The Holy Sacrament is Spiritual

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marks

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or have you also walked in Zion
I'm still trying to find this taught in the Bible.

I look to the Bible for defining truth and error, and I have never found this in the Bible. I know we have our experiences, but don't we need to use the Bible to understand them?

What I do find is that we are freed from sin in our rebirth, and then our minds are renewed as we become mature in Christ.

I see passages such as,

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And I believe this is true. I find in my life the fulfilling of His promises, as I am partaking of His nature, and I am escaping from the corruption.

Much love!
 

Episkopos

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It means my status as Gods child has not changed.

Who gave you that status? Yourself? A pastor? There is no status with God.
The inheritance I was given remains mine.

No one receives an inheritance before the time. What you should say is...in HOPE of a future inheritance. Otherwise it sounds like you are inventing things.
all of those things I mentioned ar the most important things we will ever get. It is what gives us security and the means for us growing spiritually.
Not by security,...which is a carnal thing...but by faith and the fear of the Lord.


 
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Episkopos

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I'm still trying to find this taught in the Bible.
You've heard of walking in the Spirit, walking in resurrection life, coming to MT. Zion in the Spirit. You've heard of the full armour of God, the armour of light... Putting on the New Man...putting on Christ. Seated in heavenly places??? Where do you think that is?

All you have to do is put these together...and it adds up to a higher walk according to the high calling to be where Jesus is...in Zion.

People will claim through a religious indoctrination to have what Paul testifies about... but without the same experience.

We begin by being born in Zion. That is the beginning of our faith. Where do you think the finishing is?
 

Eternally Grateful

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Who gave you that status? Yourself? A pastor? There is no status with God.
God did

If you studied the word, you would realise that
No one receives an inheritance before the time. What you should say is...in HOPE of a future inheritance. Otherwise it sounds like you are inventing things.

Not by security,...which is a carnal thing...but by faith and the fear of the Lord.
Thats not hat the word says

Ephesians 1:11
In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will

I recommend you let go and give it all to God.. for only HE can make you right with him
 
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marks

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You've heard of walking in the Spirit,
I have, yes.

Galatians 5:22-26 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Being alive in the Spirit, we are admonished to walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Giving victory over the flesh.

Is walking in the Spirit available to all the born again, in the faith and power we have already received? Or are we lacking something essential, that we must receive before we are able to walk in the Spirit?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

walking in resurrection life,
Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Are we able to walk in that newness of life? Are we not told to reckon ourselves to be actually dead to sin and alive to God?
coming to MT. Zion in the Spirit.
Hebrews 12:18-25 KJV
18) For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19) And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20) (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21) And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake)
22) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Who has come to Mount Zion? Can we tell from the context to whom this passage is addressed?

You've heard of the full armour of God, the armour of light...
Something that all the born again can and should do?

Putting on the New Man...putting on Christ.
Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Same question . . . is this something that all the born again can and should do?

Seated in heavenly places??? Where do you think that is?
The celestial realm.

Ephesians 2:4-7 KJV
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

If you've been made alive in Christ, this applies to you. Doesn't it?

Much love!
 
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Episkopos

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I have, yes.

Galatians 5:22-26 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Being alive in the Spirit, we are admonished to walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Giving victory over the flesh.

Is walking in the Spirit available to all the born again, in the faith and power we have already received? Or are we lacking something essential, that we must receive before we are able to walk in the Spirit?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Are we able to walk in that newness of life? Are we not told to reckon ourselves to be actually dead to sin and alive to God?

Hebrews 12:18-25 KJV
18) For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19) And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20) (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21) And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake)
22) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Who has come to Mount Zion? Can we tell from the context to whom this passage is addressed?


Something that all the born again can and should do?


Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Same question . . . is this something that all the born again can and should do?


The celestial realm.

Ephesians 2:4-7 KJV
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

If you've been made alive in Christ, this applies to you. Doesn't it?

Much love!
It doesn't work by a dogmatic belief. It's not automatic. One has to seek the Lord for it.
 
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marks

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It doesn't work by a dogmatic belief.
As I said before, this isn't just magical thinking, it's a new life in Christ.

Is it "dogmatic belief" to believe the passages that I've posted? To me, this is the power for a new life.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Are we able to do this having been reborn? Or are we waiting for something that we presently lack, some necessary thing?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

True?

Much love!
 

Episkopos

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As I said before, this isn't just magical thinking, it's a new life in Christ.

Is it "dogmatic belief" to believe the passages that I've posted? To me, this is the power for a new life.

If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Are we able to do this having been reborn? Or are we waiting for something that we presently lack, some necessary thing?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

True?

Much love!
keep going... V5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
 

marks

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keep going... V5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
That's what we are to do, yes.

But the rest of my questions to you remain unanswered. It's OK, as you please.

Much love!
 

Episkopos

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That's what we are to do, yes.

But the rest of my questions to you remain unanswered. It's OK, as you please.

Much love!
Again, you are reading yourself into the bible. And if we have been given that sample of grace...we need to move on into Romans 7 and Romans 8. You are stuck in Romans 6...with an initial experience of grace. The Old Man is dead...but the outer religious man is alive and making you do what you don't want to do.

