ is not the God of heaven.

they did not know the god of heaven, they made up their own God.

From the ounces of it, You do follow their God however. They did not think they needed saved either.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why are you changing the subject?

Muslims and Jews worship the same God as Christians. The entire Old Testament is about the worship of the one true God by the Jews. And Muslims also worship the one true God.

There is a vast difference between worshiping God and receiving Christ as Savior.

lol

They neither knew God. Nor did they honor him..

the God they worshiped was not the God of heaven.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To me “for he is condemned already” means enough punishment; in that without God and apart from God you can do nothing. As in he who believes not is already perishing. That to me is what He said about coming not to condemn but to save from “already condemned”.

I did the best I could to answer you entire question. But for some reason you’ll continue to assume I’m trying to take away the necessity of being born of the Spirit. Which I am not.

I do not comprehend this at all

God said that he who believes (the born again one) is not condemned

He who has not repented and come into a state of believe is already in a condemned state. This is the one who is not born again.who has not received the spirit. Who is still lost. Who is still dead in their sin. And who has not come to the kingdom of God

I am not saying your taking away the need, I think you just do not understand how it is done, and what it is

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Seems odd to me. Are you a Jew, and was once practiced the law given by Moses?

You just want to try to argue or something.

Your not understanding a word that is being said.

If you’re not willing to agt least try. Then why bother.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why are you changing the subject? (Actually I know why: because you are wrong about the God Muslims worship.)

Muslims and Jews worship God the Father. Period.

No they do not

why would you say Gods enemies worship him? That astounds me.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not saying your taking away the need, I think you just do not understand how it is done, and what it is

Then explain to me how it is done?
And please, Not by giving me a passage or verse you have already asserted I don’t understand? Explain to me how it is done …in your own words an explanation, so maybe I can see your perspective of what I’m misunderstanding?

 

[ChristisGod]

The God of the pharisee if jews, who crucified Christ is not the God of heaven.

they did not know the god of heaven, they made up their own God.

From the ounces of it, You do follow their God however. They did not think they needed saved either.

Jesus told the Pharisees their god was the devil

 

[ChristisGod]

No they do not

why would you say Gods enemies worship him? That astounds me.

Some cannot tell the difference between the True God from the false gods .

 

[Waiting on him]

That’s ironic since you have all the modern English translations and think allah is YHWH and Muhammad is just as acceptable as Christ . I don’t think you are in any position to give another advice about understanding scripture and biblical truth.

And sarx has many many more nuances in meaning than you alluded to above.

1 Timothy 3:16 shows your understanding of sarx is wrong and has many other meanings depending on the context

This is for the readers on the forum .

sarx: flesh
Original Word: σάρξ, σαρκός, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: sarx
Phonetic Spelling: (sarx)
Definition: flesh
Usage: flesh, body, human nature, materiality; kindred.
HELPS Word-studies
4561 sárksproperly, flesh ("carnal"), merely of human origin or empowerment.

[4561 /sárks ("flesh") is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed, flesh (what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in (Gal 2:20).]

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched(unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is nottransformed by God.

Yeah his flesh was founded in about 1500 years of carnal practices, but he got the circumcision that didn’t require hands.

 

[Waiting on him]

I’m surprised you guys are worshipping a man’s body. But not really

 

[amigo de christo]

Yikes more who cannot discern the true God from a false god, the real Christ from the false christs.

And epi gave your heretical beliefs above a thumbs up. Birds of a feather tge ecumenical movement as work all roads lead to heaven . No narrow or broad road as the Bible teaches .

Sound it out my friend . Now we see proof of what i have suspected for quite some time . Jim is in agreement with them .
He constantly hounds me , saying i dont love . But it aint me saying the muslims worship the Same GOD we do .
Jesus was so clear about this . He even told JEWS who didnt believe they were of their father the devil .
The muslims nor any other religoin worships GOD . If anyone truly loved and worshipped GOD
they would have loved and embraced the Son .
Truth is , JOHN says what an antichrist is . John says what the spirit of error is .
This other social all inclusive go spell , yeah its no gospel , is infiltrating lots of places now .
But as for the true lambs , WE GONNA POINT TO CHRIST alone and not A LIE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Exactly they cannot tell a false god and false prophet from the True God and His Prophets and Apostles.

This is what i have long been warning about . This LIE that will gather all religions under the dragon to merge as one .
Its been exploding too . By twenty eighteen they did a survey and found right at fifty percent of
mainstream christanity even believed God was fine with all religoins and that we serve the same God .
By twenty twenty one it had risen to right at seventy percent . ITS MOVING IN fast . THIS IS the delusion
the lie that will not save but will condemn . The gospel is under attack more and more now than ever .
The lambs shall continue in CHRIST and we wont be buying this lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?” (1 John 2:22)

Exactly . lets continue that verse . HE is ANTI CHRIST who denies the Father and the Son .
The SPIRIT of ANTI CHRIST has grown and infiltrated so many places now .
This big we are one all inclusive social gospel IS A LIE that wont HONOR CHRIST .
The mystery of inquity has grown massive now .

 

[ChristisGod]

This is what i have long been warning about . This LIE that will gather all religions under the dragon to merge as one .
Its been exploding too . By twenty eighteen they did a survey and found right at fifty percent of
mainstream christanity even believed God was fine with all religoins and that we serve the same God .
By twenty twenty one it had risen to right at seventy percent . ITS MOVING IN fast . THIS IS the delusion
the lie that will not save but will condemn . The gospel is under attack more and more now than ever .
The lambs shall continue in CHRIST and we wont be buying this lie .

