A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[Adventageous]

The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month".

Actually, it does, when several texts are read carefully together, as for instance:

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

With that, and an OT text, about "Abia (Abijah)", we start to get some information, along with the several time statements in Luke, etc.

Then combine that with the phrase, "there was no room for them in the inn.", because of a Feast of the LORD, in which all the males of Israel were to come to Jerusalem, and the surrounding cities were full up for all of the pilgrims, and the timeframe was not in the spring, but fall. Feast of Tabernacles, in which God with us, in the tent of the flesh of mankind. This is the short of it. The long of it takes some time to show.

 

[RLT63]

Matt 10:38....Mounce Interlinear...
"38 And kai whoever hos does not ou take lambanō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō is eimi not ou worthy axios of me egō."

Matt 16:24...
"24 Then tote · ho Jesus Iēsous told legō · ho his autos disciples mathētēs, “ If ei anyone tis resolves thelō to come erchomai after opisō me egō, he must deny aparneomai himself heautou and kai take airō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō."

Matt 27:32...
"As they were going exerchomai out , · de they came heuriskō across a man anthrōpos named onoma Simon Simōn, from Cyrene Kyrēnaios. This houtos man they conscripted angareuō to hina carry airō · ho his autos cross stauros.

Matt 27:42...
" and kai saying legō, “ You who ho would destroy katalyō the ho temple naos and kai rebuild oikodomeō it in en three treis days hēmera, save sōzō yourself seautou! If ei you are eimi the Son hyios of ho God theos, come katabainō down from apo the ho cross stauros!”

Mark 8:34...
"34 · kai When he had called proskaleō the ho crowd ocs with syn · ho his autos disciples mathētēs, he said legō to them autos, “ If ei anyone tis would thelō come akoloutheō after opisō me egō, he must deny aparneomai himself heautou, · kai take airō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō."

What do you notice from the Interlinear about the word translated "cross"? It is "stauros", for which Strongs gives the primary definition....

"σταυρός, σταυροῦ, ὁ (from ἵστημι (root sta); cf. Latinstauro, English staff (see Skeat, Etymological Dictionary, under the word); Curtius, § 216; Vanicek, p. 1126);
1. an upright stake, especially a pointed one (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon).

2. a cross;
a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections....."

The stauros' used for these executions had a few different configurations....

View attachment 29064 View attachment 29065 View attachment 29066

But it doesn't matter what configuration it was....since we are not to make images to use in our worship.
The cross emerged as a symbol for Christianity in Roman Catholicism.....it was unknown except in paganism for the first three centuries.....

Strong's Greek: 4716. σταυρός (stauros) -- Cross

biblehub.com

 

[Wrangler]

Strong's Greek: 4716. σταυρός (stauros) -- Cross

biblehub.com

It's so funny that she chided me in another thread where I asked about Jacob, claiming I was ignoring the big picture. Here she is challenging the geometry of the instrument of our lord's sacrifice.

BTW, I thought Post #538 by @Adventageous did a great job of dispelling the claim the cross is a pagan myth or symbol. Yet, the 'big picture' back and forth will undoubtedly continue.

 

[RLT63]

It's so funny that she chided me in another thread where I asked about Jacob, claiming I was ignoring the big picture. Here she is challenging the geometry of the instrument of our lord's sacrifice.

BTW, I thought Post #538 by @Adventageous did a great job of dispelling the claim the cross is a pagan myth or symbol. Yet, the 'big picture' back and forth will undoubtedly continue.

@Adventageous has made many good points despite a bit of overkill.

 

[Wrangler]

@Adventageous has made many good points despite a bit of overkill.

I was accused the other day of that in the real world dealing with businss. The Art of Persuasion is rooted in knowing your audience.

What is too little or too much depends on the audience. Our friend Marks repeatedly asked Mr E for exegisis on a certain passage. I doubt anyone could answer Marks question to his satisfaction. His malapropistic use of exegisis begs for overkill IF the question is answerable at all.

 

[RLT63]

I was accused the other day of that in the real world dealing with businss. The Art of Persuasion is rooted in knowing your audience.

What is too little or too much depends on the audience. Our friend Marks repeatedly asked Mr E for exegisis on a certain passage. I doubt anyone could answer Marks question to his satisfaction. His malapropistic use of exegisis begs for overkill IF the question is answerable at all.

