What is the one true Church?

[Taken]

It was an honest question.

A serious question and an answer from the funny page.

 

[Ziggy]

Deception.

GASLIGHTING.

Projection.

Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

Twisting the narrative

False Prophet

False Witness

Imagine writing a letter or 2 about yourself except attributing the meaning of the letter onto someone else.
And those that read it believe that you are talking about someone else when you are really talking about yourself.

That's like saying the Democrats accusing the Republicans of wanting to steal an election, even though it was themselves that truly stole it.

Now you have a choice. You can believe the Democrats or you can believe the Republicans.
Problem is you only listen to one side of the story.
So that version of the story is true to you, even though in truth it is not.

How can you tell the difference when the deception is so thick, it can almost decieve the entire world. Universal even.

Ye shall know them by their fruits.

This is directed at no one.
Just thinking out loud.
Hugs

This is an interesting study on being deceptive or bearing false witness.
I didn't know why exactly I wrote this before, ....
Sometimes things just take time to show up.
I hope you enjoy
Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

What does 'Jesus teach you directly' about the Trinity? Enquiring minds want to know!

I would be more interested in what you believe the scriptures teach you about the trinity. Can you do that without referencing the Catechism, the magisterium, or the church 'fathers'?

The Roman Catholic Church is "the" lineage from the Apostles

No, it isn't. At the fall of Jerusalem the church en masse moved from Jerusalem just before it's destruction, settling in Syria and boosting church numbers in Asia minor, Britain, Africa, Arabia, and eventually all the way across the continent to China... All well before the Catholic Church was organized enough to send missionaries anywhere. The church that became universal... Catholic... Found itself as the enemy to Rome when the official "Catholic" Church demanded these churches submit to the Papacy and they refused.

 

[Brakelite]

Because without it the scriptures are going to lead you to an empty religion that is not a reflection of Christ.

Agreed. "To the law and to the testimony. If they do not speak according to this word, there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.
God has established His word, and the holy Spirit gives individuals understanding of it. The Bible today may not be precisely the perfect reproduction some demand, but it is sufficient to lead men to Christ and in Him find salvation and the ways of life.

 

[Brakelite]

openly-challenge you - here in front of all of your fellow Catholic-haters, t provide me with a SINGLE verse of Scripture that condems asking (praying) a fellow human beings a question, request, plea or supplication.

Common sense dictates the futility of talking to dead people. We don't need Bible verses to tell us that dead people are dead and unable to communicate with anyone.

 

[Rita]

Policy Change - Topics On The Trinity Can Now Be Discussed at CyB

Christianity Board has alway prided itself in being a place of scholarly discussion, friendship and an environment where members can grow, learn and share their experiences in Christ. Our team at Cyb have worked hard over the years to ensure that this ethos is maintained and upheld however, we...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Grailhunter]

I would be more interested in what you believe the scriptures teach you about the trinity. Can you do that without referencing the Catechism, the magisterium, or the church 'fathers'?

No, it isn't. At the fall of Jerusalem the church en masse moved from Jerusalem just before it's destruction, settling in Syria and boosting church numbers in Asia minor, Britain, Africa, Arabia, and eventually all the way across the continent to China... All well before the Catholic Church was organized enough to send missionaries anywhere. The church that became universal... Catholic... Found itself as the enemy to Rome when the official "Catholic" Church demanded these churches submit to the Papacy and they refused.

The history of Christian movements after the destruction of the Temple is a little sketchy. Pella seems to be their first settlement, not to say that there were not others. The ventures of various Apostles is another matter of traditional history. As a religion it expanded in all directions which concerned the Romans because the Christians believed in a king. With the Roman army already massed in the area Christians became the hunted.

There is more traditional history than actual history. There were regional Christian Leaders and the Christian leaders in Rome tried to establish their supremacy but they had no real power. Before the Edict of Milan, Regional leaders had more influence than the leaders in Rome and Regional leaders had the authority in their own respective areas, each picking their own favorite Christian texts to form their beliefs.

It was not as much a rejection of the leaders of Rome or considering them as enemies as much as not accepting their authority. Now the letters from some of these Christian leaders (150 to about 270 AD) still exist so if you can find some examples of them hating or considering themselves enemies of the universal church or the Church of Rome you can post them. I do not know of any. Now some of the interpretations of the Book of Revelation (especially modern Protestant interpretations) see it as pointing to the universal Church or the Catholic Church, but these terms do not appear in the Book of Revelation.

