The right to abort. The right to ask for the aborted to be adopted instead. These are the same thing!

[Stan B]

.
Exactly when does a fetus become a baby, Stan?

When the head is sticking out, but the torso and limbs are still in the birth canal, is the thing part-baby and part-parasite?

(It seems that this is just one more thing upon which reproductive-healthcare-rights folks can't quite reach a consensus.)

Of course, you won't recognize this as hyperbole for the purpose of provoking thought but, hey, I understand, you've got people to insult and bitter thoughts to ponder.

Why do women who want to have babies always call them "my baby" in utero?

When you denounce people who use words you narrowly and ultra-literalistically view as incorrect as being illiterate and incapable of rational thought, you portray yourself as being mean and unloving.

Surely that's not your intention. :)
.

>>"Exactly when does a fetus become a baby, Stan?"

A fetus becomes a baby when it is born! Like . . . on their birthday!!??

As for being picky about accurate use of words, that's just who I am, having spend a quarter of a century in Law. My friends sometimes giggle about the way I study Scripture. They say I do it as if I am studying law books. :) In a court of law, whenever there is a question about accuracy of a word, The Oxford Dictionary is the final arbiter.

Anyway . . . the question here is "When does a a person become a living being?"; and God makes it very clear in Scripture:

“The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREAD OF LIFE, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).

Adam did not become a living being until then. God breathed into the nostrils of man his spirit, which who a person really is. The body dies and returns to dust, while the spirit lives on forever.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead!

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" (James 2:26 )

 

[Jack]

>>"Exactly when does a fetus become a baby, Stan?"

A fetus becomes a baby when it is born! Like . . . on their birthday!!??

As for being picky about accurate use of words, that's just who I am, having spend a quarter of a century in Law. My friends sometimes giggle about the way I study Scripture. They say I do it as if I am studying law books. :) In a court of law, whenever there is a question about accuracy of a word, The Oxford Dictionary is the final arbiter.

Anyway . . . the question here is "When does a a person become a living being?"; and God makes it very clear in Scripture:

“The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREAD OF LIFE, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).

Adam did not become a living being until then. God breathed into the nostrils of man his spirit, which who a person really is. The body dies and returns to dust, while the spirit lives on forever.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead!

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" (James 2:26 )

Gee Stan, I hope you receive more mercy from God than you give to human babies!

 

[Scott Downey]

Mary Visits Elizabeth​

39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who [h]believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.”

 

[Jack]

Mary Visits Elizabeth​

39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who [h]believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.”

Fantastic!!!

 

[Scott Downey]

Baby Screamed During Live-Birth Abortion, We Can't Forget This Baby's Cries - LifeNews.com

Members of Congress next week have an opportunity to right a travesty of injustice. Every day in the United States, babies are silently screaming in late-term abortions that deprive them of their right to life. As Congressman Trent Franks told LifeNews.com recently, “More than 18,000 ‘very late...

www.lifenews.com

 

[Jack]

Baby Screamed During Live-Birth Abortion, We Can't Forget This Baby's Cries - LifeNews.com

Members of Congress next week have an opportunity to right a travesty of injustice. Every day in the United States, babies are silently screaming in late-term abortions that deprive them of their right to life. As Congressman Trent Franks told LifeNews.com recently, “More than 18,000 ‘very late...

www.lifenews.com

Liberals don't care if babies scream in agony! $$$ They will receive the same mercy from God on Judgment Day, NONE!

 

[Scott Downey]

Live ultrasound abortion, the unborn baby reacts violently trying to escape the vacuum probe which will pull it apart inside the womb.
Somehow it is aware and knows something bad is about to happen.

 

[Stan B]

Mary Visits Elizabeth​

39 Now Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to a city of Judah, 40 and entered the house of Zacharias and greeted Elizabeth. 41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. 45 Blessed is she who [h]believed, for there will be a fulfillment of those things which were told her from the Lord.”

This has nothing whatsover to do with the topic!

This was a miraculous event where Elizabeth and Mary were not bringing new life into the world. Elizabeth was carrying Elijah, and Mary was carrying the Son of God. Elijah was 800 years old at the time, and the Son of God had an eternal past.

