Any thoughts on this? No exploding heads please.

[stunnedbygrace]

Odd that this is your response to me laying out in words the illogic of what you think…

 

[David in NJ]

Odd that this is your response to me laying out in words the illogic of what you think…

i follow the 'logic' of
A.) the Lord Jesus Christ
B.) the Apostle Paul
C.) the Holy Spirit who guided men to write the Scripture

You clearly demonstrated erroneous logic in your post #74

Please review that post and understand how your logic came to a erroneous conclusion.

Please review the words of the Apostle John who wrote:

Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have explained it to my satisfaction. I looked up all the scriptures to see if the man spoke truthfully. I find much more support for what he says than for the other theory. And, in fact, reading comprehension alone supports his theory, which I also showed.
Unless something further comes to me, I’ve found what I wanted to find in this thread, to my satisfaction. :)

 

[David in NJ]

Theories come and go but the words of God will never end/fall away/fall short/miss the bullseye.

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, because:
“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
But the word of the Lord endures forever.”
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 Peter 1:22-25

 

[David in NJ]

Salvation is NOT according to bloodlines so this is a total fantasy! Christ is of the tribe of Judah and the line of David, and both Judah and David sinned against God.

The Bible is crystal clear that wicked fathers produced righteous sons and righteous fathers produced wicked sons. End of story. If you don't believe this kindly spend some serious study times in Kings (I & 2) and Chronicles (1 & 2). God has those books in the Bible to teach us that there is no such thing as a righteous or unrighteous bloodline and that every individual must choose to be either righteous or unrighteous.

As to "sons of God" in the OT, it is ALWAYS a reference to angels (good or evil).

Truth be told

 

[Mr E]

I have explained it to my satisfaction. I looked up all the scriptures to see if the man spoke truthfully. I find much more support for what he says than for the other theory. And, in fact, reading comprehension alone supports his theory, which I also showed.
Unless something further comes to me, I’ve found what I wanted to find in this thread, to my satisfaction. :)

And that says it all. You were fed what you liked, and ate to your satisfaction.

What's Wrong With The Chicken Feed? People Are Reporting That Their Chickens Have Stopped Laying Eggs, And Their Feed Might Be The Reason Why

What exactly is causing the egg shortage? Many people are reporting that there are issues with the commercial chicken feed, speculating that it has even…

www.eviemagazine.com

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And that says it all. You were fed what you liked, and ate to your satisfaction.

What's Wrong With The Chicken Feed? People Are Reporting That Their Chickens Have Stopped Laying Eggs, And Their Feed Might Be The Reason Why

What exactly is causing the egg shortage? Many people are reporting that there are issues with the commercial chicken feed, speculating that it has even…

www.eviemagazine.com

Nope. Not what happened.

 

[Mr E]

Nope. Not what happened.

How so? By your own words you are self-satisfied in this thread. It was like an all-you-can-eat buffet and I waited until you said you were done. Only a glutton would go looking for more after they stuffed themselves.

 

[Wrangler]

It's like death being separation, the separation of the soul from the body leaves a corpse. The separation of the spirit from God leaves a soul in a body, but without a spirit. You can take your preceptions and cultural background and say, death is when that body stops functioning, and that's partly right, but that's more the result of death (separation) than what death itself is. Limiting the meaning of death to "the body stops working" doesn't include "dead in trespasses and sin", however, separation does.

I know we talked about this before. What you’re saying is inventive but does not hold up to scrutiny. Of course death means only "the body stops working".

Separation from God is an independent function. It only matters as it pertains to being resurrected in a glorified body or not.

Your notion of death certainly does not consider the common word meaning. Perhaps you consider it an exception?

 

[Mr E]

I know we talked about this before. What you’re saying is inventive but does not hold up to scrutiny. Of course death means only "the body stops working".

Separation from God is an independent function. It only matters as it pertains to being resurrected in a glorified body or not.

Your notion of death certainly does not consider the common word meaning. Perhaps you consider it an exception?

If I understand him correctly-- he's just saying that physical death is not the same as spiritual death.

Scripture delineates the first death (physical) from the second death (spirit). You disagree with the distinction? Physical death, where 'the body stops working' is not a permanent state--in other words, it's not the end. It's more like moving day.