We all have our faults but I find it ironic @Aunty Jane complaining about the length and number of someone else’s posts

 

[Wrangler]

I missed this last exchange. My apologies ...

You miss the point as much as this guy does.....the crusades were murderous conquests, just as they were from Christendom's actions with the Spanish Conquistadors.

That’s not a point. That’s an opinion. A politically correct opinion of many but wrong nonetheless.

The crusades were a defensive war as the book and the data based graph demonstrate.

Nations cannot use God as an excuse to steal someone else's territory, and then claim a victory for God if they won.

You obviously don’t know the Bible nearly as well as you think you do. I honestly cannot believe you said this!

My Bible states in the introduction to Joshua the Conquest of Cana. This is EXACTLY using God as an excuse to steal someone else's territory, and then claim a victory for God when they won. And there are many other such stories!

There is so much conquering and blood shed, in God’s name, ordered by God, one cannot miss it! You must be willfully ignorant - even if the term is not in Scripture.

Sodom and Gomorrah were two cities blasted out of existence by missiles from heaven. And except for 8 people, God wiped out everyone on Earth.

God himself has the title of LORD of Heaven’s Armies. Again, this is not ceremonial. Who is our Father? Who are we supposed to emulate? The conquering LORD of Heaven’s Armies, that’s who.

Oh c’mon Wrangler.....the “Promised Land” was called such because God “promised” it to Israel long before they actually got there.

Irrelevant as BOTH are true. The promised land still had to be conquored militarily, even though the conquest was at God's command, promised to be delivered into the hands he choose.

 

[Dropship]

If JW's object to Dec 25th as 'pagan' why don't they simply choose another date, then they can celebrate Jesus's birth like the rest of us?
Same with Easter, they can pick any date to celebrate Jesus's resurrection.
At the moment they celebrate neither and I'm sure satan is delighted..:)

 

[Wrangler]

If JW's object to Dec 25th as 'pagan' why don't they simply choose another date, then they can celebrate Jesus's birth like the rest of us?

Your question brilliantly reveals the ruse of their claim of pagan roots.

The truth is, they don’t know how to differentiate between worshipping and celebrating.

 

[RLT63]

If JW's object to Dec 25th as 'pagan' why don't they simply choose another date, then they can celebrate Jesus's birth like the rest of us?
Same with Easter, they can pick any date to celebrate Jesus's resurrection.
At the moment they celebrate neither and I'm sure satan is delighted..:)

I think they do have some kind of resurrection service around Easter time.

 

[Adventageous]

We all have our faults but I find it ironic @Aunty Jane complaining about the length and number of someone else’s posts

We all know it was never about 'length', but about documented 'content'.

 

[Adventageous]

@Adventageous has made many good points despite a bit of overkill.

Ecc_9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

:)

I usually take a 2nd death approach, instead of a 1st death approach. In the 2nd death approach, there is no hope of coming back.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Strong's Greek: 4716. σταυρός (stauros) -- Cross

biblehub.com

Using Christendom’s scholars to translate a Greek word allows them to make claims that are not valid.

Yet reading on in your link is exactly what I posted....

“STRONGS NT 4716: σταυρός

σταυρός, σταυροῦ, ὁ (from ἵστημι (root sta); cf. Latinstauro, English staff (see Skeat, Etymological Dictionary, under the word); Curtius, § 216; Vanicek, p. 1126);
1. an upright stake, especially a pointed one (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon).

2. a cross;

a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections”....

But I also showed you that Roman crosses were not only in the shape of a “t”. Did you not notice?...or didn't you want to?

Taking a secular source of information is less likely to have things read into a word that doesn’t mean what Christendom wants it to. The point of my post was to highlight that there is no explicit word for a cross in Greek and that the word used was “stauros” which never means a cross exclusively....besides which fact, making images to use in worship was forbidden by God’s law. The cross as a religious symbol is undeniable....but it isn’t exclusive to Christianity.

Here is what Wiki has to say as to the origin and of the cross as a religious symbol.....FWIW...

