How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus was showing that after one dies it's too late...there is no bridge between heaven and hell. Appointed unto man but once to die and then the judgment.

That is if what is meant by death is going in a casket. And the purpose is to show life after death in a casket. Can any come out of torment? Scripture seems to say so.

 

[Lizbeth]

I believe she is trying to persuade you to move on to perfection. If God will permit.

Why is it assumed that I need persuading of that? Just because I don't agree with Epi's approach to the subject I suppose. My approach to going on to perfection just doesn't throw out the foundation that Christ has laid.

 

[Lizbeth]

That is if what is meant by death is going in a casket. And the purpose is to show life after death in a casket. Can any come out of torment? Scripture seems to say so.

We are meant to understand that this parable is talking about the end of their physical life on earth. That should be clear from what was said. "died and buried", "thou in thy lifetime received..". No need to go looking for rabbit trails sister.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Still to me it speaks of the repairer of the breach. I’m not saying you have to agree. You say rabbit holes. To me rabbit holes lead to dead ends. (Well not you but y’all seem to agree) I will ask you one thing though. Did He repair the breach? Did He remove the chasm? Yes. Or No?

Jesus did make a way

He took paradise in heaven with him, there is no more a gulf between tham

Sadly. Hades is still there. and all who entered in have no way out.

There is but one way to Paradise.. The way is not through hades.. or where the rich man was.. Its through justification, which comes only through faith.. Like romans 5 says,, and that and only that is the way to be reconciled to God and given his peace.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is if what is meant by death is going in a casket. And the purpose is to show life after death in a casket. Can any come out of torment? Scripture seems to say so.

no, they can not

Your either made alive in this lifetime. Or you will suffer eternal death

there is no turning back after we pass this life

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are meant to understand that this parable is talking about the end of their physical life on earth. That should be clear from what was said. "died and buried", "thou in thy lifetime received..". No need to go looking for rabbit trails sister.

romans 4 and 5 answers it all (especially 5: 1-11 where we have peace with God through his death, and our reconciliation to him through that same death t

if she would just see it.. I keep praying..

 

[Lizbeth]

Still to me it speaks of the repairer of the breach. I’m not saying you have to agree. You say rabbit holes. To me rabbit holes lead to dead ends. (Well not you but y’all seem to agree) I will ask you one thing though. Did He repair the breach? Did He remove the chasm? Yes. Or No?

Totally agree that rabbit holes lead to DEAD ends, yes!

There is no repairing of the breach between heaven and hell, no. That's why it says that gulf is FIXED. Jesus came only to repair the breach between God and man (and we could say between Jew and Gentile, though I doubt that's what that particular scrip is particularly referring to).

Must be careful of ascribing lessons to parables that Jesus didn't intend. That is also the error of assuming this is an example of someone going to heaven apart from faith. Jesus simply wasn't addressing that in this parable He was speaking to something else.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Totally agree that rabbit holes lead to DEAD ends, yes!

There is no repairing of the breach between heaven and hell, no. That's why it says that gulf is FIXED. Jesus came only to repair the breach between God and man (and we could say between Jew and Gentile, though I doubt that's what that particular scrip is particularly referring to).

Must be careful of ascribing lessons to parables that Jesus didn't intend. That is also the error of assuming this is an example of someone going to heaven apart from faith. Jesus simply wasn't addressing that in this parable He was speaking to something else.

amen! He who believes is not condemned (and will go to be with Abraham) he who does nto believe is condemned already (and headed to Hades with the rich man)

there is no in-between.. and you can;t repent after you die.. Its too late

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus did make a way

He took paradise in heaven with him, there is no more a gulf between tham

Sadly. Hades is still there. and all who entered in have no way out.

There is but one way to Paradise.. The way is not through hades.. or where the rich man was.. Its through justification, which comes only through faith.. Like romans 5 says,, and that and only that is the way to be reconciled to God and given his peace.

“Jesus did make a way” “while we were yet sinners” …He made a way. this way to pass over out of torment …we then say, it does not exist.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Totally agree that rabbit holes lead to DEAD ends, yes!

There is no repairing of the breach between heaven and hell, no. That's why it says that gulf is FIXED. Jesus came only to repair the breach between God and man (and we could say between Jew and Gentile, though I doubt that's what that particular scrip is particularly referring to).

Must be careful of ascribing lessons to parables that Jesus didn't intend. That is also the error of assuming this is an example of someone going to heaven apart from faith. Jesus simply wasn't addressing that in this parable He was speaking to something else.

