What does it mean to be born again?

[amigo de christo]

Why does everything have to devolve into personal attacks? Let's get back to simply discussing what is in Scripture, and how false teachers like Episkopos constantly attack the truth. Since you are a fan of his, kindly tell us what true Bible doctrine he actually adheres to. Spell it out, since almost every one of his posts is spiritual nonsense.

 

[amigo de christo]

Rather odd indeed . the last time i checked light and darkness dont exist together
one cannot sit and the table of belial and Christ .
Yet this generation seems to think IT CAN COEXIST together at one big happy all inclusive we are on unity table .
VERY BRAOD road this grace has led them into . VERY broad path this love so called has led them into .
I wonder how long its gonna take folks to realize that satan knows HOW to use words TOO .

 

[Lizbeth]

Okay, well it was me stating that there are some very wrong teachings and leaven regarding judgement and how the missing key comes into play regarding it that you asked about. I had previously also said there was a lot about Gods judgement you had not yet seen and that He was MORE merciful and right than men teach.

God will have to help us here because it is such a tangled mess men have made that there is no other way for us to escape the judgement their mess will bring on us than if He is merciful and helps us here.

8 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.2 And early in the morning He came again into the temple area, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and beganteaching them. 3 Now the scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in the act of adultery, and after placing her in the center of the courtyard, 4 they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6 Now they were saying this to test Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 When they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Now when they heard this, they began leaving, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman where she was, in the center of the courtyard. 10 And straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, [a]Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on do not sin any longer.”]]

Verse 6, They were trying to find grounds to accuse Jesus. That was their goal, to catch Him breaking the law.
We’ve all heard this taught on and don’t need to bring up and regurgitate all we’ve heard men say about it.
But why do you think the Pharisees left and wouldn’t throw the first stone yet Christian’s will judge men that they are going to be cast into fire? Why did the Pharisees refuse to judge and condemn and begin the stoning process and why do Christian’s have no qualms about pronouncing judgement of eternal fire on people. And why did let he without sin throw the first stone shut up the Pharisees but it doesn’t shut up Christian’s even though we were also told to not judge anything before the time, to not judge those outside, that we will be judged in the same manner that we judge, that if we don’t forgive we will also not be forgiven, that with the merciful He shows Himself merciful and many other verses too.
So how have we become convinced that judging someone worthy of the second death is safe for us and acceptable? If we didn’t embrace a doctrine that says we are as righteous and holy as Jesus, even while we sin, would we then feel loathe to make the judgement that we do on unbelievers?

Could a case be made that Christian’s today are WORSE than those Pharisees…?

Agree that it's not for us to judge sinners.

But the bible warns and states in many places that God will judge them one day. If God does not hide these unpleasant facts, shouldn't we likewise share that warning (when appropriate) in case some might heed it and receive the gospel, or should we hide the truth from people who need it...? Sharing or teaching what God tells us in His word is not synonymous with judging. (Some may be judgmental and condemning, yes, but it doesn't follow that everyone is being like that, nor does it alter what God says in His word about wrath and judgment.)

 

[Cassandra]

Okay, well it was me stating that there are some very wrong teachings and leaven regarding judgement and how the missing key comes into play regarding it that you asked about. I had previously also said there was a lot about Gods judgement you had not yet seen and that He was MORE merciful and right than men teach.

God will have to help us here because it is such a tangled mess men have made that there is no other way for us to escape the judgement their mess will bring on us than if He is merciful and helps us here.

8 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.2 And early in the morning He came again into the temple area, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and beganteaching them. 3 Now the scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in the act of adultery, and after placing her in the center of the courtyard, 4 they *said to Him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the very act of committing adultery. 5 Now in the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6 Now they were saying this to test Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 When they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Now when they heard this, they began leaving, one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman where she was, in the center of the courtyard. 10 And straightening up, Jesus said to her, “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one, [a]Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on do not sin any longer.”]]

Verse 6, They were trying to find grounds to accuse Jesus. That was their goal, to catch Him breaking the law.
We’ve all heard this taught on and don’t need to bring up and regurgitate all we’ve heard men say about it.
But why do you think the Pharisees left and wouldn’t throw the first stone yet Christian’s will judge men that they are going to be cast into fire? Why did the Pharisees refuse to judge and condemn and begin the stoning process and why do Christian’s have no qualms about pronouncing judgement of eternal fire on people. And why did let he without sin throw the first stone shut up the Pharisees but it doesn’t shut up Christian’s even though we were also told to not judge anything before the time, to not judge those outside, that we will be judged in the same manner that we judge, that if we don’t forgive we will also not be forgiven, that with the merciful He shows Himself merciful and many other verses too.
So how have we become convinced that judging someone worthy of the second death is safe for us and acceptable? If we didn’t embrace a doctrine that says we are as righteous and holy as Jesus, even while we sin, would we then feel loathe to make the judgement that we do on unbelievers?