To the contrary when Emperor Constantine commanded them to Nicaea there is no indication that any of the regional Bishops refused. Now not all agreed with the decrees of the Ecumenical Councils but actual animosities towards the Roman Catholic Church does not occur until much later, much less terms like enemies. And the office of the Papacy as we understand it does not occur until after the Council at Nicaea. The belief that Christians as a whole rejected the Papacy in Rome is matter of Protestant tradition, not Christian history or academic history. Those few that did reject the Papacy in Rome go down as the heretics, which is a topic in itself.

Then in the Middle Ages when the Church went down the path of atrocities and corruption you see a loss of faith and confidence in the Catholic Church ergo the advent of Martin Luther who intended to reform the Catholic Church.

 

[Grailhunter]

Agreed. "To the law and to the testimony. If they do not speak according to this word, there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20.
God has established His word, and the holy Spirit gives individuals understanding of it. The Bible today may not be precisely the perfect reproduction some demand, but it is sufficient to lead men to Christ and in Him find salvation and the ways of life.

The Bible can lead you to Christ and "the Way" to salvation....but understanding the Spirit of Christ is a separate study, an important study. Because the Bible is an extremely abbreviated account of what went on with little or no background information, being read by people in modern times that have little knowledge of the time period it was written. This is one of the reasons for so many false beliefs.

The individual understanding that come from the Holy Spirit should be in tune with the Christian scriptures as understood through the Spirit of Christ. Individual understands that is said to come from the Holy Spirit is probably one of the reasons for the thousands of denominations we have today that say they got their inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Grailhunter]

Common sense dictates the futility of talking to dead people. We don't need Bible verses to tell us that dead people are dead and unable to communicate with anyone.

I understand the Protestant believe that you cannot talk to people that have died.
And I understand it is not a well defined topic....
But you tell me how many people in the Bible that talked to people that had died.
Now praying to them is a different topic.

 

[MissKate13]

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us...” — John 17:20, 21

It is often asked, “What is the right denomination?” There are hundreds, if not thousands of denominations all claiming to be this one true church, but does God recognize any of these as His representative on earth? This subject should be approached prayerfully and honestly. If there was but one church in the beginning, established by our Lord, there should be but the one church in the end — the church triumphant in glory. Colossians 3:4

The word church was first used in the New Testament and is a translation of the Greek word ekklesia, which means a calling out. Jesus said to his disciples, “I have chosen you out of the world.” (John 15:19) The true church is a company of believers who, in accepting the invitation of Christ, have become sanctified or separated from the world, worldly pursuits and worldly organizations.

Those of the early church bore no denominational names, but were simply identified by their location. “Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, …sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints…” (1 Corinthians 1:2) These sanctified individuals in various communities set themselves apart from the world and dedicate their lives to God through the merit of His Son. Thus, the true church is not a place to go to, nor is it a denomination to belong to. The church is the gathering of sincere believers. Paul emphasized this when he confirmed that Jesus’ followers were baptized only into Christ and not into an earthly organization. There is but one baptism, and that is into Christ. Thus, it is a misconception that one joins or is baptized into a particular church denomination. Ephesians 4:4-6; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3, 4

Excellent post! You are spot on.

 

[rockytopva]

One true church…. Hmmm…. Wouldn’t that be the Orthodox? The came along before the Catholic Church you know. And would that’s not make the Catholic Church the first Protestants?

 

[Illuminator]

It was an honest question.

I appreciate honest questions. There are short answers and long answers, enough to fill several pages. I have been looking for one of reasonable length suitable for this board, sorry it's taken so long to reply. So my answer to your question is followed by links if you wish to plow through a lot of text.

As the Church reflects on the second coming of Jesus Christ during the final weeks of Ordinary Time and into the first few weeks of Advent, the topic of the “Antichrist” will inevitably come to the surface.

It is a teaching of the Catholic Church that is highly mysterious, and biblical references do not shed much light on the situation.

Yet, the Church has an official teaching on the Antichrist, explained in detail in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

A final deception​

Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.
CCC 675

As with all aspects of Jesus’ second coming, every age has thought they were living in the “last days.”

