Well said Ronald.
And I am sure glad you could see through epi and his disciple/s
Imputation is based on the Old Testament
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And I am sure glad you could see through epi and his disciple/s
The reason why I put her on ignore, she can't think for herself and have fallen for her "teacher"
Stay strong in Christ Bruno.
You have lost your mind
he traditional reading for Yom Kippur morning focuses on the offerings that Aaron is to bring before God as atonement. He must make expiation for himself, then his household, and only after this is an offering brought for the entire community. The Yom Kippur Avodah service is based on the ritual that the priest performed in the ancient Temple on Yom Kippur. That ritual, in turn, is reflected in this Torah reading.
This reading is taken from the Torah portion Parashat Achrei Mot. Find commentaries on Achrei Mot here.
16:1. The LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron who died when they drew too close to the presence of the LORD.
16:2. The LORD said to Moses:
Tell your brother Aaron that he is not to come at will into the Shrine behind the curtain, in front of the cover that is upon the ark, lest he die; for I appear in the cloud over the cover.
16:3. Thus only shall Aaron enter the Shrine: with a bull of the herd for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
16:4. He shall be dressed in a sacral linen tunic, with linen breeches next to his flesh, and be girt with a linen sash, and he shall wear a linen turban. They are sacral vestments; he shall bathe his body in water and then put them on.
16:5. And from the Israelite community he shall take two he-goats for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
16:6. Aaron is to offer his own bull of sin offering, to make expiation for himself and for his household.
16:7. Aaron shall take the two he-goats and let them stand before the LORD at the entrance of the Tent of Meeting;
16:8. and he shall place lots upon the two goats, one marked for the LORD and the other marked for Azazel.
16:9. Aaron shall bring forward the goat designated by lot for the LORD, which he is to offer as a sin offering;
16:10. while the goat designated by lot for Azazel shall be left standing alive before the LORD, to make expiation with it and to send it off to the wilderness for Azazel.
16:11. Aaron shall then offer his bull of sin offering, to make expiation for himself and his household. He shall slaughter his bull of sin offering,
16:12. and he shall take a panful of glowing coals scooped from the altar before the LORD, and two handfuls of finely ground aromatic incense, and bring this behind the curtain.
16:13. He shall put the incense on the fire before the LORD, so that the cloud from the incense screens the cover that is over [the Ark of] the Pact, lest he die.
16:14. He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger over the cover on the east side; and in front of the cover he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.
16:15. He shall then slaughter the people’s goat of sin offering, bring its blood behind the curtain, and do with its blood as he has done with the blood of the bull: he shall sprinkle it over the cover and in front of the cover.
16:16. Thus he shall purge the Shrine of the uncleanness and transgression of the Israelites, whatever their sins; and he shall do the same for the Tent of Meeting, which abides with them in the midst of their uncleanness.
16:17. When he goes in to make expiation in the Shrine, nobody else shall be in the Tent of Meeting until he comes out.
When he has made expiation for himself and his household, and for the whole congregation of Israel,
16:18. he shall go out to the altar that is before the LORD and purge it: he shall take some of
the blood of the bull and of the goat and apply it to each of the horns of the altar;
16:19. and the rest of the blood he shall sprinkle on it with his finger seven times. Thus he shall cleanse it of the uncleanness of the Israelites and consecrate it.
16:20. When he has finished purging the Shrine, the Tent of Meeting, and the altar, the live goat shall be brought forward.
16:21. Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat and confess over it all the iniquities and transgressions of the Israelites, whatever their sins, putting them on the head of the goat; and it shall be sent off to the wilderness through a designated man.
16:22. Thus the goat shall carry on it all their iniquities to an inaccessible region; and the goat shall be set free in the wilderness.
16:23. And Aaron shall go into the Tent of Meeting, take off the linen vestments that he put on when he entered the Shrine, and leave them there.
16:24. He shall bathe his body in water in the holy precinct and put on his vestments; then he shall come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people, making expiation for himself and for the people.
16:25. The fat of the sin offering he shall turn into smoke on the altar.
16:26. He who set the Azazel-goat free shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water; after that he may re-enter the camp.
16:27. The bull of sin offering and the goat of sin offering whose blood was brought in to purge the Shrine shall be taken outside the camp; and their hides, flesh, and dung shall be consumed in fire.
16:28. He who burned them shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water; after that he may re-enter the camp.
16:29. And this shall be to you a law for all time: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall practice self- denial; and you shall do no manner of work, neither the citizen nor the alien who resides among you.
16:30. For on this day atonement shall be made for you to cleanse you of all your sins; you shall be clean before the LORD.
16:31. It shall be a sabbath of complete rest for you, and you shall practice self-denial; it is a law for all time.
16:32. The priest who has been anointed and ordained to serve as priest in place of his father shall make expiation. He shall put on the linen vestments, the sacral vestments.
