Any thoughts on this? No exploding heads please.
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It is closer to saying that if you don’t assume sons of God has to mean angels, because of one other verse.
Thats what I see with the preponderance of the WHOLE of scripture. If you don’t see what I see, it’s fine. I just share what I see. We are all the ant looking at the skyscraper.
I'm seeing the objection that angels don't have the "right parts" to accomplish what Jude said happened.
When angels met with Abraham, they seemed to be able to eat human food OK. They must have had a stomach with the correct digestive enzymes, right?
Is this a serious objection?
It's like Zechariah, "No, Gabrial, we're all too old, don't you know?" Compare to Mary, "But, I don't get it, how can that happen?"
Zechariah looks at his condition, and questions the reality of the angel's word. Mary looks at her condition, and wonders how it will happen because she doesn't understand.
Which is better, to deny what you don't understand, or just admit you don't understand? And which is better, to change the Word, or change your mind?
Much love!
When angels met with Abraham, they seemed to be able to eat human food OK. They must have had a stomach with the correct digestive enzymes, right?
Is this a serious objection?
It's like Zechariah, "No, Gabrial, we're all too old, don't you know?" Compare to Mary, "But, I don't get it, how can that happen?"
Zechariah looks at his condition, and questions the reality of the angel's word. Mary looks at her condition, and wonders how it will happen because she doesn't understand.
Which is better, to deny what you don't understand, or just admit you don't understand? And which is better, to change the Word, or change your mind?
Much love!
Including Jude??
In like manner . . . fornicating . . . strange flesh . . . it's right there.
Much love!
I leave it for you to say if this is clear . . .
Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
"in like manner", that is, they did the same thing. Giving themselves over to fornication, I think we all know what that means. "Going after strange (heteros- of a different kind) flesh".
The men of Sodom were trying to have sex with the angels. And in the same way, these angels which left their habitation (oiketerion - used one other place) had sex with women. In like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, going after flesh of a different kind.
This word habitation, oiketerion, is used one other place in the Bible,
2 Corinthians 5:2 KJV
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
"strange flesh" is from "heteros", and means flesh of a different kind.
1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
Not all flesh is the same, there are different kinds of flesh, men, beasts, fishes, birds . . . and celestial bodies, and terrestrial bodies.
These angels "left their habitation", their heavenly realm body, fornicating with flesh of a different kind. That's the plain saying of the passages.
Much love!
Yes, but you see, Abraham didn’t actually look beneath their robes.
And that’s a weak argument because Jesus ate a piece of fish in His celestial body and I don’t think He then asked them where the nearest latrine was later. And Somehow, I don’t think the angels who ate what Abraham gave them debated whether to wait and use a latrine before they went back to heaven.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This which you say is true, and you are half way to understanding 100% of the complete picture/truth.
Yes, to me, including Jude. A sin “in like manner” as the sin of the angels. Not the exact same sin in every detail, but a sin “in like manner.”
An airplane moves in like manner as a bird.
More of the same . . .
You seem to need to be able to figure out the angelic biology before you will believe what is written. Sigh!
Do you think then that this passage is also false, that the angels didn't actually eat what Abraham served? Like a three year old's "tea party"? Little pretend sips?
Much love!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
GREAT = now follow your own correct deduction here:
Both planes and birds fly thru the air = same as:
angels and humans BOTH comitted the same sin of sexual immorality = (planes and birds both flying and thru the same air)
just as Jude clearly describes
Well haven’t you been supposing over the hidden parts of an Angel and their angelic biology in human form? You assume they have sexual appendages in human form. That then colors how you read.
im confused as to which passage you say I think is false…and I already gave my thoughts that the angels Abraham fed actually ate and that Jesus actually ate but I don’t then suppose they had to defecate. I rather doubt it.
That’s clear!
It just isn’t correct. I understand what you believe, but your beliefs are in error.
I do want to say however, that I’ve seen a remarkable change in the way that you approach matters these days- and I don’t mean to sound patronizing. You’ve softened your spirit and it’s noticeable. I just wanted to encourage you a little, even while I disagree. I love it when we can disagree without being disagreeable.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus’ LEGAL descendant-ship is of the House of David’s Direct BLOOD Line descendant-ship to Gods human Faithful Servant Abraham, who himself was ......gifted the ”Spiritual Seed of God, (who IS Christ).”
Natural...seed of a man, is the father.
Natural...seed of a woman, is the mother.
Natural fathers and Natural mothers are NOT ALWAYS...
the LEGAL fathers and mothers.
Gal 3:
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed (natural mans seed) were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, (Gods Spiritual Seed) And to thy seed, which is Christ.