St. Thomas Aquinas points out in his Summa Theologiae that the early Christians thought they were living in the “end times” and that the Antichrist was near, if not already there in the form of the Roman Emperors.

t is impossible to fix what amount of such calamities will immediately precede the judgment day or the coming of Antichrist, since even at the time of the Early Church persecutions were so bitter, and the corruptions of error were so numerous, that some looked forward to the coming of Antichrist as being near or imminent.

This is why the Church even mentions that the Antichrist’s deception has been active since the first coming of Christ.

The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.

As with the final days of this world, we won’t know for certain whether or not the Antichrist is present in the world. In many ways he has already come and has been with us for centuries.

Throughout this final trial of faith, the key is to stay closely united to Jesus Christ, not wavering in our belief, but trusting that he will lead us to our final home. We may never know who the Antichrist will be, but we do know Jesus Christ and can follow him.

That's my short answer to your question. There is little point in flooding the thread with long boring pages that most people would scroll past. So I will provide you with some great links that go into more detail.

These exposes the lies of Dave Hunt and his book "A Woman Rides the Beast" that sold millions of copies:

Hunt-ing the Whore of Babylon: Part I

Anti-Catholic writer Dave Hunt is at it again. Large portions of his previous books have been devoted to attacking the Catholic Church. Now he has written an en...

www.catholic.com

Hunt-ing the Whore of Babylon: Part II

Dave Hunt’s earlier books seem to be divided into two categories: those against the New Age movement and those blaming the New Age movement on the Catholi...

www.catholic.com

How to Defeat the Antichrist

Not Just Antichrist—Antichrists!

The Church really does believe in the coming of an apocalyptic character called 'Antichrist.' Not only that, but there are more than one.

www.catholic.com

Search | Catholic Answers

www.catholic.com

Please, ask more sincere questions.

 

[Illuminator]

One true church…. Hmmm…. Wouldn’t that be the Orthodox? The came along before the Catholic Church you know. And would that’s not make the Catholic Church the first Protestants?

Both East and West acknowledge wrongdoing in the tragic events leading up to 1054 when the schism finalized. Nevertheless, it is undeniably true that the West (and especially the Roman See) had a much more solid and consistent record of orthodoxy. For example, the Eastern Church split off from Rome and the Catholic Church on at least six occasions before 1054:

• The Arian schisms (343-398)
• The controversy over St. John Chrysostom (404-415)
• The Acacian schism (484-519)
• Concerning Monothelitism (640-681)
• Concerning Iconoclasm (726-787 and 815-843)

This adds up to 231 out of 500 years in schism (46% of the time)! In every case, Rome was on the right side of the debate in terms of what was later considered “orthodox” by both sides. Thus, the East clearly needed the West and the papacy and Rome in order to be ushered back to orthodoxy.

The Roman See, with its bishop, the pope, was the supreme arbiter of orthodoxy in the Church universal in the early centuries. There is abundant historical evidence for this, but suffice it to say that even many of the East’s most revered Church fathers and Patriarchs sought refuge in Rome (theologically and/or geographically), for example:

• St. Athanasius (339 to 342),
• St. Basil the Great (371),
• St. John Chrysostom (404),
• St. Cyril of Jerusalem (430), and
• St. Flavian of Constantinople (449).

The East all too frequently treated its greatest figures much like the ancient Jews did their prophets, often expelling and exiling them, while Rome welcomed them and restored them to office by the authority of papal or conciliar decree.

Many of these venerable saints (particularly St. John Chysostom), and other Eastern saints such as (most notably) St. Ephraim, St. Maximus the Confessor, and St. Theodore of Studios, also explicitly affirmed papal supremacy. The popes functioned as the “supreme court” of the Church, and they presided over (personally or through papal legates) and ratified the Ecumenical Councils of the Church. One may argue that this was mere custom or a particularly “pragmatic,” “governmental” aspect of the primacy of honor, but whatever view one takes, the historical facts of the papacy as “final court of appeal” are undeniable.

Roman See As Historic Standard-Bearer Of Orthodoxy

A minority of [anti-Catholic] Orthodox Christians believe that the Catholic Church & Roman See departed from the Christian Church in 1054, & lost apostolicity, sacraments, & graces.

www.patheos.com

Thus, the argument that the orthodox church came first falls apart in a heap.

