Abortion

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Do you believe someone can be Christian and support / defend aborting millions of unborn babies?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 10.7%
  • No

    Votes: 25 89.3%

  • Total voters
    28

Jack

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This has been a very revealing topic. We have learned the main reasons for abortion:
1. Women have their babies killed to save their own lives.
2. Birth control for promiscuous people, including taking young girls to get abortions and not notifying their parents
3. Making the medical industry, Planned Parenthood and Dems filthy rich. PPH recently donated nearly $100 MILLION to the Dem Party in 2 years.

They must make an ocean of $$$ on abortions to donate $100 million to the Dem Party. No wonder they fight like the Devil for abortion!
 
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Naomanos

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This has been a very revealing topic. We have learned the main reasons for abortion:
1. Women kill their babies to save their own lives.
2. Birth control for promiscuous people, including taking young girls to get abortions and not notifying their parents
3. Making the medical industry, Planned Parenthood and Dems filthy rich. PPH recently donated nearly $100 MILLION to the Dem Party in 2 years.

You are seriously removed from reality!

You are advocating that women die when they have a pregnancy that is going to kill them. Don't deny that this what you want as your posts reveal that very thing. It doesn't matter to you that by having an abortion it will save one life, as long as she doesn't choose abortion and dies along with the fetus. Thatbis the outcome if women did the opposite of this:

"1. Women kill their babies to save their own lives."

Hospitals don't perform abortions to save the mother's life to make money off of it, they do it to save the mother's life. Period. End of story.
 

Naomanos

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The principle of double effect solves the ectopic problem.

The principle of double effect applies:
(1) Your intention is to perform a good—to save the mother’s life by removing her cancerous uterus. The evil effect of causing the death of the baby is not desired. It is a very sad and unfortunate result of the good act.
(2) The evil effect does not cause the good result. You are removing a diseased organ that is killing the mother, not performing an abortion. The baby will die during or shortly after the operation, but the purpose of the operation is not to kill the child.
(3) Two very grave matters must be weighed against each other. Saving one person is better than allowing both to die through inaction, even though it means the death of one.

The Mother’s (Insert Here) Health​

The criteria used to determine that this rare choice is morally acceptable are the same criteria that tell us that abortions for “the health of the mother” are immoral. If an abortion is performed to preserve a less-than-life-threatening aspect of the mother’s health, it is simply wrong, by all three criteria of the moral principle of double effect.

Although the intention is ostensibly to preserve the health of the mother, all too often the mother’s mental or emotional health—even financial or social health—is invoked to justify the act. In some cases, the doctor may foresee problems arising in a pregnancy that would put the mother at risk.

But regardless of the reason cited, the action taken is the abortion of the child, and the direct intention of that act is death. When an abortion is performed to “preserve the health of the mother,” the abortion is the cause of any perceived benefit to the mother. In other words, an evil is being done to pursue a supposed good, and this is never morally licit. Finally, we must weigh the moral gravity: A grave evil is being done—the direct and intentional killing of an innocent person—to achieve a lesser good. Whether the intended benefit to the mother’s health is small or great, actual or contrived, “good health” can never equal life itself. Abortions performed “for the health of the mother” fail the test on all three counts.

Actual cases where a decision must be made between the mother’s life and the baby’s are rare, but they do occur, and there is always a moral response. Morally mature, ethical doctors are equipped to handle these difficult situations in the rare instances that they arise.

Legislation to regulate these rare occurrences has opened the door to abortion on demand. Statistics bear this out. The National Right to Life Committee reports that 93 percent of abortions are performed for “social reasons,” while the mother’s health is cited in only 3 percent of the cases. (In another 3 percent the baby’s health is cited, and 1 percent cites rape or incest.) “Saving the life of the mother” never came up in the report (www.nrlc.org/abortion/facts/reasonsabortions.html).

The principle is simple: The direct killing of an innocent life is a grave evil and is never allowed, but when the mother’s life is in danger, medical ethics have always recognized the principle of double effect. And so has the Catholic Church, which has long protected the life of the mother. In 1907, long before abortion on demand was legal through most of the Western world, the Catholic Encyclopedia included this statement in its article on abortion:

All this I agree with!
 

Jack

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You are seriously removed from reality!

You are advocating that women die when they have a pregnancy that is going to kill them. Don't deny that this what you want as your posts reveal that very thing. It doesn't matter to you that by having an abortion it will save one life, as long as she doesn't choose abortion and dies along with the fetus. Thatbis the outcome if women did the opposite of this:

"1. Women kill their babies to save their own lives."

Hospitals don't perform abortions to save the mother's life to make money off of it, they do it to save the mother's life. Period. End of story.
This is a Christian forum. Christians don't have their babies killed to save their own lives.
 

Naomanos

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This is a Christian forum. Christians don't have their babies killed to save their own lives.

I am a Christian, and yes, Christians do.

So you do advocate that women die along with the fetus when the fetus us killing her.
 

Jack

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I am a Christian, and yes, Christians do.