Could a case be made that Christian’s today are WORSE than those Pharisees…?

Wasn't it that Jesus was writing the sins of them in the ground? They saw their sins and did no longer accuse. We cannot see the sins of those who condemn these days. We need to be very careful condemning people--we need to search our hearts.
Matt 7:3 "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

[Lizbeth]

We also can look at the parable about the man whose debt was forgiven who then went out and demanded of another rather than forgiving as he had been. He will be thrown into some type of prison for this and will not be released until he pays his debt, which was reinstated after what he did.

Sure we need to be forgiving, amen. But forgiving doesn't nullify anything about what God says regarding His wrath and judgment when the time of His longsuffering comes to an end. (It's not our wrath or judgment....but His.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Cute video, with a serious message. :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

if anyone here is following such concepts as has been portrayed in this lil video skit , My advice is FLEE THEM and fast .
THIS IS HOW the dragon has been transforming the churches into His own image .
preaching a grace that does and allows all this stuff . As i said a while back i am seriously SHOCKED , STUNNED
by what the churches are calling grace these days . Watcher beware for this type of stuff IS all over christendom .
Take a good peek at some of those shirts that lady is wearing . CAUSE ITS HOW THEY GOT IT ALL INTO THE CHURCHES .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Rather odd indeed . the last time i checked light and darkness dont exist together
one cannot sit and the table of belial and Christ .
Yet this generation seems to think IT CAN COEXIST together at one big happy all inclusive we are on unity table .
VERY BRAOD road this grace has led them into . VERY broad path this love so called has led them into .
I wonder how long its gonna take folks to realize that satan knows HOW to use words TOO .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Why does everything have to devolve into personal attacks? Let's get back to simply discussing what is in Scripture, and how false teachers like Episkopos constantly attack the truth. Since you are a fan of his, kindly tell us what true Bible doctrine he actually adheres to. Spell it out, since almost every one of his posts is spiritual nonsense.

 

[Lizbeth]

:) Awww, poor gopher. Leave the little feller alone!

 

[Enoch111]

No wonder you are as confused as Episkopos. You could not give me a straight answer, so you resorted to a personal attack.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No wonder you are as confused as Episkopos. You could not give me a straight answer, so you resorted to a personal attack.

You came in to once again personally attack Epi. You tear down and do nothing to build anyone up. Then you accuse me of doing what you did. Your nonsense was answered with nonsense.

 

[Lizbeth]

No wonder you are as confused as Episkopos. You could not give me a straight answer, so you resorted to a personal attack.

Unfortunately that seems to be a way of life around here. And see how upset even the poor gophers are about all the confusion that gets spouted! ;) Makes me want to scream sometimes.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Unfortunately that seems to be a way of life around here. And see how upset even the poor gophers are about all the confusion that gets spouted! ;) Makes me want to scream sometimes.

 

[Lizbeth]

Rather odd indeed . the last time i checked light and darkness dont exist together
one cannot sit and the table of belial and Christ .
Yet this generation seems to think IT CAN COEXIST together at one big happy all inclusive we are on unity table .
VERY BRAOD road this grace has led them into . VERY broad path this love so called has led them into .
I wonder how long its gonna take folks to realize that satan knows HOW to use words TOO .

Human sympathies, human emotions, human ways are not God's ways. There is a way that seemeth right to a man but leads to death. The Coexist and Ecumenical movement is a way that seemeth right to men and it's based on self-righteousness, man's own righteousness, not the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Lizbeth]

Tut-tut.....temper, temper!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Tut-tut.....temper, temper!

Tut-tut…….ridiculous, ridiculous!