Yes ecumenicalism is from the pit . Embrace all faiths , Kumbaya.

Flee from that harlot. All disguised under the religious and the pious who cannot discern the truth from a lie. The real Jesus from the false christs/ prophets , the True God from the false gods .

 

[amigo de christo]

Muslims do not worship (not "worshop") Allah; they worship God. It's sad that you don't understand that. He is the same "person" as the Judeo-Christian God.

Your comment comparing Allah to the "moon God" in paganistic teachings is so wrong it's laughable.

The muslims worship what they know not . Buddist , hindus , and any other religoin IS FALSE .
JESUS told even the very JEWS who did not believe on HIM , YE are of your father the devil .
BELIEVE ME HE will say the same to muslims and all others .
GOD dont draw us to other gods , other religoins , other faiths , HE draws one to THE SON .
IF ye loved GOD you would have Loved me . The muslims worship another jesus and follow
another god . Even paul knew there was such things as another jesus , another gospel , etc .
You dont seem to grasp that satan can USE the name of JESUS , but will present another jesus .
Just like satan can use many words and yet he brings a tainted version of said words .
I had a hunch you believed like this stuff about this stuff . Now i now you do .
You are in dire and grave danger .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes ecumenicalism is from the pit . Embrace all faiths , Kumbaya.

Flee from that harlot. All disguised under the religious and the pious who cannot discern the truth from a lie. The real Jesus from the false christs/ prophets , the True God from the false gods .

We warned of a great falling away . A time would come when folks would no longer endure sound doctrine .
That instead they would be given to their lusts and DENY even the LORD that brought them .
THIS is the lie my friend . IT has taken the dire necessity of believing in CHRIST out of the way .
THEY trod the sacrifice of CHRIST right under foot . DONT even believe you have to believe .
THIS sure aint what CHRIST , nor any of those apostels went about teaching .
This ecuminical all inclusive social go spell is a lie , its THE LIE . The lie that will merge all religoins
as one under what they THINK is GOD , only it aint GOD . ITS HE WHO ALWAYS desired to be worshipped as GOD .
We are truly witnessing what was foretold . Continue to contend for the one true faith that was once
delivered so long ago unto the saints . WE POINT TO CHRIST , and not this other lie which cannot save .

 

[Waiting on him]

You just want to try to argue or something.

Your not understanding a word that is being said.

If you’re not willing to agt least try. Then why bother.

I was never under the law given by Moses. I’d never even heard of such a thing till I was affiliated with the Baptist about 30 years ago.

 

[Johann]

John 21:5-7, "He called out to them, “Friends, haven’t you any fish?” “No,” they answered. He said, “Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish. Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord!” As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, “It is the Lord,” he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water."

2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
2Co 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
2Co 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

• 2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
  
  
  Henceforth (apo tou nun). From the time that we gained this view of Christ’s death for us.
  
  After the flesh (kata sarka). According to the flesh, the fleshy way of looking at men. He, of course, knows men “in the flesh (en tēi sarki), but Paul is not speaking of that.
  
  Worldly standards and distinctions of race, class, cut no figure now with Paul (Gal_3:28) as he looks at men from the standpoint of the Cross of Christ.
  Even though we have known Christ after the flesh (ei kai egnōkamen kata sarka Christon). Concessive clause (ei kai, if even or also) with perfect active indicative. Paul admits that he had once looked at Christ kata sarka, but now no longer does it. Obviously he uses kata sarka in precisely the same sense that he did in 2Co_5:15 about men. He had before his conversion known Christ kata sarka, according to the standards of the men of his time, the Sanhedrin and other Jewish leaders. He had led the persecution against Jesus till Jesus challenged and stopped him (Act_9:4). That event turned Paul clean round and he no longer knows Christ in the old way kata sarka. Paul may or may not have seen Jesus in the flesh before his death, but he says absolutely nothing on that point here.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Him who knew no sin (ton mē gnonta hamartian). Definite claim by Paul that Jesus did not commit sin, had no personal acquaintance (mē gnonta, second aorist active participle of ginōskō) with it.

Jesus made this claim for himself (Joh_8:46). This statement occurs also in 1Pe_2:22; Heb_4:15; Heb_7:26; 1Jn_3:5. Christ was and is “a moral miracle” (Bernard) and so more than mere man.

He made to be sin (hamartian epoiēsen). The words “to be” are not in the Greek. “Sin” here is the substantive, not the verb. God “treated as sin” the one “who knew no sin.” But he knew the contradiction of sinners (Heb_12:3).

We may not dare to probe too far into the mystery of Christ’s suffering on the Cross, but this fact throws some light on the tragic cry of Jesus just before he died: “My God, My God, why didst thou forsake me?” (Mat_27:46).

That we might become (hina hēmeis genōmetha). Note “become.” This is God’s purpose (hina) in what he did and in what Christ did. Thus alone can we obtain God’s righteousness (Rom_1:17).

Too many here probing the raz/ of YHVH in Christ, I'm not saying you @Jim B but if you read carefully, we have some here who actually have a conversation with God-a hotline to heaven-hearing Kol

--and "various kapporah's" when there there is only yachid Kapporah.

Later-