"His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wanted. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." Matt 17:10-13

These births were incarnations of the Son of God and Elijah:

"By sending his own Son in the form of humanity, he condemned sin by being incarnate, For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the form of humanity, he condemned sin by being incarnate, For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh ..." Romans 8:3

Elijah was incarnated as John via Elizabeth, and the Son on of God was incarnated as Jesus via Mary.

 

[BarneyFife]

>>"Exactly when does a fetus become a baby, Stan?"

A fetus becomes a baby when it is born! Like . . . on their birthday!!??

As for being picky about accurate use of words, that's just who I am, having spend a quarter of a century in Law. My friends sometimes giggle about the way I study Scripture. They say I do it as if I am studying law books. :) In a court of law, whenever there is a question about accuracy of a word, The Oxford Dictionary is the final arbiter.

Anyway . . . the question here is "When does a a person become a living being?"; and God makes it very clear in Scripture:

“The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREAD OF LIFE, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7).

Adam did not become a living being until then. God breathed into the nostrils of man his spirit, which who a person really is. The body dies and returns to dust, while the spirit lives on forever.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead!

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" (James 2:26 )

If the origin of life is restricted to the manner in which God gave it to Adam, then shouldn't we be seeing a lot of dirt turning into babies? Adam never had any form of being before the dirt and the breath.

We do.

So, by your logic, I have to suppose that you're from the school of thought that a fetus is fair game right up until the crowning.

I was present at the birth of both of my children. And God did not breathe into their nostrils, unless He is in the habit of doing it invisibly.

The imposition of uppercase on parts of Scripture does not make them conclusive, by the way.

You see, I read the Bible like a law book, too.

But I've found it safer to read with my duty to God in mind, rather than looking for loopholes (opportunities for presumption and license for evil-doing). Not saying you do, but I can't deny that I commonly see evidence of such an attitude.

The Bible also says that the life of the flesh is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11, 14).

(When Christ sweat great drops of blood in Gesthamane, he then reported to His disciples that He was already under the pall of death).

And the human fetus begins to develop its own circulatory system during the 5th week of gestation.

Which, in turn, is a mark along the timeline falling before a woman even suspects she might be pregnant.

I can see no more validity in your interpretation of the point at which life begins than that of my own.

We can, of course disagree (even amiably so) but I must say I don't see anything that looks like dirt or artificial respiration in the delivery room these days.

Eve was made from a human rib, after all. No dirt was involved at all.

I'm not sure we can count on an ultra-literalistic (there's that word again) reading of only part of a passage for such a high stakes issue. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

There's plenty of other Scripture evidence to support the blood-life connection.

 

[Stan B]

If the origin of life is restricted to the manner in which God gave it to Adam, then shouldn't we be seeing a lot of dirt turning into babies? Adam never had any form of being before the dirt and the breath.

We do.

So, by your logic, I have to suppose that you're from the school of thought that a fetus is fair game right up until the crowning.

I was present at the birth of both of my children. And God did not breathe into their nostrils, unless He is in the habit of doing it invisibly.

The imposition of uppercase on parts of Scripture does not make them conclusive, by the way.

You see, I read the Bible like a law book, too.

But I've found it safer to read with my duty to God in mind, rather than looking for loopholes (opportunities for presumption and license for evil-doing). Not saying you do, but I can't deny that I commonly see evidence of such an attitude.

The Bible also says that the life of the flesh is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11, 14).

(When Christ sweat great drops of blood in Gesthamane, he then reported to His disciples that He was already under the pall of death).

And the human fetus begins to develop its own circulatory system during the 5th week of gestation.

Which, in turn, is a mark along the timeline falling before a woman even suspects she might be pregnant.

I can see no more validity in your interpretation of the point at which life begins than that of my own.

We can, of course disagree (even amiably so) but I must say I don't see anything that looks like dirt or artificial respiration in the delivery room these days.

Eve was made from a human rib, after all. No dirt was involved at all.

I'm not sure we can count on an ultra-literalistic (there's that word again) reading of only part of a passage for such a high stakes issue. :)

>>"If the origin of life is restricted to the manner in which God gave it to Adam, then shouldn't we be seeing a lot of dirt turning into babies? Adam never had any form of being before the dirt and the breath."

Whether or not you would hate any creator who would create you from dirt. is is entirely between you and Him.

The only significant thing you have revealed here, is that you have NEVER read the Bible!

"Yet you, LORD, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand." (Isaiah 64:8)

Anyone who had ever taken time to read the Bible would know that the potter and clay theme is found throughout Scripture.