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you mean to ask if having A firm grasp on righteousness vs. holiness is what being weaned from the flesh is? If that’s what you’re asking, no. Being weaned, as when David says, ”my soul is like a weaned child within me,” is having your passions calmed. At first, when it happened, I thought it must be that my flesh had died finally, and it was not like I could go read some books about it because I’d never once heard anyone teach about such a thing. So amid great amazement, I tried to understand what the heck had just happened to me. And, as is most usually the case with us, my first assumption was that I was further than I actually was. And God gave me David’s verse to show me, along with what I call “first motions towards.” While it was shocking to quite suddenly not have my passions rule over me any more (which I can talk about in greater detail if you would like) after a while I began to see those first motions towards, which are like…temptations, or small tugs, towards the accustomed habit of being ruled by my passions. So I saw that if there were even so much as first motions towards, then there was still some flesh remaining alive somewhere in me. But it’s a small nag, or vague annoyance, and I have been always able to firmly say - absolutely not, you will shut up. Because of the indescribable peace and calm, I guard this like a hawk and allow it to go no further than a whisper or tug. It’s like…He put the enemy of my flesh/passions under my boot and I don’t dare take my foot off the neck of that enemy or I am convinced all would be lost of what I have gained.

I think another way to try to convey it would be to say God put my flesh in subjection to His Spirit in me. And I can’t explain much past this because that’s where I am but I vaguely see that…there is still something deeper, and of longseated habit, that still needs to be subjected to His Spirit. It’s like…the difference between removing a fresh stain versus trying to remove a stain more deeply set into fabric. But like I said, I can’t really explain it much more past that yet.

Just want to mention, that we musn't assume that receiving victory over one area, doesn't mean there aren't other areas of the flesh that need to be put under His feet. We are going from glory to glory and God told the Israelites that they would be taking ground little by little. God answered your prayers and seeking for this one, but often we may have problem areas that we aren't aware of yet, and until the Lord reveals them to us we don't pray and seek for those things.

 

[quietthinker]

For years Romans 6 has been at or near the top of my hit parade of verses that strengthen and encourage my faith.
Marks had been hitting the nail squarely on the head when using Romans 6 to describe the Christian walk. We are crucified in Christ. I think Epi confuses things a little by referring to the inner and outer man. I prefer the old man which is dead in Christ, and the new man which is raised with Him. We have faith in God's word that what he declares to be true, then it is true, whether we see it using our physical eyes or not. We don't live by sight. We walk in the spirit and believe that if God says it, it's done. The old fleshly carnal nature is dead. The old man of sin and selfishness and lust and covetousness and pleasure seeking, is DEAD.
Praise God for that, and the evidence I have for that is a changed life, a life that is even daily getting better, so long as I feed from the Vine, remaining in connection to the only source of grace and power. And praise God also that it isn't up to me to retain that relationship, but to trust Him to do that. The only thing that can destroy our future together is a firm irrevocable decision on my part to walk away, to break off the relationship of my own accord. And believe me, that for any of us will take some doing. And God Himself will be wooing us back to Him with relentless and furious love. Butt Romans 6. It spells the glorious promise that we at this moment have power over sin, and power to overcome all that opposes and exalts itself against God. Born again. Raised with Him. And again as marks pointed out,
KJV 2 Peter 1:3-4
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What God passes us from and what we pass ourselves from are not reconciled/ viewed accurately in our fleshly existence except by faith.
Faith, as I understand it, means trusting God's judgement on matters of life rather than my own.

God forgives. He views humanity as forgiven not because of a legal transaction but because he loves.
Forgiveness is not a legal transaction. Forgiveness is an emotional response/ choice to love.
Jesus didn't hang on a cross because it was legally required of him. He hung there because he would rather die than kill, he hung there because of what he felt for humanity. This is revealed in his prayer for his executioners.

Paul calls himself the chief of sinners because in his own spiritual eyes as they were progressively opened to the gob smacking kindness shown him, he saw the contrast between how God sees and how he sees himself.

There is this traditional view that God will not/ can not approach sin/ sinners. I find from the outset the scripture tells the story of God looking for the sinner, searching him out. It is the sinner who has lost the perspective of his worth and this is reinforced by the Serpent's voices in our heads saying run and hide...cover up....you're not good enough anyway. (who told you you were naked?....God)

It is the sinner who will not approach God.....except his heart be melted and continues to be melted.

---

When Jesus appears the second time on his rescue mission for people whose hearts have 'melted'; those whose hearts have not melted would rather run/ hide and die than face the lamb. We read the account/ story in Revelation 6:12-17 ....they perceive him to be wrathful.......yet whoever has known a lamb to be wrathful?

Jacob was defeated by his assailant in the night; his strength vaporised, yet he clung to the hope of mercy for all he was worth......herein he prevailed.

 

[marks]

x. The wrong Tree glorifies flesh and MAN, the other Tree glorifies JESUS.

Two completely different ways of living, one according to the knowlede of good and evil - the law of sin and death, the other according to life - the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

Much love!