 

[Jim B]

According the the apostles themselves they said to flee men who teach falsehoods .
There are and still is a remnant who have not bowed the knee to the error or ROME
nor the errors within the protestant realm either . Unity with those who love and follow CHRIST
not unity with those who seduce and teach falsehoods .
And i have real bad news they are all over the protestant realm big time .
And Rome has long been in dire trouble .
A call to unify with THOSE who truly love CHRIST in sincerity , not with false teachers of the blind
who have long ago crept into many places and have taken many men and women captive to lies
and now to the grand lie which will gather them all , as well as even the other false religions
as well as even secular folks . The delusion to unify the world , faiths within christendom and the religions
has grown huge now . EVER wonder why GOD said dont be unequally yoked .
CAUSE IF YOU ARE YOU WILL FALL . THIS IS WHY churches are falling faster and faster for lies and for the grand lie .
the LIE of the great delusion the very mystery of inquity which has long been at work
has now morphed huge under the umbrella that it is light , love , unity and of GOD . WHEN ITS NONE OF THAT at all .
IF folks get unequally yoked up in churches of false leaders under the false unity , THEY GONNA FALL .
GOD says everything for a reason . TO KEEP US SAFE and GROWING . we better heed and learn the doctrine .

Oy! Here we go again! More of your prideful condemnation of the body of Christ. You're a wolf among the sheep!

 

[Jim B]

my advice to you is BEWARE the JUDGMENT OF GOD upon those who fail to warn the people
and just allow them to sit under any false leader . GO read revelation and learn a bit my friend .
DOCTRINE MATTERS and so does allowing a false one to teach . GOD was angry at that church
for even allowing , ALLOWING a false one to teach and to seduce the people .

So, stop your heretical, false teaching! Again and again, you set yourself up as some "prophet", but it's only in your own mind. What you repeat over and over and over ad nauseum sounds ridiculous. You judge and condemn your sisters and brothers in Christ, who worship and praise their Lord and Savior. Apparently that isn't good enough for you. It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for you to accept who you really are: a false "prophet" who constantly judges and condemns those who belong to Jesus Christ.

 

[Ziggy]

I appreciate honest questions. There are short answers and long answers, enough to fill several pages. I have been looking for one of reasonable length suitable for this board, sorry it's taken so long to reply. So my answer to your question is followed by links if you wish to plow through a lot of text.

s the Church reflects on the second coming of Jesus Christ during the final weeks of Ordinary Time and into the first few weeks of Advent, the topic of the “Antichrist” will inevitably come to the surface.

It is a teaching of the Catholic Church that is highly mysterious, and biblical references do not shed much light on the situation.

Yet, the Church has an official teaching on the Antichrist, explained in detail in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

A final deception​

As with all aspects of Jesus’ second coming, every age has thought they were living in the “last days.”

St. Thomas Aquinas points out in his Summa Theologiae that the early Christians thought they were living in the “end times” and that the Antichrist was near, if not already there in the form of the Roman Emperors.




This is why the Church even mentions that the Antichrist’s deception has been active since the first coming of Christ.


As with the final days of this world, we won’t know for certain whether or not the Antichrist is present in the world. In many ways he has already come and has been with us for centuries.

Throughout this final trial of faith, the key is to stay closely united to Jesus Christ, not wavering in our belief, but trusting that he will lead us to our final home. We may never know who the Antichrist will be, but we do know Jesus Christ and can follow him.

That's my short answer to your question. There is little point in flooding the thread with long boring pages that most people would scroll past. So I will provide you with some great links that go into more detail.

These exposes the lies of Dave Hunt and his book "A Woman Rides the Beast" that sold millions of copies:

Hunt-ing the Whore of Babylon: Part I

Anti-Catholic writer Dave Hunt is at it again. Large portions of his previous books have been devoted to attacking the Catholic Church. Now he has written an en...

www.catholic.com

Hunt-ing the Whore of Babylon: Part II

Dave Hunt’s earlier books seem to be divided into two categories: those against the New Age movement and those blaming the New Age movement on the Catholi...

www.catholic.com

How to Defeat the Antichrist

Not Just Antichrist—Antichrists!

The Church really does believe in the coming of an apocalyptic character called 'Antichrist.' Not only that, but there are more than one.

www.catholic.com

Search | Catholic Answers

www.catholic.com

Please, ask more sincere questions.

