Why Hell is not a place of eternal conscious torment.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In my opinion, Matt 25:46 is often used as the proof-text verse for those who subscribe to ECT. The unsaved will be tormented unmercifully in the LOF for infinity due to a finite lifetime of sins and thus separated from God forever. Yet, we are told that though tormented, those in the LOF will be in the presence of Jesus, and the angels per Rev 14:10. The Lamb is present in the LOF for what reason? Any answer to that question would be speculative but focusing on Matt 25:46 cannot lead to the conclusion that hell is forever. The argument of course is that if eternal in the second half of this verse means "forever" then by necessity it also has to mean forever in the first half. Thus aionion cannot refer to an unspecified but limited age of time but it must refer to "forever" since eternal life is forever - therefore punishment must also be forever. The weakness of this claim is that it fails to take into account context. Notice that in this passage Jesus is addressing a particular age of time; i.e, the millennium. In particular, he is addressing groups of people who compose nations, separating the goats who are commanded to depart to the fire and the sheep who will enter the kingdom. The pertinent question is, what kingdom is Jesus referring to in Matt 25:34? I submit that Jesus is referring to his millennial kingdom. Thus the YLT reads with my brackets added: "And these shall go away to punishment age-during [millennium], but the righteous to life age-during [millennium]." This interpretation upholds the view that aionion refers to an age of time - in this case 1,000 years. The sheep occupy Jesus' kingdom on earth for 1,000 years while the goats depart to the lake of fire for the equivalent 1,000 years, and after this millennial period comes the great white throne judgment.
I take a different interpretation. I see it as eternal, but the word, ”punishment” is referring to “the results of punishment.”

Although the two words appear to be similar, aiōn (G165) would be referring to an age and not aiōnios (G166).

Check out this article here:

 
Last edited:

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
who translated that people are damned for eternity demonstrated to me that I better check the YLT and/or the Concordant Bible for verification of many verses. It's unfortunate that they didn't translate it correctly as most subsequent, English, translations continue to teach the lie that God condemns his children for an "eternity" of suffering.

View attachment 31314
I am not KJV Only. I do use Modern Translations, and believe they are intergral to our faith. Granted, that said, I do believe the KJB is the perfect Word of God. It simply uses archaic language that we are not familar with (Whereby we sometimes try and wrongfully enforce our Modern understanding upon it). A great article on Matthew 25:46 (by those who are not even KJV preferred) talk about the wording used here:


It’s talking about the results of punishment in Matthew 25:46 and not ongoing punishment. The article sites several examples elsewhere in the Bible to make their point.
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The irony of that isn't lost on me with regard to all of the non-Catholics that despise the Catholic Church while simultaneously believing AND parroting early Catholic teachings which live on to this day.

View attachment 31313
I believe there was always a faithful line of saints throughout history and I don’t believe the Catholic church qualifies.
 

thelord's_pearl

Well-Known Member
May 1, 2021
1,439
1,987
113
O`nowhere you have to know
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I'm still not sure about this but if Hell is not a place of eternal, conscious torment then why does it say in the Bible that there will be weeping and knashing of teeth in hell? Thank for any answers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Johann

Patrick1966

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2022
3,551
1,741
113
Orlando, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I take a different interpretation. I see it as eternal, but the word, ”punishment” is referring to “the results of punishment.”

Although the two words appear to be similar, aiōn (G165) would be referring to an age and not aiōnios (G166).

Check out this article here:

46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm still not sure about this but if Hell is not a place of eternal, conscious torment then why does it say in the Bible that there will be weeping and knashing of teeth in hell? Thank for any answers!
In the occurences of “weeping and gnashing“ (5 occurences) in the King James Bible, it appears 4 of those times to be a place of outer darkness where unfaithful believers go. I believe this is a different place than hell (Whereby both co-exist) today. Wicked unbelievers will go to hell, and unfaithful believers will be cast into outer darkness before the Judgment. At the final one time Judgment, those who are righteous will go into the Kingdom on the New Earth, and those who are wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire to be destroyed (or erased eventually from existence).


In Luke 13:28 appears to be speaking at the Judgment hall on the New Earth to unfaithful believers. They will see Abraham in the city of New Jerusalem from outside the Judgment hall (that is open), but they themselves will be thrust out and they will weep and gnash their teeth before being thrown into the Lake of Fire. Once in the Lake of Fire, it will either consume them right away or slowly burn them alive for an undetermined amount of time. Either way, Isaiah 66:24 paints the picture of the aftermath of their remains. They will be corpses.
 

Patrick1966

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2022
3,551
1,741
113
Orlando, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
eternal, conscious torment
That theology is based ENTIRELY on the mistranslation of the Greek word (and its variants) "aiónios". One has to REJECT God's word in order to believe in ECT, such as 1 Timothy 4:10.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's true. How does that translate to me believing in "conditional" immortality?
Generally the two major positions is ECT or Conditional Immortality.

I believe in universal salvation.
I generally cannot take anyone seriously who believes this way.
It is a gross twisting of too many Scriptures to justify such a belief.
If such a belief was true, then I would not bother to live for God or the Lord.
Yes, I heard some Universal reconciliationists believe hell is real and it will be a place that the wicked will go to, but in time they will eventually make it into the Kingdom. So again, there is no real motivation to live right or even think about God. Temporal punishment is not a real motivating factor. Especially when one will just be rewarded with Heaven later. That’s insane, and it would defeat the purpose of why we are here. Life would technically be meaningless if UR was true. Just do whatever you want and get into Heaven eventually. Crazy. That’s crazy talk.
 

Patrick1966

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2022
3,551
1,741
113
Orlando, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I generally cannot take anyone seriously who believe this way.
Then you're problem isn't with me, it's with God.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
 

Patrick1966

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2022
3,551
1,741
113
Orlando, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, I heard some Universal reconciliationists believe hell is real and it will be a place that the wicked will go to, but in time they will eventually make it into the Kingdom.
Hebrews 1:3 ESV

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hebrews 1:3 ESV

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Sorry, I don’t debate or discuss to change the minds of Univeralists anymore than I would a liberal. No offense, but I believe they are too far down the rabbit hole to pull out. Only prayer can help - IMHO.
 

Patrick1966

Well-Known Member
Dec 21, 2022
3,551
1,741
113
Orlando, Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry, I don’t debate or discuss to change the minds of Univeralists anymore than I would a liberal. No offense, but I believe they are too far down the rabbit hole to pull out. Only prayer can help - IMHO.
As I said, to believe in ETC one has to REJECT the word of God.
 

Bible Highlighter

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2022
4,943
1,083
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Really? Would the threat of a 1,000 years in solitary confinement deter you from engaging in ungodly behavior? Or would you say "Hey, it's not FOREVER so no big deal!"?
God sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. But again… the end goal is the same. That would not really deter me if I knew I would eventually make it into Heaven. What is a deterrent is knowing I would be destroyed and missing out on Heaven (Along with punishment or pain). It’s a tripple whammy. Temporal suffering can be endured if one knows they will be in peaceful bliss. But to miss out on God’s kingdom (Knowing that you could have been there is too painful to think about).