What is the one true Church?

[Illuminator]

Thanks. I guess I was under the mistaken impression that the church taught that salvation is only possible through them.

Outside the Church there is no Salvation (Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus) Archives

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (extra ecclesiam nulla salus) is a doctrine of the Catholic Faith that was taught By Jesus Christ to His Apostles, preached by the Fathers, defined by popes and councils and piously believed by the faithful in every age of the Church. Here is how the...

catholicism.org

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

You are grossly mistaken. There were no Protestants in 1302, so Unam Sanctum did not apply to non-existing Protestants.
The Apostles taught no salvation outside the church, and the CC does not have the authority to change what the Apostles taught.
"outside which no one at all is saved" has to be understood the way the Church understands it, not the way anti-Catholics force it to mean something it doesn't 700 years after the fact.

One of the most misunderstood teachings of the Catholic Church is this one:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

Those trying to grasp the meaning of this teaching often struggle with its formulations by various Church Fathers and Church Councils down through history. Of course, to understand an isolated formulation of any Church teaching,

• one must study the historical context within which it was written:
• why it was written,
• what was going on in the Church at the time,
• who the intended audience was, and so on.

One must discover how the magisterium (teaching office) of the Church understands its own teaching. If someone fails to do this and chooses, rather, to simply treat a particular formulation as a stand-alone teaching, he runs the risk of seriously misunderstanding it.

What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means

One of the most misunderstood teachings of the Catholic Church is this one: “Outside the Church there is no salvation” (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)...

www.catholic.com

Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

The Catholic Church teaches infallibly, “extra ecclesiam nulla salus,” or, “outside the Church there is no salvation.” But as with all dogmas of the Faith, this...

www.catholic.com

What the Early Church Believed: Salvation Outside the Church

The early Church held the same position as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is necessary to be a Catholic to be saved, there are exceptions.

www.catholic.com

 

[Keiw]

You are grossly mistaken. There were no Protestants in 1302, so Unam Sanctum did not apply to non-existing Protestants.
The Apostles taught no salvation outside the church, and the CC does not have the authority to change what the Apostles taught.
"outside which no one at all is saved" has to be understood the way the Church understands it, not the way anti-Catholics force it to mean something it doesn't 700 years after the fact.

One of the most misunderstood teachings of the Catholic Church is this one:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation” (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

Those trying to grasp the meaning of this teaching often struggle with its formulations by various Church Fathers and Church Councils down through history. Of course, to understand an isolated formulation of any Church teaching,

• one must study the historical context within which it was written:
• why it was written,
• what was going on in the Church at the time,
• who the intended audience was, and so on.

One must discover how the magisterium (teaching office) of the Church understands its own teaching. If someone fails to do this and chooses, rather, to simply treat a particular formulation as a stand-alone teaching, he runs the risk of seriously misunderstanding it.

What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means

One of the most misunderstood teachings of the Catholic Church is this one: “Outside the Church there is no salvation” (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)...

www.catholic.com

Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

The Catholic Church teaches infallibly, “extra ecclesiam nulla salus,” or, “outside the Church there is no salvation.” But as with all dogmas of the Faith, this...

www.catholic.com

What the Early Church Believed: Salvation Outside the Church

The early Church held the same position as the contemporary Church does—that is, while it is necessary to be a Catholic to be saved, there are exceptions.

www.catholic.com

Catholicism never had Jesus.

 

[Illuminator]

He said succumb to darkness--like the religion that came out of Rome was and all her branches--they were never his. They are a house divided, they will not stand--Jesus has1 single religion, this is a true mark-1Cor 1:10-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division.

Then religion that came out of Rome was the same religion that came out of Jerusalem after the death of John. "they were never his"??? Seriously???
"they were never his" when the Church refuted Montanism (Late 2nd Century)
"they were never his" when the Church refuted the Arian heresy in 325?
"they were never his" when the Church refuted Sabellianism (Early 3rd Century)?
"they were never his" when the Church refuted Pelagianism (5th Century)
"they were never his" when the Church refuted Nestorianism (5th Century)

Tell us, Kiew, what year did the historic Church separate from Itself?

Catholics and Protestants are united by virtue of the Trinity. There is no escape. Anti-trinitarians are by default, anti-Protestant.

 

[Illuminator]

Catholicism never had Jesus.

You can't contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way, asserting empty-headed flaming zingers like this exposes yourself as a troll.

