How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[amigo de christo]

Its very obvious as to what epi is trying to do . HE is trying to convince us of this other we are one religoin as BEING the SOLUTION .
Its very obvious his desire is for us to embrace this path and not to hold to what he calls dogmatic views of CHRIST ALONE .
You aint fooling the sheep epi . Nor are you the first to come in and try and plant such doubts .
You want to convince us , LIKE YOU are convinced that it simply dont matter what one believes what religoin he follows
or even atheism , so long as they come together for the social gospel , THEY JUST FINE .
It aint working epi . There have been men much wiser than yourself who have come along .
I have met some of them in person . GOD kept me safe from their delusion .
Lambs heed JESUS and not a lie no matter how caring , how kind the lie seems . The lambs wont buy it .
The lambs CLING TO CHRIST ALONE for SALVATION and they will preach HIM , BELIEVE IN HIM
and be hearers and doers of what HE taught .

 

[Lizbeth]

If one understands that whether if one is on the ground floor or upstairs on the second floor. ...we are all in the same house....the house of God. The doctrine of Christ...that I teach ...takes both levels into account. Whether we are present or absent from the Lord (on the second level) we are to do all things to walk in an acceptable manner...not adding sin to sin by limiting God and relying on the carnal understanding.

My function in the Body is like a mirror. Those who are in iniquity will hate that there is a level of faith, power, and understanding beyond what they presently know of. That gets the outer man's religious pride in a snit...and what is really the spirit of Cain...if you understand the prophetic nature of the race of faith. They will say that I am the one doing exactly what they are doing. Too often, God's perspective is not understood nor will people accept it as other than just one more opinion. People can't discern the oracle of God amidst the noise of public opinion.

But to limit God to a growth into Christ while remaining on the first floor...trying to improve oneself into Christ while claiming to see and be rich...is error. The church in Laodicea serves as a warning to all who esteem the gift of an initial grace to be enough to CLAIM to have ALL the fulness of God...all the fulness of grace...and all the fulness of faith......while denying a walk that is holy and without blemish. We forego leaving room for God (or leaving Him out) at our peril. Jesus says...buy from Me.

Holiness demands a proper respect for the truth at that level. It demands a fear of the Lord...for one's own safety. Let us not limit God as the Israelites tested God in the wilderness...and so left their carcasses there. As Paul said...be not high-minded but fear...lest any of us also be cut off as they were.

But you aren't taking all levels into account though...you are denying the foundational things, which we have both received, as well as that we are to apprehend and manifest them. Grow up INTO the Head. Grow up INTO all that we have received by grace. INCREASE in the measure of grace and faith that we received.

What I seem to see are things that are coming from the carnal mind. That is why there is an aspect of being too cut and dried, so to speak. (That is where ecumenicalism comes from too....that is of the carnal mind as well.) I don't know why, but I recommend that you seek the Lord for that and for the mind of Christ, brother.....it will tweek things and jump them over into the right track. The difference between flesh (carnal mind) and spirit is often just a thin fine line, as it were.

 

[Episkopos]

Imagine that all believers voluntarily gave up all their highfalutin claims to be more than than they are, to adopt the idea that something greater is available and even desirable. What would that do?

Horror of horrors...would that not produce?...

1. Humility
2. Fear of the Lord
3. Teachability

All things to be avoided at all cost. We do have a reputation to maintain, after all!

Could it be that God leaves the higher walk out of the picture for most for the very reason to test the spirit within a person to see whether they will resist the truth and rest on a self-righteous claim for a set of dogmatic beliefs?

So then the meek are they who fear and become wise unto salvation. The saints already walk in the power of the life to come. And the others that are neither meek nor holy...neither hot nor cold...are rejected just like the Israelites were before them.

 

[Episkopos]

But you aren't taking all levels into account though...you are denying the foundational things, which we have both received, as well as that we are to apprehend and manifest them. Grow up INTO the Head. Grow up INTO all that we have received by grace. INCREASE in the measure of grace and faith that we received.