Ok. All I meant was at some point while an enemy of God which side of the gulf were we on? Who died to make a way? I do wonder about saying we have passed over from death unto Life …yet saying the gulf is so fixed no one can get across. Consider Paul…all the times he said I would have come to you but was prevented; “others not wanting me to come to you”. Their thinking is: I (or we)shouldn’t come to you. But Paul claimed he was pulling them out of the fire.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

“Jesus did make a way” “while we were yet sinners” …He made a way. this way to pass over out of torment …we then say, it does not exist

while we were yet sinners,

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

It’s all through justification. Which is all based on the cross

those who are justified. Have been reconciled. And shall be saved from wrath/torment.

Torment exists. But it does not exist for those who have been justified by the blood of Christ. He purchased their freedom.. It exists for those who reject his grace in unbelief

 

[Waiting on him]

Well it was too late for the rich man to be reconciled to God after he had died, I'm afraid. I'm not going down your rabbit trails sister. Been there done that and discovered Jesus wasn't in it. We are to take our thoughts CAPTIVE to the obedience of Christ. Not go beyond what is written. There is a reason why eating fruit from the Tree of KNOWLEDGE leads to a downfall...."ye shall be as gods, KNOWING....."

You don’t believe Jesus had knowledge of good and evil?

Let me rephrase, do you believe Jesus had knowledge of good and evil?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ok. All I meant was at some point while an enemy of God which side of the gulf were we on? Who died to make a way? I do wonder about saying we have passed over from death unto Life …yet saying the gulf is so fixed no one can get across. Consider Paul…all the times he said I would have come to you but was prevented; “others not wanting me to come to you”. Their thinking is: I (or we)shouldn’t come to you. But Paul claimed he was pulling them out of the fire.

The parable speaks of after physical death It has no bearing on while we are alive on this earth It speaks of the afterlife. And the two possible destinations we may go to..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don’t believe Jesus had knowledge of good and evil?

Did Jesus sin?

 

[Waiting on him]

David's tabernacle was not a Temple. And also that verse is talking about rebuilding David's dynasty, according to what the Lord had promised, ie, having a son/descendant of his back on the throne of Israel.

I can’t seem to find a reference in scripture to David’s tabernacle?

 

[Waiting on him]

David's tabernacle was not a Temple. And also that verse is talking about rebuilding David's dynasty, according to what the Lord had promised, ie, having a son/descendant of his back on the throne of Israel.

I can’t seem to find a reference in scripture to David’s tabernacle

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I can’t seem to find a reference in scripture to David’s tabernacle?

2 Samuel 6:17
So they brought the ark of the Lord, and set it in its place in the midst of the tabernacle that David had erected for it. Then David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the Lord

1 Chronicles 16:1

The Ark Placed in the Tabernacle​

So they brought the ark of God, and set it in the midst of the tabernacle that David had erected for it. Then they offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before God.


Isaiah 16:5
In mercy the throne will be established; And One will sit on it in truth, in the tabernacleof David, Judging and seeking justice and hastening righteousness



Amos 9:11
“On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair its damages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The parable speaks of after physical death It has no bearing on while we are alive on this earth It speaks of the afterlife. And the two possible destinations we may go to..

We will never get anywhere going back and forth. We just don’t agree. For me I have to look at what is born out from the doctrine enforcing what Jesus meant concerning Lazarus and the rich man. Does it cause a better than attitude? Does it say some are special while the rest will be burned. Does it insist upon it. Pay what is owed! Does it squash any concern from what is over in torment? Absolutely not. Justifiably so they are there because of their own doing. If God had those thoughts towards us…thankfully His are higher than our own.

 

[Waiting on him]

Ok. All I meant was at some point while an enemy of God which side of the gulf were we on? Who died to make a way? I do wonder about saying we have passed over from death unto Life …yet saying the gulf is so fixed no one can get across. Consider Paul…all the times he said I would have come to you but was prevented; “others not wanting me to come to you”. Their thinking is: I (or we)shouldn’t come to you. But Paul claimed he was pulling them out of the fire.

Can’t assume everyone knows or will know at some time they were the enemy of God?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We will never get anywhere going back and forth. We just don’t agree. For me I have to look at what is born out from the doctrine enforcing what Jesus meant concerning Lazarus and the rich man. Does it cause a better than attitude? Does it say some are special while the rest will be burned. Does it insist upon it. Does it squash any concerned from what is over in torment? Absolutely not. Justifiably so they are there because of their own doing. If God had those thoughts towards us…thankfully His are higher than our own.

They are there because one believed, and one did not believe

I am trying to help you.. as are so many others. I pray you just open up to what is being shown you.

as long as you claim someone can go to hades and cross over into paradise.. Then I worry for you. In fact. we might as well live free and die hard. Because anyone can get to heaven.. there is no real justice.

Universalism and shown by EPI is not found int he word.