“The cross has been widely recognized as a symbol of Christianity from an early period.[1][2][3] However, the use of the cross as a religious symbol predates Christianity; in the ancient times it was a pagan religious symbol throughout Europe and western Asia. The effigy of a man hanging on a cross was set up in the fields to protect the crops. It often appeared in conjunction with the female-genital circle or oval, to signify the sacred marriage, as in Egyptian amulet Nefer[4] with male cross and female orb, considered as an amulet of blessedness, a charm of sexual harmony.[5]

Latin crux referred to the gibbet where criminals were executed, a stake or pole, with or without transom, on which the condemned were impaled or hanged, but more particularly a cross or the pole of a carriage.[6] The derived verb cruciāre means "to put to death on the cross" or, more frequently, "to put to the rack, to torture, torment", especially in reference to mental troubles.[7] In the Roman world, furca replaced crux as the name of some cross-like instruments for lethal and temporary punishment,[8][9] ranging from a forked cross to a gibbet or gallows.[10]

The Greek equivalent of Latin crux "stake, gibbet" is stauros, found in texts of four centuries or more before the gospels and always in the plural number to indicate a stake or pole. From the first century BC, it is used to indicate an instrument used in executions.”

So, the Romans used various configuration in their crucifixions.....and there is no configuration specified in the death of Christ......it doesn’t matter what the configuration was anyway. It was Christ’s death that was highlighted in the Bible, not the instrument used to execute him.

If we go back into Israel’s history, those accused of capital crimes were executed and their bodies hung on a stake, accursed of God.....this served as a warning to others. Paul referred to this with regard to the manner of Christ’s death.
Galatians 3:13....
“Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”
The word there is “xylon” which means “tree”.....not cross.

It is translated various ways according to Strongs....."stocks", "clubs", "wood" and "tree"...it is rendered "cross" only when Christendom's translators wanted to make it suggest that such a rendering was correct. I don't believe it ever was.

As I have said before, what if Jesus had been hung in a gallows? Would Christians have a gallows on their church buildings or worn as jewellery around their necks? Would some have a little figure of Jesus swinging from the rope? The concept is at best, bizarre.

 

[RLT63]

Using Christendom’s scholars to translate a Greek word allows them to make claims that are not valid.

Yet reading on in your link is exactly what I posted....

“STRONGS NT 4716: σταυρός

σταυρός, σταυροῦ, ὁ (from ἵστημι (root sta); cf. Latinstauro, English staff (see Skeat, Etymological Dictionary, under the word); Curtius, § 216; Vanicek, p. 1126);
1. an upright stake, especially a pointed one (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon).

2. a cross;

a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections”....

But I also showed you that Roman crosses were not only in the shape of a “t”. Did you not notice?...or didn't you want to?

Taking a secular source of information is less likely to have things read into a word that doesn’t mean what Christendom wants it to. The point of my post was to highlight that there is no explicit word for a cross in Greek and that the word used was “stauros” which never means a cross exclusively....besides which fact, making images to use in worship was forbidden by God’s law. The cross as a religious symbol is undeniable....but it isn’t exclusive to Christianity.

Here is what Wiki has to say as to the origin and of the cross as a religious symbol.....FWIW...

“The cross has been widely recognized as a symbol of Christianity from an early period.[1][2][3] However, the use of the cross as a religious symbol predates Christianity; in the ancient times it was a pagan religious symbol throughout Europe and western Asia. The effigy of a man hanging on a cross was set up in the fields to protect the crops. It often appeared in conjunction with the female-genital circle or oval, to signify the sacred marriage, as in Egyptian amulet Nefer[4] with male cross and female orb, considered as an amulet of blessedness, a charm of sexual harmony.[5]

Latin crux referred to the gibbet where criminals were executed, a stake or pole, with or without transom, on which the condemned were impaled or hanged, but more particularly a cross or the pole of a carriage.[6] The derived verb cruciāre means "to put to death on the cross" or, more frequently, "to put to the rack, to torture, torment", especially in reference to mental troubles.[7] In the Roman world, furca replaced crux as the name of some cross-like instruments for lethal and temporary punishment,[8][9] ranging from a forked cross to a gibbet or gallows.[10]

The Greek equivalent of Latin crux "stake, gibbet" is stauros, found in texts of four centuries or more before the gospels and always in the plural number to indicate a stake or pole. From the first century BC, it is used to indicate an instrument used in executions.”

So, the Romans used various configuration in their crucifixions.....and there is no configuration specified in the death of Christ......it doesn’t matter what the configuration was anyway. It was Christ’s death that was highlighted in the Bible, not the instrument used to execute him.