So you do advocate that women die along with the fetus when the fetus us killing her.
The fetus is killing her? Please stop telling that lie that I want women to die! The abortion industry is quite lucrative and political! $$$
 

Naomanos

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The fetus is killing her? Please stop telling that lie that I want women to die! The abortion industry is quite lucrative and political! $$$

Yes, there are instances where the fetus is killing her and she has to make the choice tonsave her life or die with the fetus.

I have told no lies about you and have quoted what you said in a reply above. So do not try to say that you haven't.
 

Jack

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Well let's see, should a Christian kill her baby and possibly burn in Hell "forever and ever", or would she be better off dying and be with Jesus forever?

Luke 17
2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
 

Jack

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I have told no lies about you and have quoted what you said in a reply above. So do not try to say that you haven't.
You have implied several times that I want women to die! That's a BIG lie!
 

Naomanos

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Well let's see, should a Christian kill her baby and possibly burn in Hell "forever and ever", or would she be better off dying and be with Jesus forever?

See, your words right betray you. You think they should die instead of having an abortion that would save their lives.
 

Jack

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See, your words right betray you. You think they should die instead of having an abortion that would save their lives.
You didn't answer the questions.

Should a Christian kill her baby and possibly burn in Hell "forever and ever", or would she be better off dying and be with Jesus forever?
 

Naomanos

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You didn't answer the questions.

Should a Christian kill her baby and possibly burn in Hell "forever and ever", or would she be better off dying and be with Jesus forever?

She won't burn in hell. She may have other children that she needs to think about.

Should her other children be motherless when her death could have been prevented?
 

Jack

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She won't burn in hell.
For killing her baby? You can't prove that whatsoever.
She may have other children that she needs to think about.

Should her other children be motherless when her death could have been prevented?
So you are advising women to risk burning in Hell "forever and ever" rather than themselves dying and being with Jesus forever. You are responsible for anyone who takes your advice. Very risky indeed! Women can choose. Babies cannot.

Matthew 18
6 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
 

Naomanos

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For killing her baby? You can't prove that whatsoever.

Jesus is merciful and just because you think he may throw someone in hell for choosing her life over that of the fetus that will die anyway taking her with it, doesn't mean He will. He has more mercy than us humans can ever fathom!

You are responsible for anyone who takes your advice. Very risky indeed!

I will take my chances. Especially, since I have prayed about this very thing and got peace about it from God.

The woman is not killing the fetus maliciously. She is doing it because if she doesn't, than they both die. She is doing it because she may have other family to think about caring for.

Jesus has mercy. I will take my chances.
 

Jack

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Jesus is merciful and just because you think he may throw someone in hell for choosing her life over that of the fetus that will die anyway taking her with it, doesn't mean He will. He has more mercy than us humans can ever fathom!
He sure is merciful to those who repent. Women have the choice to repent or kill their babies.
I will take my chances. Especially, since I have prayed about this very thing and got peace about it from God.

The woman is not killing the fetus maliciously. She is doing it because if she doesn't, than they both die. She is doing it because she may have other family to think about caring for.

Jesus has mercy. I will take my chances.
Left wing propaganda! Abortion has been a HUGE Cash Cow for the Left. If they cared about women they would tell them to repent or burn in Hell.
 

Naomanos

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Women have the choice to repent or kill their babies.

I'll take Jesus being merciful when you're not every single time!

Left wing propaganda!


Not at all. I would suggest do some real research and/or visit a hospital and see for yourself. Not all pregnancies are viable pregnancies and sometimes the fetus will start killing the mother. That is not propaganda and is straight fact. Facts that you would know if you actually knew one iota about this subject.
 

Naomanos

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I haven't wanted to say this because it is still painful, but a friend of mine had to go through this exact thing. The fetus was killing her, so it was her life or both lives. She chose to live because she had other children to care for.

I have had female donors that had abortions because the pregnancy was killing her.

These are real life examples, examples of the reasons I gave several pages ago. Just because you deny the reality of them, doesn't make them no less real and they are not propaganda.
 
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Jack

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I'll take Jesus being merciful when you're not every single time!
Killing babies is "merciful"? That sounds more like Satan than Jesus.
Not at all. I would suggest do some real research and/or visit a hospital and see for yourself. Not all pregnancies are viable pregnancies and sometimes the fetus will start killing the mother. That is not propaganda and is straight fact. Facts that you would know if you actually knew one iota about this subject.
John 15
13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.

Jesus didn't mean to kill your baby to save yourself.
 

Naomanos

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Killing babies is "merciful"? That sounds more like Satan than Jesus.

If the fetus is going to die anyway, in other words, the fetus is killing the mother and no mother means no pregnancy which means the fetus dies anyway, is not the life of the mother more important, especially if she has other children? Why should both die when an snoring will save the mother?

Jesus didn't mean to kill your baby to save yourself.

That is my favorite scripture and at face value that is what it means. I do not think Jesus meant that if the fetus is killing you and both of you will die, that you must just die too. There will be two deaths, not just one.

Look, I'm not going to change my mind. I will always support medical abortions where the mother's life will be saved. While it is sad that an abortion must happen, the life of the mother is also of value and must be protected when the fetus is going to die anyway. I am talking about when the fetus cannot be saved.
 
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