 

[Patrick1966]

You are grossly mistaken.

How am I "grossly mistaken"? Did or did NOT the Catholic Church once teach that there is no salvation outside of the "church"?

 

[Patrick1966]

The challenge of belonging to a denomination is being able to justify its doctrines. The Catholic Church has so many failed doctrinal beliefs that I felt no choice but to recognize that it is NOT the "church" of Christ and to leave it.

The church of Christ is his body of believers, not a worldly institution. I hope my Catholic brothers and sisters can recognize this.

 

[Philip James]

He said succumb to darkness--like the religion that came out of Rome was and all her branches--they were never his. They are a house divided, they will not stand--Jesus has1 single religion, this is a true mark-1Cor 1:10-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division.

If Rome is your stumbling block, then come to the Feast with Alexandria, come with Constantinople.... but come!


The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.

Pax et Bonum

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus reading this thread must be...

 

[Illuminator]

How am I "grossly mistaken"? Did or did NOT the Catholic Church once teach that there is no salvation outside of the "church"?

It's not my fault post #1501 is invisible to you. I gave a thorough explanation, you just don't like it.

 

[Patrick1966]

It's not my fault post #1501 is invisible to you. I gave a thorough explanation, you just don't like it.

You responded dishonestly and this response is equally as disingenuous. The fact is that you cannot tolerate any questioning of your belief system and then lash out with hatred when questioned.

 

[Illuminator]

The challenge of belonging to a denomination is being able to justify its doctrines.

Denominations have failed to justify the unbiblical, illogical, divisive, unhistorical man made tradition of sola scriptura.

The Catholic Church has so many failed doctrinal beliefs that I felt no choice but to recognize that it is NOT the "church" of Christ and to leave it.

Almost everything you have been taught or read about the Catholic Church is false.
Everything that is true in your beliefs is found in the Catholic Church.
You've made up your mind, so trying to explain doctrinal beliefs to you is pointless.
Proof of this is you ignoring the explanation of "no salvation outside the church" in post #1501, your responded with"
"How am I "grossly mistaken"? Did or did NOT the Catholic Church once teach that there is no salvation outside of the "church"?"
You don't want explanations, you prefer to argue out of ignorance and prejudice. That's why you resist explanations.

The church of Christ is his body of believers, not a worldly institution. I hope my Catholic brothers and sisters can recognize this.

The church of Christ is his body of believers is correct.
Not an institution is false because your definition of institution is false.

DEFINITION IF "INSTITUTIONS"
a
: an established organization or corporation (such as a bank or university) especially of a public character

b:
a facility or establishment in which people (such as the sick or needy) live and receive care typically in a confined setting and often without individual consent
… the testator disinherited her siblings over their efforts to have her committed to a mental institution in the wake of several suicide attempts.—William M. McGovern Jr.

​

c
: a significant practice, relationship, or organization in a society or culture
the institution of marriage

​

also : something or someone firmly associated with a place or thing​

Definition of INSTITUTION

an established organization or corporation (such as a bank or university) especially of a public character; a facility or establishment in which people (such as the sick or needy) live and receive care typically in a confined setting and often without individual consent… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

The Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 fits this definition to a "T". Peter, James and John together with the Apostles and elders were an institution. Here, you despise the institutional nature of the Church from the very beginning. Impotent little Bible clubs, who think they are a church, can't even organize an inner city soup kitchen, which requires an institution to function even at the lowest level.

 

[Illuminator]

You responded dishonestly and this response is equally as disingenuous. The fact is that you cannot tolerate any questioning of your belief system and then lash out with hatred when questioned.

Please quote "dishonesty" or "hatred" in post #1501, and stop with the false accusations. You are the one that can't tolerated being corrected out of pride, that much should be obvious to the readers. "no salvation outside the church" does not mean what you want it to mean, no matter how loud you scream your private misunderstanding of 5 words.

 

[Patrick1966]

Please quote "dishonesty" or "hatred" in post #1501, and stop with the lies and false accusations. You are the one that can't tolerated being corrected out of pride, that much should be obvious to the readers.

You've been on the warpath in this thread long before I arrived.

 

[Illuminator]

You've been on the warpath in this thread long before I arrived.

Wrong. Defending against stupid insults and gross misrepresentations and explaining things in a concise manner is not a warpath. Replying with false accusations one after another is a war path. This reply shows your hypocrisy and an ongoing refusal to accept explanations. Ignorance may be blissful, but it is never illuminating.
Again, quote from my "warpath" posts and stop making things up, with even MORE stupid insults. .