I have said that the foundation is Christ. But you are stubbornly maintaining that the foundation is Christ IN YOU. To build ON Christ you need to go to where He is...in Zion....being seated with Him in heavenly places. For real...through being translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son. You know all the verses...you are just not able to see how everything fits together.

 

[amigo de christo]

That is unscriptural.

Here’s the biblical reason:

“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.” (Galatians 3:22)

This “deeper” and “higher walk” you keep speaking of is also unscriptural. Or are you labeling biblical doctrine in unbiblical terms?

I can’t figure you out. You seem to be speaking in secret society speak of some sort…




I have read much of what you write.

It’s a mixed bag of truth and mystery…

YOU caught him . SEE he is trying to lead folks away frorm Faith in CHRIST ALONE .
BUT YOU GOT HIM and exposed it fast . That the promise BY FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST might be given to those that BELIEVE .

 

[VictoryinJesus]

“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.” (Galatians 3:22)

Looking at Romans 5:10 helps me.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son,
Much more,
Having been reconciled
We shall be saved by His Life.

…”all under sin” in the above says to me all are made dead through His death.
If all are dead…then are all Alive unto God?

Because that is not what we claim by going out to do what? Preach what?

Is there a difference in made dead and reconciled through the death of His Son? And the “much more” being reconciled by His Life?


2 Corinthians 3:9
if the ministry of condemnation has glory,
Much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
Indeed, what had glory in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it.
For if what which passes away was with glory,
Much more that which remains is in glory.

Do I want to only be dead through the death of His Son…what of “much more” reconciled by His Life.

There seems to also be a difference between “good” and “perfect”

This “deeper” and “higher walk” you keep speaking of is also unscriptural. Or are you labeling biblical doctrine in unbiblical terms?

There seems to be a difference between being
Dead through the death of His Son.
If He dies for all then all were dead?
And;
Dead through the death of His Son, “much more” being reconciled…to Live (Alive unto God) by His Life?

Maybe the difference is more clearly seen in
Being buried
Or being buried and resurrected?

 

[ChristisGod]

Why would I need a book to speak too God?

God speaks through His word- the Bible

 

[Episkopos]

Its very obvious as to what epi is trying to do .

This both a misinformed and reactionary claim.

HE is trying to convince us of this other we are one religoin as BEING the SOLUTION .

I don't see what you're saying here...Christianity is not a religion...although the ones who have taught you, and made careers from your acceptance of them....have made it appear to be so.

Its very obvious his desire is for us to embrace this path and not to hold to what he calls dogmatic views of CHRIST ALONE .

The dogmatic view that the flesh is justified by beliefs alone. Even the demons believe. The difference is that people will justify themselves because they see their beliefs as being sufficient to be comparable to what the bible is attesting to.

You aint fooling the sheep epi .

The sheep have already been fooled..and have been scattered on every hill.

Nor are you the first to come in and try and plant such doubts .

One must often tear down the errors before building with proper materials. What's the point of having structures that will just burn up on judgment day anyway?

You want to convince us , LIKE YOU are convinced that it simply dont matter what one believes what religoin he follows

I am testifying to the gospel and how that works with we humans ...how we receive it or reject it, or twist its meaning to justify the flesh.

or even atheism ,

????

so long as they come together for the social gospel , THEY JUST FINE .

I teach the high calling in Christ. How is that social? Re-read my posts...

It aint working epi .

I would fall off my chair if I saw any light penetrating into minds that have been covered over by a dogmatic religion that poses as the truth.

There have been men much wiser than yourself who have come along .
I have met some of them in person . GOD kept me safe from their delusion .

That's you speaking...no idea how this is important except to play to the crowd here and stroke your own ego.

Lambs heed JESUS and not a lie no matter how caring , how kind the lie seems . The lambs wont buy it .

It is Jesus that is knocking on the door my friend. But you are convinced that only wolves would try to wake you out of your religious slumber...seeing your dream seems so real.

The lambs CLING TO CHRIST ALONE for SALVATION and they will preach HIM , BELIEVE IN HIM
and be hearers and doers of what HE taught .