Like, the spirit moves on and leave an empty house behind.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How so? By your own words you are self-satisfied in this thread. It was like an all-you-can-eat buffet and I waited until you said you were done. Only a glutton would go looking for more after they stuffed themselves.

Well, first of all, you were wrong that I was “fed” what I liked. I asked God if the theory everyone regurgitates is actually true. I told him I suspected it wasn’t true but that I at least could tell something very bad happened for Him to determine them all to be completely corrupted and unsavable and drown them all. I told Him I know it’s probably not the most important thing to think about, except that I was pretty certain Genesis was working in reverse in a very fantastical (to me) way.
I already had some verses about “the depths of satan, deep things of Satan, sorceries, witchcraft, calling up of spirits, divining by the stars, magic charms, pharmakopeia etc. So it was in my mind that it was possibly things taught to them. I had begun a thread a while back on if it could have been things taught, dark arts, but everyone insisted only that the theory of angels procreating with humans was correct and how dare I say it wasn’t.
THEN, I heard a man speak about this (but not exhaustively, by any means) and things snapped into place in my mind but I wasn’t settled in it. So I did the thing I know I’m supposed to and searched the scriptures to see if I found anything that did not confirm it and if I found anything that did confirm it there. I even brought it here to see if anyone had anything concerning it that a man hadn’t taught them but that God gave them relating to it. But no one had anything from God, they just had the theory they had heard taught. But I also was looking for all of their refutations, to see if any of them put the man’s teaching in great doubt, and at least a few nonhysterical men came and helped me with these so I could work it out.
So I searched and found nothing could be given to really refute it. So the second false thing is that I searched this out so I could be “selfsatisfied.” I used the word satisfaction and you used it in a twisty way, such a way as to think bad of me and post your bad opinion of me as if doing as the bereans did is a wrong thing and just believing what everyone else says is a good thing.
When God sees the haughty look you wear on your face at all times with others and He brings you down from your high and lofty place, the fall is going to be very far, so if I were you, I would at least start climbing down now to see if I could meet Him halfway to minimize the distance.

 

[Wrangler]

If I understand him correctly-- he's just saying that physical death is not the same as spiritual death.

Scripture delineates the first death (physical) from the second death (spirit). You disagree with the distinction?

Yes, I disagree with the distinction.

Ayn Rand wrote about the notion of destruction of concepts. One example is to use adjectives to undermine the meaning of the noun. Another example is 'innocent victim.' We hear it so often people are wrongly equating the 2. Logic dictates that if there is an innocent victim, then there must be a thing guilty victim.

The idea of 'spiritual death' is an invention. One knows another word is appropriate because he equates it to separation. So, why not just use that word? There is obviously a finality that is sought in co-opting the meaning of death but that finality remains ambiguous.

 

[marks]

I don’t get that....however it appears the angels that mated with human women were “spanked (so to speak/ punished and sent away in chains, indicating, kept from continuing their folly”. And their “offspring”... a fearsome sight to earthly men.

Glory to God,
Taken

I've heard that some think the mythological Titans were these offspring. Seems reasonable to me.

And then there's Jude,

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"in like manner", that is, they did the same thing. Giving themselves over to fornication, I think we all know what that means. "Going after strange (heteros- of a different kind) flesh".

The men of Sodom were trying to have sex with the angels. And in the same way, these angels which left their habitation (oiketerion - used one other place) had sex with women. In like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, going after flesh of a different kind.

This word habitation, oiketerion, is used one other place in the Bible,

2 Corinthians 5:2 KJV
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

And apparently this happened both before and after the flood. And the spirits of their offspring are the unclean spirits we saw in Jesus' day, and until now. Neither angel nor man, they roam dry places seeking a body to inhabit. The "Rapha", there's a very interesting word to track through the OT, and tells you more of their story.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And that’s a real life demonstration on digging a pit to trap someone and falling into it yourself.

 

[marks]

I know we talked about this before. What you’re saying is inventive but does not hold up to scrutiny. Of course death means only "the body stops working".

Ephesians 2:1-2 KJV
1) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Colossians 2:13 KJV
13) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

I maintain there is more to it than that.