Job confirms the Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27
And then when death comes:

And as stated in "Man's body returns to the DUST from whence it came; And the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

Having studied Scripture I could go on and on with this subject, but your struggle isn't with me, it is with God!

 

[MatthewG]

Liberals don't care if babies scream in agony! $$$ They will receive the same mercy from God on Judgment Day, NONE!

Thank God Jesus Christ paid for sin. Not that it justifies the means, it’s still the point as to judge and not include yourself as a murderer, is in fact telling oneself a delusional lie. To include politics in Christianity and to point a finger at them is moronic, when Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself; and people have made choice to have abortions. And I know I have murdered others in my heart and mind, without having to actually “kill” them.

 

[BarneyFife]

>>"If the origin of life is restricted to the manner in which God gave it to Adam, then shouldn't we be seeing a lot of dirt turning into babies? Adam never had any form of being before the dirt and the breath."

Whether or not you would hate any creator who would create you from dirt. is is entirely between you and Him.

The only significant thing you have revealed here, is that you have NEVER read the Bible!

"Yet you, LORD, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand." (Isaiah 64:8)

Anyone who had ever taken time to read the Bible would know that the potter and clay theme is found throughout Scripture.

Job confirms the Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27
And then when death comes:

And as stated in "Man's body returns to the DUST from whence it came; And the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

Having studied Scripture I could go on and on with this subject, but your struggle isn't with me, it is with God!

Yeah, I understand the carbon cycle and the "He knoweth our frame, that we are but dust" imagery, but dirt and breath have nothing to do with when life begins in procreation.

And since you want to accuse (Who said anything about hating God?) and insult (I've never read the Bible?), per your usual behavior, I guess I should have known better than to think you might want to have a civilized discussion.

That's one for you.

You'll probably get me again soon enough.

Always a pleasure, Stanley. :)

 

[Stan B]

Yeah, I understand the carbon cycle and the "He knoweth our frame, that we are but dust" imagery, but dirt and breath have nothing to do with when life begins in procreation.

And since you want to accuse (Who said anything about hating God?) and insult (I've never read the Bible?), per your usual behavior, I guess I should have known better than to think you might want to have a civilized discussion.

That's one for you.

You'll probably get me again soon enough.

Always a pleasure, Stanley. :)

>>“dirt and breath have nothing to do with when life begins”

Enjoy!! My Bible says stuff entirely different from the anti-Scriptural, anti-God religion you embrace. Your choice!

 

[BarneyFife]

>>“dirt and breath have nothing to do with when life begins”

Enjoy!! My Bible says stuff entirely different from the anti-Scriptural, anti-God religion you embrace. Your choice!

Always a pleasure, Stan.

 

[Jim B]

Call it what you want; it is the deliberate termination of an innocent human being.

Grace and peace to you.

It is the deliberate termination of a pregnancy. Unfortunately, not all pregnancies result in a healthy, viable fetus.

 

[Jim B]

I heard the statistic on Answers in Genesis.

Now there is an unbiased source of information. LOL! One man's web site? LOL!

 

[BarneyFife]

It is the deliberate termination of a pregnancy. Unfortunately, not all pregnancies result in a healthy, viable fetus.

Right! Only 99.64% do. At least, of those who elect to carry to full term. There is no way to track miscarriage rates accurately, so nothing meaningful can be claimed in that regard, either way.

I can say for sure that a baby has a better chance of being born healthy if it is not invasively rendered lifeless (that's about as nice as I can put it) in the womb, especially under other than the most dire of circumstances.

 

[BarneyFife]

Now there is an unbiased source of information. LOL! One man's web site? LOL!

I'm not too familiar with the ministry but I just looked it up and approximately 300 are employed in it's operations.

LOL!
LOL!
LOL!
LOL!
LOL!
LOL!
LOL!

(I just thought I'd try that once. It didn't do much for me.)

 

[Jack]

Thank God Jesus Christ paid for sin. Not that it justifies the means, it’s still the point as to judge and not include yourself as a murderer, is in fact telling oneself a delusional lie. To include politics in Christianity and to point a finger at them is moronic, when Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself; and people have made choice to have abortions. And I know I have murdered others in my heart and mind, without having to actually “kill” them.

My main goal is to defend the Bible. It is being attacked by "Christians".