If we go back into Israel’s history, those accused of capital crimes were executed and their bodies hung on a stake, accursed of God.....this served as a warning to others. Paul referred to this with regard to the manner of Christ’s death.
Galatians 3:13....
“Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”
The word there is “xylon” which means “tree”.....not cross.

It it translated various ways according to Strongs....."stocks", "clubs", "wood" and "tree"...it is rendered "cross" only when Christendom's translators wanted to make it suggest that such a rendering was correct. I don't believe it ever was.

As I have said before, what if Jesus had been hung in a gallows? Would Christians have a gallows on their church buildings or worn as jewellery around their necks? Would some have a little figure of Jesus swinging from the rope? The concept is at best, bizarre.

Cross stauros.
Aunty Jane said:
Matt 10:38....Mounce Interlinear...
"38 And kai whoever hos does not ou take lambanō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō is eimi not ou worthy axios of me egō."

Matt 16:24...
"24 Then tote · ho Jesus Iēsous told legō · ho his autos disciples mathētēs, “ If ei anyone tis resolves thelō to come erchomai after opisō me egō, he must deny aparneomai himself heautou and kai take airō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō."

Matt 27:32...
"As they were going exerchomai out , · de they came heuriskō across a man anthrōpos named onoma Simon Simōn, from Cyrene Kyrēnaios. This houtos man they conscripted angareuō to hina carry airō · ho his autos cross stauros.

Matt 27:42...
" and kai saying legō, “ You who ho would destroy katalyō the ho temple naos and kai rebuild oikodomeō it in en three treis days hēmera, save sōzō yourself seautou! If ei you are eimi the Son hyios of ho God theos, come katabainō down from apo the ho cross stauros!”

Mark 8:34...
"34 · kai When he had called proskaleō the ho crowd ocs with syn · ho his autos disciples mathētēs, he said legō to them autos, “ If ei anyone tis would thelō come akoloutheō after opisō me egō, he must deny aparneomai himself heautou, · kai take airō up · ho his autos crossstauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think they do have some kind of resurrection service around Easter time.

We commemorate the death of Jesus Christ as he commanded......on the actual date.....not taken to the nearest "Friday" so that everyone who isn't an Christian can have an excuse for a 4 day holiday......(not a holy day)....an excuse to eat chocolate eggs and to teach children about the Easter Bunny.
Is it OK to lie to your children?

Ever been to a dawn service on Easter Sunday? The pagans did that too.
"Hot cross buns"...pagan as well.

You might like to read this piece from "The Guardian".....not everyone thinks Easter has anything to do with Christ.
The pagan roots of Easter | Heather McDougall.

Christendom never celebrated its own festivals....all are "borrowed" and relabeled, so as to make them appear to be what they are not.
We are told not to touch spiritually unclean practices. (2 Cor 6:14-18) The truth has no 'fellowship' with lies. "Christ" has no fellowship with "the devil" (Belial).

 

[Aunty Jane]

Cross stauros.
Aunty Jane said:
Matt 10:38....Mounce Interlinear...
"38 And kai whoever hos does not ou take lambanō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō is eimi not ou worthy axios of me egō."

Matt 16:24...
"24 Then tote · ho Jesus Iēsous told legō · ho his autos disciples mathētēs, “ If ei anyone tis resolves thelō to come erchomai after opisō me egō, he must deny aparneomai himself heautou and kai take airō up · ho his autos cross stauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō."

Matt 27:32...
"As they were going exerchomai out , · de they came heuriskō across a man anthrōpos named onoma Simon Simōn, from Cyrene Kyrēnaios. This houtos man they conscripted angareuō to hina carry airō · ho his autos cross stauros.

Matt 27:42...
" and kai saying legō, “ You who ho would destroy katalyō the ho temple naos and kai rebuild oikodomeō it in en three treis days hēmera, save sōzō yourself seautou! If ei you are eimi the Son hyios of ho God theos, come katabainō down from apo the ho cross stauros!”

Mark 8:34...
"34 · kai When he had called proskaleō the ho crowd ocs with syn · ho his autos disciples mathētēs, he said legō to them autos, “ If ei anyone tis would thelō come akoloutheō after opisō me egō, he must deny aparneomai himself heautou, · kai take airō up · ho his autos crossstauros and kai follow akoloutheō me egō

And this was meant to state what???
All of Christendom's translators wanted "stauros" to mean "cross" when it never did.
Each one of those scriptures is a mistranslation of a word that was explained in your own quote.....