16:33. He shall purge the innermost Shrine; he shall purge the Tent of Meeting and the altar; and he shall make expiation for the priests and for all the people of the congregation.
16:34. This shall be to you a law for all time: to make atonement for the Israelites for their sins once a year.
And Moses did as the LORD commanded him.
This English translation is reprinted with permission from Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures published by the Jewish Publication Society.
Not only are you in error re the doctrine of righteousness, but the offering/s
J.
Wow, another zinger ... I strongly disagree.
Isa 53:2 For [the Servant of God] grew up before Him like a tender plant, and like a root out of dry ground; He has no form or comeliness [royal, kingly pomp], that we should look at Him, and no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected and forsaken by men, a Man of sorrows and pains, and acquainted with grief and sickness; and like One from Whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we did not appreciate His worth or have any esteem for Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. [Mat_8:17]
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all. [1Pe_2:24-25]
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, [yet when] He was afflicted, He was submissive and opened not His mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; and as for His generation, who among them considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living [stricken to His death] for the transgression of my [Isaiah's] people, to whom the stroke was due?
Isa 53:9 And they assigned Him a grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth. [Mat_27:57-60; 1Pe_2:22-23]
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief and made Him sick. When You and He make His life an offering for sin [and He has risen from the dead, in time to come], He shall see His [spiritual] offspring, He shall prolong His days, and the will and pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see [the fruit] of the travail of His soul and be satisfied; by His knowledge of Himself [which He possesses and imparts to others] shall My [uncompromisingly] righteous One, My Servant, justify many and make many righteous (upright and in right standing with God), for He shall bear their iniquities and their guilt [with the consequences, says the Lord].
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], and He shall divide the spoil with the mighty, because He poured out His life unto death, and [He let Himself] be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors; yet He bore [and took away] the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors (the rebellious). [Luk_22:37]
AMP
Maybe epi did not read this passage.
Isa 53:1 WHO HAS believed (trusted in, relied upon, and clung to) our message [of that which was revealed to us]? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been disclosed? [Joh_12:38-41; Rom_10:16]
Isa 53:2 For [the Servant of God] grew up before Him like a tender plant, and like a root out of dry ground; He has no form or comeliness [royal, kingly pomp], that we should look at Him, and no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected and forsaken by men, a Man of sorrows and pains, and acquainted with grief and sickness; and like One from Whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we did not appreciate His worth or have any esteem for Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. [Mat_8:17]
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has made to light upon Him the guilt and iniquity of us all. [1Pe_2:24-25]
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, [yet when] He was afflicted, He was submissive and opened not His mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; and as for His generation, who among them considered that He was cut off out of the land of the living [stricken to His death] for the transgression of my [Isaiah's] people, to whom the stroke was due?
Isa 53:9 And they assigned Him a grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in His death, although He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth. [Mat_27:57-60; 1Pe_2:22-23]
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief and made Him sick. When You and He make His life an offering for sin [and He has risen from the dead, in time to come], He shall see His [spiritual] offspring, He shall prolong His days, and the will and pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see [the fruit] of the travail of His soul and be satisfied; by His knowledge of Himself [which He possesses and imparts to others] shall My [uncompromisingly] righteous One, My Servant, justify many and make many righteous (upright and in right standing with God), for He shall bear their iniquities and their guilt [with the consequences, says the Lord].
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great [kings and rulers], and He shall divide the spoil with the mighty, because He poured out His life unto death, and [He let Himself] be regarded as a criminal and be numbered with the transgressors; yet He bore [and took away] the sin of many and made intercession for the transgressors (the rebellious). [Luk_22:37]
AMP
Maybe epi did not read this passage.
53:10, 11a Yet the LORD saw fit to bruise Him, to put Him to grief. When His soul has been made an offering for sin, He will see His posterity, that is, all those who believe on Him, He shall prolong His days, living in the power of an endless life. All God's purposes shall be realized through Him. Seeing the multitudes of those who have been redeemed by His blood He will be amply satisfied.
53:11b "By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many." This may mean that His knowledge of the Father's will led Him to the cross, and it is by His death and resurrection that He can reckon believers to be righteous. Or it may mean "by the knowledge of Him," that is, it is by coming to know Him that men are justified (Joh_17:3). In either case, it is through His bearing their iniquities that justification is possible for the "many."
The last stanza of Thomas Chisholm's hymn, quoted above, reads triumphantly:
Who can number His generation?
Who shall declare all the triumphs of His Cross?
Millions, dead, now live again,
Myriads follow in His train!
Victorious Lord, victorious Lord,
Victorious Lord and coming King!
53:12 Another result of His finished work is that Jehovah will divide Him a portion with the great, that is, with the saints, whose only greatness lies in their connection with Him. And He shall divide the spoil with the strong; here again the strong are those believers who are weak in themselves but strong in the Lord.