John 8:
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
His DAY? The Lords Day, is not a single Day. The Lords Day, is every Day a man receives the Spirit of Truth (ie Christ Jesus’ Baptism...Baptism of the Holy Spirit....the Spirit of Truth with-IN a man)
Every human (terrestrial, earthly), has his own Reproducing Seeds, to Reproduce a human offspring.
Gods Spiritual Seed, is not purposed to Reproduce a human offspring.
Gods spiritual Seed, RE-BIRTHS a human mans natural spirit.
A human mans natural spirit, IS his TRUTH in his HEART.
A human mans RE-BIRTHED spirit, becomes INDWELT with Gods TRUTH.
Thereafter the man HAS Gods TRUTH in His Heart. (Baptism of the Holy Spirit)
A man CAN rely on THAT TRUTH, or continue to rely on his Wishy Washing ever changing Carnal MIND.
Every human, WHO receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit....takes upon themselves the SEED of Abraham.
The are accounted BOTH, as a son of Abraham and a son of God.
(They don’t BECOME a Hebrew, a Tribesman, a Jew, Israel.....They Becomes “entitled” to the SAME “PROMISES”....”entitled” to be HEIRS of Abraham’s PROMISED LAND.)
....sons of God, is a “title of status”, appropriately applicable to ANY angel or man-kind of being, (who were Created with FREEWILL) WHO have exercised their Freewill and pledged and kept their True faithful allegiance to the Lord God Almighty.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Angels ARE spirits and HAVE body’s, and souls.
Men ARE body’s and HAVE spirits, and souls.
Men Consume (That Which IS of out of their own Habitat; food, water, meat, metals, herbs, plants, fruits, minerals, vitamins) and Expel Waste.
The Earth is NOT a spirits (habitat of origin)...We have no ability to research, investigate the INSIDE of a spirits BODY, to even KNOW if they have, (as a human, a Digestive System,) or IF WHAT they Consume Requires an expulsion of waste.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
You are correct but have a slight correction to make in your opening.
Review carefully as you should be able to see it.
Dropship
Well-Known Member
Christians are something special..:)-
"..to those who believed in Jesus's name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, but born of God" (John 1:12/13)
"..to those who believed in Jesus's name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, but born of God" (John 1:12/13)
How do you exegete the passage?
What specifically do you find inaccurate in my post?
Much love!
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Personally, I don't see this a valid objection. "It can't happen because I think it's crazy", "it can't happen because I don't understand how", like that.
Much love!
Well, for starters— angels don’t have physical bodies—- they temporarily dwell in ours. We are ‘the host of heaven’ and the kingdom of heaven is within. Neither do spiritual beings ‘have sex’ with humans. To put it crudely- that’s not what mating is, in a spiritual sense.
Perhaps I’ll start a new thread or take it elsewhere to disentangle. I do agree with you that forcing a particular understanding upon a passage has an unfortunate result, but it’s mostly because of incorrect assumptions. It’s like saying IF this means this, THEN that must mean that…. It only holds up if your original IF is correct. If your original IF is incorrect, but you believe it is true— it will yield only false conclusions.
Does that make sense? You have to start from the start and ensure that your premise is solid.
Taken
Well-Known Member
~ IMO...the delineation of “sons of God”, in the angelic sense:
* reveals...Holy Angel servants of God, their Estate Heaven, had access to mans Estate, Earth.
~ IMO...the Express mention “of daughters of Men”:
* reveals...Holy Angels Came TO Earth, (SAW) Female Humans AND. were completely AW STRUCK to SEE something SO BEAUTIFUL, that they HAD NOT SEEN, in their own “Heavenly estate”
~ IMO...Angels are unseen, Observers.
~ IMO...Angels Observed the Behaviors of Human Men, marrying, copulating with Human Women...and Freely made their CHOICE to do the SAME.
~ IMO...ONCE an Angel Having Come down To Earth, DO SO copulate with Human Women....They automatically Gave up their right to return to (now defunct) Heavenly Estate.
* revealed is the obvious characteristics of the “Offspring” of angels and human women. Enormous size and bodily strength. At the mere SIGHT of these “offsprings”, mustered Fear among Human men.
* revealed the angels, WHO freely chose to mate with human women, suffered the consequence of being SENT off the face of the Earth, to “WITH-IN” the earth, Without ability to Leave.
* Noting...^^^ the Harsh Consequence for a “spirit to mate with a human”.
* ALSO NOTING...SOME People have determined AND Preach...Jesus IS the Offspring Of a “SPIRIT (God) and a HUMAN Woman”....even going so far as to making the human woman’s DNA, a contributor to Jesus’ Humanity.
* Would not THAT ^^^ be worthy of God needing to send Himself bound in chains IN the Earth for a Spirit impregnating a Human Woman’s SEED?
Uh...just saying...
Jesus was born of God...Mary was a faithful servant who delivered forth, according to law of nature, 9 months.... (not the law of
John 1:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Glory to God,
Taken
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