In case you missed it...."stauros" means....

"σταυρός, σταυροῦ, ὁ (from ἵστημι (root sta); cf. Latinstauro, English staff (see Skeat, Etymological Dictionary, under the word); Curtius, § 216; Vanicek, p. 1126);
1. an upright stake, especially a pointed one (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon).

2. a cross;

a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections”....

The Greek "stauros" never meant one specific configuration of the Roman's favored means of execution.

 

[RLT63]

Using Christendom’s scholars to translate a Greek word allows them to make claims that are not valid.

Yet reading on in your link is exactly what I posted....

“STRONGS NT 4716: σταυρός

σταυρός, σταυροῦ, ὁ (from ἵστημι (root sta); cf. Latinstauro, English staff (see Skeat, Etymological Dictionary, under the word); Curtius, § 216; Vanicek, p. 1126);
1. an upright stake, especially a pointed one (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon).

2. a cross;

a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections”....

But I also showed you that Roman crosses were not only in the shape of a “t”. Did you not notice?...or didn't you want to?

Taking a secular source of information is less likely to have things read into a word that doesn’t mean what Christendom wants it to. The point of my post was to highlight that there is no explicit word for a cross in Greek and that the word used was “stauros” which never means a cross exclusively....besides which fact, making images to use in worship was forbidden by God’s law. The cross as a religious symbol is undeniable....but it isn’t exclusive to Christianity.

Here is what Wiki has to say as to the origin and of the cross as a religious symbol.....FWIW...

“The cross has been widely recognized as a symbol of Christianity from an early period.[1][2][3] However, the use of the cross as a religious symbol predates Christianity; in the ancient times it was a pagan religious symbol throughout Europe and western Asia. The effigy of a man hanging on a cross was set up in the fields to protect the crops. It often appeared in conjunction with the female-genital circle or oval, to signify the sacred marriage, as in Egyptian amulet Nefer[4] with male cross and female orb, considered as an amulet of blessedness, a charm of sexual harmony.[5]

Latin crux referred to the gibbet where criminals were executed, a stake or pole, with or without transom, on which the condemned were impaled or hanged, but more particularly a cross or the pole of a carriage.[6] The derived verb cruciāre means "to put to death on the cross" or, more frequently, "to put to the rack, to torture, torment", especially in reference to mental troubles.[7] In the Roman world, furca replaced crux as the name of some cross-like instruments for lethal and temporary punishment,[8][9] ranging from a forked cross to a gibbet or gallows.[10]

The Greek equivalent of Latin crux "stake, gibbet" is stauros, found in texts of four centuries or more before the gospels and always in the plural number to indicate a stake or pole. From the first century BC, it is used to indicate an instrument used in executions.”

So, the Romans used various configuration in their crucifixions.....and there is no configuration specified in the death of Christ......it doesn’t matter what the configuration was anyway. It was Christ’s death that was highlighted in the Bible, not the instrument used to execute him.

If we go back into Israel’s history, those accused of capital crimes were executed and their bodies hung on a stake, accursed of God.....this served as a warning to others. Paul referred to this with regard to the manner of Christ’s death.
Galatians 3:13....
“Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”
The word there is “xylon” which means “tree”.....not cross.

It it translated various ways according to Strongs....."stocks", "clubs", "wood" and "tree"...it is rendered "cross" only when Christendom's translators wanted to make it suggest that such a rendering was correct. I don't believe it ever was.

As I have said before, what if Jesus had been hung in a gallows? Would Christians have a gallows on their church buildings or worn as jewellery around their necks? Would some have a little figure of Jesus swinging from the rope? The concept is at best, bizarre.

Act 1:3 - To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. ——- Jesus sacrifice was his passion and we celebrate his triumph on the cross.

 

[RLT63]

Using Christendom’s scholars to translate a Greek word allows them to make claims that are not valid.

Yet reading on in your link is exactly what I posted....

“STRONGS NT 4716: σταυρός

σταυρός, σταυροῦ, ὁ (from ἵστημι (root sta); cf. Latinstauro, English staff (see Skeat, Etymological Dictionary, under the word); Curtius, § 216; Vanicek, p. 1126);
1. an upright stake, especially a pointed one (Homer, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon).

2. a cross;

a. the well-known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections”....

