How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Episkopos]

He has given you what the Bible says about your question numerous times. We all have.

And here you go again with your own smoke screen

All I see is people trying to hide behind bible words...a smokescreen, as you say (again the backwards reasoning).

Anybody can read a verse and then say...I stand on that. THAT verse is FOR ME. But you can never ask them what THEY mean by that. No, they believe they are as pure as the word of God itself. We are looking for something deeper (less superficial) here than just a declaration of justification for one's beliefs.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm cuing on what you said earlier.

You are over-estimating what being born again accomplishes in regards to the death and resurrection of the saint. You are taking a down-payment...to be the full payment.

I suggest reading the parables of the kingdom again. The cost of entering into resurrection life ...kingdom life...is ALL.

So you only have a superficial grasp of the gospel at this point. Are you interested in remedying that?

I am just reading what the passage said

The fact you refuse continually with me or anyone else has asked you about being baptized into Christ and his death. Just shows your fear of understanding what we know in our hearts

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All I see is people trying to hide behind bible words...a smokescreen, as you say (again the backwards reasoning).

Anybody can read a verse and then say...I stand on that. THAT verse is FOR ME. But you can never ask them what THEY mean by that. No, they believe they are as pure as the word of God itself. We are looking for something deeper (less superficial) here than just a declaration of justification for one's beliefs.

You wont even discuss what the Bible says, You focus on one small sentence or two and refuse to look at the passage.

You hurt yourself my friend. Your words have no meaning when you refuse to discuss the whole of the passage.

Your strawman argument and puffy words may help you to remain in this state. But it is not going to convince those who trust God to change their view

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Why would I need a book to speak too God?

“…the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.” (1 Samuel 3:21)

“…And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.” (1 Samuel 3:1)

 

[Episkopos]

I am just reading what the passage said

The question is what is it saying to you. How are you interpreting the passage. What is the process in thinking that what you think is actually true...for you.

The fact you refuse continually with me or anyone else has asked you about being baptized into Christ and his death. Just shows your fear of understanding what we know in our hearts

I have said many times that being crucified and raised again to resurrection life is by a WHOLE measure of grace that very few will seek after and find. Why? Because they have been conditioned to accept a sample...a free sample...as the whole thing.

Have I not said that many times?

Do you keep Jesus' words in mind as you are reading what Paul wrote...or are you able to ignore all the parables as you surmise what you think Paul's writings are telling you?

How are the parable of Christ fulfilled in your understanding of Paul? How does what you believe about yourself line up with other authors of the bible?

 

[Episkopos]

“…the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.” (1 Samuel 3:21)

“…And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.” (1 Samuel 3:1)

Is God only found by opening a bible? Does walking in the Spirit necessitate having your nose in an open bible so as not to notice the traffic you are walking in?

The bible points to God and is good for instruction in righteousness. But the connection is to be taken directly into His presence...to walk as Jesus walked. Did Jesus walk around with a bible scroll? Did the early church even have bibles?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

How are you interpreting the passage.

“…Yea, hath God said…?” (Genesis 3:1)

Eerily similar…

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The bible points to God and is good for instruction in righteousness.

The Holy Bible is a weapon:

“…the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:” (Ephesians 6:17)

Jesus wielded it well against Satan.

The rest of your post is provocative nonsense…

 

[Episkopos]

You wont even discuss what the Bible says,

Amazing how you always speak about what you are doing. I opened this thread to discuss a bible verse...and accompanying bible reference..and what you have served up is a personal attack and slander for me not believing everything you say about yourself. You are not allowing others the freedom to question your interpretations.....just hurl abuse as per a wounded ego. But that is not a constructive way to behave.

You focus on one small sentence or two and refuse to look at the passage.

If I am focusing on the words ...every word...of the bible then I am looking at the passage. Do you see how you make everything backward???

You hurt yourself my friend. Your words have no meaning when you refuse to discuss the whole of the passage.

Exactly...rhetorically speaking.

Your strawman argument and puffy words may help you to remain in this state. But it is not going to convince those who trust God to change their view

Exactly...your conviction and your inability to convey an argument with any kind of clarity...without resorting to personal attacks towards those who do not IMMEDIATELY agree with you...is telling here.

But do you have anything to contribute?

 

[Episkopos]

“…Yea, hath God said…?” (Genesis 3:1)

Eerily similar…

But backwards. Are you joining the backward interpretation club? I'm exposing the flesh...not defending it. Remember, if you don't see how your outer man is trying to stifle the life in the inner man...then iniquity is at the door...trying to get in.