 

[BreadOfLife]

He never said it wouldn't go away.

He absolutely did.
Matt 16:18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

If it "goes away" - then it succumbs.

 

[Patrick1966]

He absolutely did.
Matt 16:16-19
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

If it "goes away" - then it succumbs.

Is Peter a rock or the rock?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is Peter a rock or the rock?

He is THE Rock of Matt. 16:18.

Abraham is THE Rock of Isa. 50:1-2.

Jesus is THE Rock of Matt. 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, 1 Pet. 2:7, Acts 4:11 and other verses.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Gen 28:20-21 . . Jacob then made a vow, saying: If God remains with me,
if He protects me on this journey that I am making, and gives me bread to
eat and clothing to wear, and if I return safe to my father's house-- The Lord
shall be my god.

What did Jacob say? The Lord wasn't his god up to that point? Not
necessarily. It wasn't uncommon in those days for people to dabble in other
gods right along with Jehovah. The practice was later strictly forbidden by
the first of the Ten Commandments.

● Ex 20:1-3 . . And God spoke all these words: I am The Lord your god, who
brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. You shall have no other
gods in my sight.

"in my sight" is a combination of two Hebrew words that essentially refer t
Jehovah's competitors. In other words: it is not God's wishes to have a
market share of His people's devotion; no, He'll settle for nothing less than
100%. (cf. Mark 12:28-30)

● Ex 20:5 . . I, The Lord thy God, am a jealous God

Webster's defines "jealous" as intolerant of rivalry and/or unfaithfulness.

Jacob's uncle Laban was notorious for polytheism. On the one hand, he
recognized Jehovah as a legitimate deity (Gen 24:50, Gen 31:29) while on
the other hand he harbored a collection of patron gods in his home (Gen
31:19, Gen 31:30). In the ancient Semitic world; patron gods were
equivalent to Catholicism's patron saints-- objects of devotion; venerated as
special guardians, intercessors, protectors, and/or supporters; viz: alternate
sources of providence.

Jacob's vow reflects a personal decision of his own volition to make The Lord
the sole source of his providence to the exclusion of all the other gods that
people commonly looked to in his day. So Gen 28:20-21 could be
paraphrased to read like this:

"If God remains with me, if He protects me on this journey that I am
making, and gives me bread to eat and clothing to wear, and if I return safe
to my father’s house-- Jehovah shall be my only patron."

So, although I didn't worship Jesus' mom and the patron saints during the
24 years I was a Catholic from infancy, nevertheless, I practiced polytheism
just like uncle Laban because of my devotion to God's competitors rather
than narrowing the field down to just the one benefactor like Jacob did.

Anyway; that was a very important milestone for Jacob; and it's a very tall
obstacle for John Que and Jane Doe pew warmer to overcome because most
of them feel far more comfortable looking to after-market providers such as
Christ's mom and departed saints rather than looking to God only.

FAQ: What about Rev 5:8 where it talks about the prayers of the saints.
Doesn't that indicate they pray for us?

REPLY: Even if Rev 5:8 did indicate that departed saints pray for people
down here on the earth, it doesn't eo ipso indicate it's okay for people on the
earth to reciprocate with prayers either to them or for them.

However, when that passage in Revelation is read with care, it's easily seen
that the prayers in question are not the active prayers of saints; but rather,
archived prayers.

● Rev 5:8 . . And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the
twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they
were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the
saints.

You see, the bowls in that passage are already full; strongly suggesting that
those particular prayers were prayed in this life; not in the next; and it also
indicates that no new prayers will fit in the bowls because they are already
to capacity.

The details of the prayers in those bowls aren't stated; so it would be purely
conjecture to allege they're intercessory prayers. It's likely the current
prayers of departed saints are for justice and vindication. (e.g. Rev 6:10)
_

 

[Patrick1966]

He is THE Rock of Matt. 16:18.

Abraham is THE Rock of Isa. 50:1-2.

Jesus is THE Rock of Matt. 21:42, Mark 12:10, Luke 20:17, 1 Pet. 2:7, Acts 4:11 and other verses.

I always thought that God/Jesus were THE rocks, foundation, and cornerstone. It's my understanding that Peter IS a rock along with the other disciples.

 

[Patrick1966]

Ephesians 2:20-22 esv

built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by[a] the Spirit.