Thank You for sharing
Hugs

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Regarding the sheep that his Father gave him as per John 10:27-29, Jesus
stated:

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch
them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than
all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." (John 10:28-29)

It has actually been posited that the sheep are an exception. In other words;
it's been posited that the sheep of their own free will can take themselves
out of Jesus' hand. But of course they can't because God's free will trumps
the sheep's free will.

"This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose anything of
what He gave me." (John 6:39)

The posit reveals a belief that the sheep have enough strength and cunning
to overpower their shepherd and run off.

Were the good shepherd an ordinary guy, then I would be inclined to agree
with the posit that his sheep might get past him and run off. But Christ has
all the powers of God at his disposal to keep the sheep right where he wants
them. He displayed a sampling of those powers by means of the variety of
miracles he performed when he was here.

Surely no one in a right mind would dare to suggest that sheep have
sufficient powers and abilities of their own at their disposal to overcome
Christ. Were that the case, the sheep would have no need of his services;
the sheep could shepherd themselves.

But even were the sheep to somehow manage to escape their shepherd's
hand, they would still have his Father's hand to contend with; and good luck
getting away from Almighty God!

Now, seeing as how the good shepherd has all the powers of the supreme
being at his disposal to keep the sheep right where he wants them, then it
shouldn't take too much more to persuade the sheep that it's okay to fully
trust in this next statement of his.

"I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved." (John 10:9)

Were Christ a so-so shepherd; then he wouldn't dare say "will be" saved;
no, he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That would leave
him some room for error. But when Christ says "will be" he's claiming a
0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose nothing of
what his Father has given him.
_

 

[BreadOfLife]

I never said a human being is condemned for asking a fellow human being a question, etc.
Keep waiting because I will not answer what I did not say!

Spiritual context...pray FOR others...pray TO the Lord God.
Secular context...have a piece of meat...

YOU made the following claim:
"Scripture teaches AGAINST PRAYING TO “created” spirits, PRAYING TO dead men...FOR ANY REASON!"

I challenged you to provide even a SINGLE verse of Scripture to support this idiotic claim. I even included the dictionary definition of the word "Pray" and showed you that the primary definition simply means to "ASK".
I also inclided sa verse from the KJV (Acts 27:34 -), illustrating the use of this word as such.

Soi far, you have nervously danced around it - but you have NOT addressed my challenge.
WHERE does Scripture forbid ASKING a created beiing a question??
WHERE does Scripture forbid ASKING a created beiing a question for "ANY" readon??

If you can't come up with any Scriptural support for this manure - then simply admit it and we can move on . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fellow Catholic haters.....

Catholics are a “group” of People....I don’t even know ALL Catholics, to claim I hate ALL Catholics.

OH...but, but, but....who needs to speak for themselves with YOU HERE TO do everyone’s thinking and speaking for them....Gaslighter!

IF you stopped thinking yourself SO IMPORTANT, and ACTUALLY PAID attention, It is Catholic Doctrine that is in dispute and NOT favorable to people who CHOOSE not to be associated with the CATHOLIC “group” and CATHOLIC teaching.

Not rocket science.

When somebody expends so much time and energy LYNG about a groups of people, it's a fair assumption that they hate that group.

As Hitler's minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels posited:
"If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth."

YOUR problem, however, is that I'M here to expose you . . .

 

[rockytopva]

I believe the true church is made up of many congregations... In which we all have our issues. I would not want to recommend a congregation these days without knowing the senior pastor...

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
Angels - The current preacher to the congregation.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

We don't know the classifications as we are not worthy to look into the Lamb's Book of Life... But pertaining to the seven congregations....

1. The Messianic have issues
2. Few issues in the times of the Roman persecutions, in which the Foxes book of Martyrs has as ten.
3. The Orthodox have issues
4. The Catholic have issues
5. The Protestant have issues
6. The Church that arose out of England have issues
7. The Church that arose out of America has issues

We all have issues. And reminding everyone of The Council of Trent (1545-1564) in which placed the Bible on its list of prohibited books, and forbade any person to read the Bible without a license from a Roman Catholic bishop or inquisitor. The Council added these words: "That if any one shall dare to read or keep in his possession that book, without such a license, he shall not receive absolution till he has given it up to his ordinary."