 

[MatthewG]

It’s to aS Paul says in Colossians 3

“If, then, ye were raised with the Christ, the things above seek ye, where the Christ is, on the right hand of God seated, the things above mind ye, not the things upon the earth, for ye did die, and your life hath been hid with the Christ in God; when the Christ — our life — may be manifested, then also we with him shall be manifested in glory. Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth — whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry — because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience, in which also ye — ye did walk once, when ye lived in them; but now put off, even ye, the whole — anger, wrath, malice, evil-speaking, filthy talking — out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, having put off the old man with his practices, and having put on the new, which is renewed in regard to knowledge, after the image of Him who did create him; where there is not Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, servant, freeman — but the all and in all — Christ. Put on, therefore, as choice ones of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humble-mindedness, meekness, long-suffering, forbearing one another, and forgiving each other, if any one with any one may have a quarrel, as also the Christ did forgive you — so also ye; and above all these things, [have] love, which is a bond of the perfection, and let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also ye were called in one body, and become thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing each other, in psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, in grace singing in your hearts to the Lord; and all, whatever ye may do in word or in work, [do] all things in the name of the Lord Jesus — giving thanks to the God and Father, through him. The wives! be subject to your own husbands, as is fit in the Lord; the husbands! love your wives, and be not bitter with them; the children! obey the parents in all things, for this is well-pleasing to the Lord; the fathers! vex not your children, lest they be discouraged. The servants! obey in all things those who are masters according to the flesh, not in eye-service as men-pleasers, but in simplicity of heart, fearing God; and all, whatever ye may do — out of soul work — as to the Lord, and not to men, having known that from the Lord ye shall receive the recompense of the inheritance — for the Lord Christ ye serve; and he who is doing unrighteously shall receive what he did unrighteously, and there is no acceptance of persons.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭25‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Colossians 3:1-25 If, then, ye were raised with the Christ, the things above seek ye, where the Christ is, on the right hand of God seated, the things above mind ye, not the things upon the earth, for ye did die, and y | Young's Literal Translation 1

If, then, ye were raised with the Christ, the things above seek ye, where the Christ is, on the right hand of God seated, the things above mind ye, not the things upon the earth, for ye did die, and y

bible.com

 

[Episkopos]

The Holy Bible is a weapon:

“…the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:” (Ephesians 6:17)

You are taking things too literally. The bible is not in the eternal realm. But the spiritual war is. You will need a means to take what the bible is saying...and with faith and God's grace...move INTO that realm to do battle there with His word... a living word. Not just words on a page.

There is a lot of bible idolatry these days. Cancelling the Spirit because the bible is seen as God Himself.

Jesus wielded it well against Satan.

The bible or the word of truth?

The rest of your post is provocative nonsense…

How so?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Are you joining the backward interpretation club?

I’m in the plain interpretation club.

I accept the written word as it is plainly written using only what is contained therein to discern possible multiple applications of the text when those applications are allowed by the scriptures.

I'm exposing the flesh..

You’re quenching the Spirit.

if you don't see how your outer man is trying to stifle the life in the inner man...

My outer man has no influence over me.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There is a lot of bible idolatry these days.

Where’s @Wrangler ?

I see you have the same spirit as he does in this regard.

The bible or the word of truth?

The word of truth contained in the scriptures.

To stay sharp in the word you must read the scriptures frequently and completely.

This generation seems to be unappreciative of how accessible the holy scriptures are to them as they seem to diminish its importance on “paper and ink”

I personally find this attitude abominable!

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul told us what it means.

And it was showed to you.

Romans 6:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, [c]reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Its in the passage

How did we DIE to sin?

1. We were baptized into Jesus
2. We were baptized into his death
3. We were buried with Christ in Baptism
4. Just as CHrist was raised, we should walk in newness (because we are alive with him)
5. We were until with him in his death (his death is applied to us, we died with him)
Certainly we WILL be united with him in newness (not might)
6. Because of the above facts, we are no longer slaved to sin TO LIVE in sin
7/ Christ died to sin once for all, (see above, we died with him)
8. Death no longer has dominion over Christ.
9 Likewise (since we died with Christ) RECKON ourselves ALSO dead to sin, but ALIVE to God (based on EVERYTHING ABOVE)
Because as death had no more dominion over christ, It has no more dominion over us. The power of sin is BROKEN The power to live with Christ is OURS.