Much love!

 

[Mr E]

Well, first of all, you were wrong that I was “fed” what I liked. I asked God if the theory everyone regurgitates is actually true. I told him I suspected it wasn’t true but that I at least could tell something very bad happened for Him to determine them all to be completely corrupted and unsavable and drown them all. I told Him I know it’s probably not the most important thing to think about, except that I was pretty certain Genesis was working in reverse in a very fantastical (to me) way.
I already had some verses about “the depths of satan, deep things of Satan, sorceries, witchcraft, calling up of spirits, divining by the stars, magic charms, pharmakopeia etc. So it was in my mind that it was possibly things taught to them. I had begun a thread a while back on if it could have been things taught, dark arts, but everyone insisted only that the theory of angels procreating with humans was correct and how dare I say it wasn’t.
THEN, I heard a man speak about this (but not exhaustively, by any means) and things snapped into place in my mind but I wasn’t settled in it. So I did the thing I know I’m supposed to and searched the scriptures to see if I found anything that did not confirm it and if I found anything that did confirm it there. I even brought it here to see if anyone had anything concerning it that a man hadn’t taught them but that God gave them relating to it. But no one had anything from God, they just had the theory they had heard taught. But I also was looking for all of their refutations, to see if any of them put the man’s teaching in great doubt, and at least a few nonhysterical men came and helped me with these so I could work it out.
So I searched and found nothing could be given to really refute it. So the second false thing is that I searched this out so I could be “selfsatisfied.” I used the word satisfaction and you used it in a twisty way, such a way as to think bad of me and post your bad opinion of me as if doing as the bereans did is a wrong thing and just believing what everyone else says is a good thing.
When God sees the haughty look you wear on your face at all times with others and He brings you down from your high and lofty place, the fall is going to be very far, so if I were you, I would at least start climbing down now to see if I could meet Him halfway to minimize the distance.

You were the one who said you were satisfied, not me. The Bereans searched the scriptures, to see if what someone said was true. They were Jews- in a synagogue setting, hearing things that went against the things they thought-- that, is what they searched out. Not the things that 'rang true' to them, or confirmed what you call their biases. It was the things that confronted those biases that they researched thoroughly.

They had to give up their ideas and trade them for others in order to gain a new perspective. Few are willing to do this.

 

[Mr E]

Yes, I disagree with the distinction.

Ayn Rand wrote about the notion of destruction of concepts. One example is to use adjectives to undermine the meaning of the noun. Another example is 'innocent victim.' We hear it so often people are wrongly equating the 2. Logic dictates that if there is an innocent victim, then there must be a thing guilty victim.

The idea of 'spiritual death' is an invention. One knows another word is appropriate because he equates it to separation. So, why not just use that word? There is obviously a finality that is sought in co-opting the meaning of death but that finality remains ambiguous.

Baloney.

There's a noun distinct from any adjective.

 

[Wrangler]

I maintain there is more to it than that.

I cannot understand the Middle English you referenced. However, maintaining an invalid concept is a fruitless endeavor.

 

[Mr E]

And that’s a real life demonstration on digging a pit to trap someone and falling into it yourself.

When ever you encounter someone warning another in some form of "God's gonna getcha" (for what you said/did to me) you can know with certainty what kind of person you are dealing with-- it's a classic sign of ________?

When God sees the haughty look you wear on your face at all times with others and He brings you down from your high and lofty place, the fall is going to be very far, so if I were you, I would at least start climbing down now to see if I could meet Him halfway to minimize the distance.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I do understand that them leaving their proper dwelling place/leaving their habitation most likely has something to do with taking human form. But from there, men took a leap that is not stated. I think it more likely involved trickery like…making them believe you were a human so they would, instead of running in terror from you, listen to things you were encouraging them to do. Things like how to make your children genetically different somehow so they would be like gods on the earth. And other things too, since God destroyed all but a few animals.

Balaam plays heavily into it. He committed the same sin as the angels did by teaching the king what he could entice them to do that might bring Gods disfavor on them. And it was once again trying to get them to commit sexual sin by mingling with women they weren’t supposed to.

Its always trickery and enticement with Satan.