Being stubborn only counts if you are already experiencing the fulness of God. Otherwise you may just be resisting with all your strength what you should be loving with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.

 

[ChristisGod]

How so? Please explain. I can't find the rest of your post.

Paul is talking about himself under the law. Context is king

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

The sheep have already been fooled..and have been scattered on every hill.

No His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him.

John 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[ChristisGod]

You wont even discuss what the Bible says, You focus on one small sentence or two and refuse to look at the passage.

You hurt yourself my friend. Your words have no meaning when you refuse to discuss the whole of the passage.

Your strawman argument and puffy words may help you to remain in this state. But it is not going to convince those who trust God to change their view

Exactly

 

[Jim B]

Why would I need a book to speak too God?

You don't need a book to speak to God. Where did you get that idea?

 

[amigo de christo]

No His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him.

John 10:27-28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

onwards my friend . we point to CHRIST and HE ALONE .

 

[ChristisGod]

I feel the thread has taken too many twists and turns, so I'm reposting a part of the OP for discussion as follows...

So we, in our estimation, need to see our default setting as considering sin, and the lifestyle associated with it, as being dead to us. Does that mean we can claim to be without sin by a mere reckoning? We can only reckon with our mind. Our reckoning helps to line up our way of thinking with the direction we are hoping to go in. Only God can rescue us from the power of the flesh.



We can indeed ALWAYS triumph over the flesh..but that takes the power of the cross and walking in the Spirit. Reckoning ourselves to be dead to sin is akin to carrying our own cross...not being crucified on the cross of Christ. That is at a whole other level and at a depth that very few will be able to comprehend let alone experience.

Context is king not the verse you ripped away from its CONTEXT.

Romans 6
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

 

[Jim B]

The problem with many in the churches is they are being taught to reckon yourselves alive unto sin
they are not being taught about the power of Christ to transform the life , rather that are taught we
are always slaves to sin . ONLY the flesh is a slave to sin , only the old man is a slave to sin .
HEED the SPIRIT , not the flesh and ye will not fullfill the lusts of the flesh .

What evidence do you have that "The problem with many in the churches is they are being taught to reckon yourselves alive unto sin they are not being taught about the power of Christ to transform the life , rather that are taught we are always slaves to sin"? As I see it, this is just more of your worthless condemnation of the church, i.e., the body of Christ. Why do you keep up your incessant, blasphemous judgement of the body of Christ???

You will have to answer one day for your condemnation of HIS BODY, i.e., the church!

 

[ChristisGod]

onwards my friend . we point to CHRIST and HE ALONE .

Amen my brother !

 

[Jim B]

onwards my friend . we point to CHRIST and HE ALONE .

See my post #275 above. You condemn the body of Christ!!!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Maybe the difference is more clearly seen in
Being buried
Or being buried and resurrected?

Consider for a moment if Christ is only buried, and is Not raised up unto Life.

If He is only “buried” …not raised up…what are we told?
1 Corinthians 15:15-17 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. [16] For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: [17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet(dead) in your sins.

 

[amigo de christo]

God speaks through His word- the Bible

Folks want to pull away from the bible and rather heed seducing spirits .
Deep down anyone who does such a thing is doing it cause something in that bible gets in the way of what they desire .
some lust or etc . They aint fooling the lambs . STAY WELL DUG IN IT . JESUS IS OUR HOPE and our salvation .
If folks deny HIM they will be denied BY HIM . And all judgment has been comitted to the SON .
IT WILL TRULY BE CHRIST JESUS that all nations , tribes ,tongues shall stand before .
I shudder in dire fear for those who denied HIM and worse so for those who came in the name of a teacher
or a prophet and dared to point to self and not to Christ .
Greater damnation awaits those who came in using HIS name in order to draw folks away from HIM and the one true gospel .
I truly shudder in dire fear for a few folks my friend . But as for us , WE POINT TO CHRIST . Now raise those hands and praise the LORD

 

[amigo de christo]

See my post #275 above. You condemn the body of Christ!!!

The body of CHRIST , points to CHRIST . i hope you realize that .