Its actually quite a simple statement to understand, all we have to do is slow down and READ what is said.

Thats right . Give the GLORY to GOD . Point to Christ . GIVE GOD , HIS CHRIST , ALL the credit . Yes indeed .
Epi is pointing to us for our own methods to be made righteous and doing good .
WHEN it was GOD who gave us power over sin , not us , GOD DID this . For it was GOD who changed our hearts .
Our works are wrought in GOD , in CHRIST . Those who do good will come to me
that it may be made manifest their works were wrought in God . Even cornelious was led to Christ .
Paul never gave himself any credit for the old man leading him to GOD . GOD simply drew HIM to CHRIST .
Having not the rigtheousness which is in the law , BUT THE RIGHTESOUNESS which is of GOD by Faith . FAITH IN CHRIST .
THEY wont point to CHRIST . BUT WE WILL MY FRIEND . WE WILL .

 

[Episkopos]

I’m in the plain interpretation club.

I accept the written word as it is plainly written using only what is contained therein to discern possible multiple applications of the text when those applications are allowed by the scriptures.

everybody says that as they split into thousands of factions. The issue is to lay out one's interpretation and WHY that is so. That's using common sense...or "plain" sense. Everything else is vain religion.

You’re quenching the Spirit.

Which spirit? Certainly not the Holy Spirit.

My outer man has no influence over me.

Then you are deluded, my friend...and that's why you can't hang in there when deeper truth is brought forth. You vacillate and then your outer man kicks in and says...ok that's too far!

It's very important to know yourself...not just the bible you think agrees with your every interpretation.

Why does everybody think their way is right?


Proverbs 14:12
"There is a way which seems right unto a man, But the end thereof are the ways of death."

 

[Episkopos]

Thats right . Give the GLORY to GOD . Point to Christ . GIVE GOD , HIS CHRIST , ALL the credit . Yes indeed .
Epi is pointing to us for our own methods to be made righteous and doing good .
WHEN it was GOD who gave us power over sin , not us , GOD DID this . For it was GOD who changed our hearts .
Our works are wrought in GOD , in CHRIST . Those who do good will come to me
that it may be made manifest their works were wrought in God . Even cornelious was led to Christ .
Paul never gave himself any credit for the old man leading him to GOD . GOD simply drew HIM to CHRIST .
Having not the rigtheousness which is in the law , BUT THE RIGHTESOUNESS which is of GOD by Faith . FAITH IN CHRIST .
THEY wont point to CHRIST . BUT WE WILL MY FRIEND . WE WILL .

Back for a religious ego boost I see. Can you stop the pontificating long enough to address the subject of this thread?


What does reckoning oneself to be dead to sin entail? Is that the final step in Christian growth....reckoning? Or is there more to it as Paul continues into Romans 7 and 8??

 

[amigo de christo]

Back for a religious ego boost I see. Can you stop the pontificating long enough to address the subject of this thread?


What does reckoning oneself to be dead to sin entail? Is that the final step in Christian growth....reckoning? Or is there more to it as Paul continues into Romans 7 and 8??

Submit to GOD , resist the devil and HE will flee . To submit to GOD entails we Submit to HIS righteousness .
aka BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST .
From that is given power over the old man and his deeds .

 

[amigo de christo]

The problem with many in the churches is they are being taught to reckon yourselves alive unto sin
they are not being taught about the power of Christ to transform the life , rather that are taught we
are always slaves to sin . ONLY the flesh is a slave to sin , only the old man is a slave to sin .
HEED the SPIRIT , not the flesh and ye will not fullfill the lusts of the flesh .

 

[Episkopos]

I feel the thread has taken too many twists and turns, so I'm reposting a part of the OP for discussion as follows...

So we, in our estimation, need to see our default setting as considering sin, and the lifestyle associated with it, as being dead to us. Does that mean we can claim to be without sin by a mere reckoning? We can only reckon with our mind. Our reckoning helps to line up our way of thinking with the direction we are hoping to go in. Only God can rescue us from the power of the flesh.



We can indeed ALWAYS triumph over the flesh..but that takes the power of the cross and walking in the Spirit. Reckoning ourselves to be dead to sin is akin to carrying our own cross...not being crucified on the cross of Christ. That is at a whole other level and at a depth that very few will be able to comprehend let alone experience.