I don't think you realize the power that is available through grace...the whole measure of grace.
 

marks

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Again, you are reading yourself into the bible. And if we have been given that sample of grace...we need to move on into Romans 7 and Romans 8. You are stuck in Romans 6...with an initial experience of grace. The Old Man is dead...but the outer religious man is alive and making you do what you don't want to do.

I don't think you realize the power that is available through grace...the whole measure of grace.
Back to discussing me, rather than addressing the Scriptures. Like I said, it's as you please. You don't have to address anything you don't want to.

Much love!
 
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marksman

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OK marksman. So why did Jesus break bread and give wine and say this is my body and this is my blood. Do it in rememberance of me? Sorry you missed the point of remembering Jesus that way. Perhaps in some other way you will understand what that means.
Jesus did not and would not say that as it meant they would be told to contravene the Jewish Law. It states that you are not to eat human flesh or drink human blood. Jesus, being the perfect son would not have told them to do what the Law forbade.
 

marksman

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Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

That shows that they continued in the breaking of bread and giving the sacrament.
What it shows is that they continued daily to meet for a meal together as in they ate their food with gladness. Not they took communion with gladness.

I am fully aware that your faith is built on ritual invented by man and if that makes you happy go right ahead. For me I would rather investigate the truth and let it lead me into paths of righteousness for His names sake.
 

marks

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I have been showing evidence for a long time but still people question the truth.
1 Corinthians 15:57-58 KJV
57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58) Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Much love!
 

Keturah

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I have, yes.

Galatians 5:22-26 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Being alive in the Spirit, we are admonished to walk in the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16 KJV
16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Giving victory over the flesh.

Is walking in the Spirit available to all the born again, in the faith and power we have already received? Or are we lacking something essential, that we must receive before we are able to walk in the Spirit?

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Are we able to walk in that newness of life? Are we not told to reckon ourselves to be actually dead to sin and alive to God?

Hebrews 12:18-25 KJV
18) For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19) And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20) (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21) And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake)
22) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
25) See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Who has come to Mount Zion? Can we tell from the context to whom this passage is addressed?


Something that all the born again can and should do?


Ephesians 4:22-24 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Same question . . . is this something that all the born again can and should do?


The celestial realm.

Ephesians 2:4-7 KJV
4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

If you've been made alive in Christ, this applies to you. Doesn't it?

Much love!


Too many think they have ATTAINED & BOAST, it appears to be ALL about me, me, me &  none about Christ's saving power, the Spirit's sustaining transforming power nor the  unlimited grace of God!

If what SOME claim as truth is the TRUTH, then there is NO HOPE, we are all doomed for the fire ! I want none of it!

The truth sets free, the truth sanctifies to make the whole vessel of honor, the truth keeps our eyes open & looking to him ".......thy word is TRUTH".

Self proclaiming self righteous mouth pieces are all some are or will ever be. THEIR truth is all they will ever know for they  CHOOSE blindness over looking through the Spirit's lens! They  CHOOSE darkness over light,  leaning on their OWN UNDERSTANDING, rather than humbly submitting to
God !

May we all be prostrate B4 him realizing how insignificant we are and how he is the life force of those who claim to believe & follow him !
 
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Philip James

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John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

I watch online Mass and struggled with the Sacrament always feeling it is thru the spirit that it manifests. And when I read John Chapter 6 it confirmed to me that the bread and wine is symbolic of the body and blood of Christ our Lord. But the sacrement isn't a physical manifestation of our Lord. He blesses us thru the Holy Spirit, the Quickening Spirit to bring us eternal life.

Recomend reading all of John chapter 6. Thoughts?

Hello dev,

It is spiritual food indeed. Jesus is truly manifestly present in the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters have believed and taught for 2000 years..

Here's St, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch circa 100 AD:

But mark ye those who hold strange doctrine
touching the grace of Jesus Christ which came to us,
how that they are contrary to the mind of God. They
have no care for love, none for the widow, none for
the orphan, none for the afflicted, none for the
prisoner, none for the hungry or thirsty. They abstain
from eucharist (thanksgiving) and prayer, because they
allow not that the eucharist is the flesh of our
Saviour Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our
sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans (Lightfoot translation)

Pax et Bonum
 

Eternally Grateful

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Hello dev,

It is spiritual food indeed. Jesus is truly manifestly present in the Eucharist as our brothers and sisters have believed and taught for 2000 years..

Here's St, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch circa 100 AD:

But mark ye those who hold strange doctrine
touching the grace of Jesus Christ which came to us,
how that they are contrary to the mind of God. They
have no care for love, none for the widow, none for
the orphan, none for the afflicted, none for the
prisoner, none for the hungry or thirsty. They abstain
from eucharist (thanksgiving) and prayer, because they
allow not that the eucharist is the flesh of our
Saviour Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our
sins, and which the Father of His goodness raised up.

St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans (Lightfoot translation)

Pax et Bonum
why then does the eucharist not Give what Jesus himself said it would give. why eat the eucharist like the jews ate manna. and still they died?
 
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