But I also showed you that Roman crosses were not only in the shape of a “t”. Did you not notice?...or didn't you want to?

Taking a secular source of information is less likely to have things read into a word that doesn’t mean what Christendom wants it to. The point of my post was to highlight that there is no explicit word for a cross in Greek and that the word used was “stauros” which never means a cross exclusively....besides which fact, making images to use in worship was forbidden by God’s law. The cross as a religious symbol is undeniable....but it isn’t exclusive to Christianity.

Here is what Wiki has to say as to the origin and of the cross as a religious symbol.....FWIW...

“The cross has been widely recognized as a symbol of Christianity from an early period.[1][2][3] However, the use of the cross as a religious symbol predates Christianity; in the ancient times it was a pagan religious symbol throughout Europe and western Asia. The effigy of a man hanging on a cross was set up in the fields to protect the crops. It often appeared in conjunction with the female-genital circle or oval, to signify the sacred marriage, as in Egyptian amulet Nefer[4] with male cross and female orb, considered as an amulet of blessedness, a charm of sexual harmony.[5]

Latin crux referred to the gibbet where criminals were executed, a stake or pole, with or without transom, on which the condemned were impaled or hanged, but more particularly a cross or the pole of a carriage.[6] The derived verb cruciāre means "to put to death on the cross" or, more frequently, "to put to the rack, to torture, torment", especially in reference to mental troubles.[7] In the Roman world, furca replaced crux as the name of some cross-like instruments for lethal and temporary punishment,[8][9] ranging from a forked cross to a gibbet or gallows.[10]

The Greek equivalent of Latin crux "stake, gibbet" is stauros, found in texts of four centuries or more before the gospels and always in the plural number to indicate a stake or pole. From the first century BC, it is used to indicate an instrument used in executions.”

So, the Romans used various configuration in their crucifixions.....and there is no configuration specified in the death of Christ......it doesn’t matter what the configuration was anyway. It was Christ’s death that was highlighted in the Bible, not the instrument used to execute him.

If we go back into Israel’s history, those accused of capital crimes were executed and their bodies hung on a stake, accursed of God.....this served as a warning to others. Paul referred to this with regard to the manner of Christ’s death.
Galatians 3:13....
“Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.”
The word there is “xylon” which means “tree”.....not cross.

It it translated various ways according to Strongs....."stocks", "clubs", "wood" and "tree"...it is rendered "cross" only when Christendom's translators wanted to make it suggest that such a rendering was correct. I don't believe it ever was.

As I have said before, what if Jesus had been hung in a gallows? Would Christians have a gallows on their church buildings or worn as jewellery around their necks? Would some have a little figure of Jesus swinging from the rope? The concept is at best, bizarre.

If you prefer secular sources there is no consensus either. Instrument of Jesus' crucifixion - Wikipedia

 

[Aunty Jane]

Act 1:3 - To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. ——- Jesus sacrifice was his passion and we celebrate his triumph on the cross.

Commemorating Christ's death is what he commanded....not his resurrection, nor the instrument used to kill him, which were of themselves a means to an end. The stake was the means of his death....the resurrection was the means by which Jesus could return to where he was before his human sojourn here on earth. I can show you where Christ asked for a commemoration of his death.....please show me where we are told to celebrate his resurrection.....especially with a commandeered pagan festival....with all the trappings of the false goddess in whose honor the original was held. Are you incapable of honest research?

Believe whatever you wish...my job is done here.....rehashing is pointless.

"A man convinced against his will...is of the same opinion still". Still true.

 

[RLT63]

Commemorating Christ's death is what he commanded....not his resurrection, nor the instrument used to kill him, which were of themselves a means to an end. The stake was the means of his death....the resurrection was the means by which Jesus could return to where he was before his human sojourn here on earth. I can show you where Christ asked for a commemoration of his death.....please show me where we are told to celebrate his resurrection.....especially with a commandeered pagan festival....with all the trappings of the false goddess in whose honor the original was held. Are you incapable of honest research?

Believe whatever you wish...my job is done here.....rehashing is pointless.

"A man convinced against his will...is of the same opinion still". Still true.

How did this go from to a discussion about the cross to you asking for a defense of Easter? If we don’t celebrate Jesus’ resurrection why do we worship on Sunday? I don’t remember JWs having services on Saturdays. Do they? Why is the Resurrection So Important? | Cornerstone University