Four reasons for His glorious triumph are given. (1) He poured out His soul unto death; (2) He was numbered with the transgressors, that is, the two thieves; (3) He bore the sin of many; (4) He made intercession for the transgressors. David Baron comments:
The verb . . . yaph'gia` ("made intercession") is an instance of the imperfect or indefinite future, and expresses a work begun, but not yet ended. Its most striking fulfilment, as Delitzsch observes, was the prayer of the crucified Saviour, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." But this work of intercession which He began on the cross He still continues at the right hand of God, where He is now seated, a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance unto Israel and the forgiveness of sins.
On the paradoxes of this great passage as a whole, Moody comments:
Despised, yet accepted and adored. Poor, yet rich. To die, yet to live. The Rabbis said there must be a double Messiah to fulfil this chapter.
God did not send the Messiah to the cross?
Read Isa 53 again, this time slowly.
Why God Sent Jesus: To Do Away with Sin
Hebrews 9:26 says, “He has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.”
The sacrifices of the old Levitical system were insufficient to take away sin. But Jesus offered the perfect sacrifice, once for all time. With the shedding of His blood on the cross, never again would animals need to die as our substitute. When God sent Jesus into the world, the Son of God took on human flesh and provided a better sacrifice for sin and a better covenant with God’s people.
God sent Jesus not to deny the fact of sin or help us forget about our sin. Denials and cover-ups were not His purpose. God wanted to do away with sin once and for all. In Christ, God forgave sin and released us from its penalty. Through faith in the Son, we have full deliverance from guilt. Not only that, but we have deliverance from the hold of sin itself, true salvation, and real peace with God. “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1).
Our religious actions cannot put away sin. Neither can feeling sorry, practicing self-denial, or holy living. Not even our death can get rid of sin. Sin is a blot on our soul, a stain in the fabric of our being that can only be washed away by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Jesus alone can put away our sin (1 Peter 2:24). It’s one of the reasons God sent Him.
Why God Sent Jesus: To Destroy the Works of the Devil
Another biblical reason that God sent Jesus into the world is spelled out in 1 John 3:8: “The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.” It was a divine mission, executed with the precision of a well-planned military strike. Two thousand years ago, the Son of God landed on foreign soil, behind enemy lines, with a mission to demolish something, and He succeeded in His objective. He wrecked all that the devil had been doing.
The devil has been working to build a kingdom for himself, and Jesus came to dissolve the framework, making everything Satan has ever done a worthless waste of time. The devil had made his sand castle, and Jesus was the tide.
The devil’s works that Jesus destroyed include deception (Jesus is the Truth); sin (Jesus is our Righteousness); and death (Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life). Jesus accomplished His wrecking of Satan’s work by the fact of His holiness (Matthew 4:1–11; John 14:30), the excellence of His sacrifice (John 12:31; Colossians 2:15; Hebrews 2:14–15; 1 John 2:2), and the action of His grace (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 3:4; Romans 16:20).
The devil had a plan for Lazarus, and it did not involve his being resurrected from the dead (John 11). The devil had a plan for Saul of Tarsus, and it did not include his becoming a missionary to the Gentiles (Acts 9). The devil had a plan for the Philippian jailer, and it did not include living through the night and being saved and baptized with his entire family (Acts 16). Satan’s plans have gone awry, and they will continue to as God’s will is accomplished in and through us. As for the devil’s future, he will eventually be sent to the place of torture he dreads (Matthew 8:28–29; Revelation 20:10).
Why God Sent Jesus: To Provide an Example of a Holy Life
In the context of suffering for righteousness’ sake, Peter tells us that Christ has left us “an example, that [we] should follow in his steps” (1 Peter 2:21). All those who follow Christ ought to conduct themselves just as Jesus conducted Himself (1 John 2:6). We are to be holy as God is holy (1 Peter 1:16), and Jesus is our example.
Jesus handled temptation, and He did so without sin (Luke 4:1–13; Hebrews 4:15). Jesus lived blamelessly, being holy in word (John 8:45–46) and holy in deed (1 Peter 2:22; Hebrews 7:26). Jesus nurtured a prayer life (Luke 5:16), and He relied on the power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1, 14).
God sent Jesus into the world, and we praise Him for it. We are eternally grateful to our Lord who, at the end of His ministry, was able to look to heaven and say, “I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do” (John 17:4). Mission accomplished.
Tetelestai!
Lol. He may have put me on ignore but he certainly isn’t ignoring me if he’s still talking about me.Insert five very large, sarcastic, eye rolling emojis here for the man who ignores people while talking about them. He can piously wear the emojis on his jacket lapel and challenge me to a fake-pious duel.
You say you believe Jesus is BOTH God and man...yet when Jesus speaks as a man, you deny He is God. When Jesus speaks as God, you deny He is a man...You can't wrap your head around He being both at the same time.
This may come as a surprise to you, but, Jesus ALWAYS did what was pleasing to the Father....AND He had to learn obedience as a man.
Becoming obedient...was as a man. But Jesus was ALSO God offering Himself.
So your arguments simply show you are unable to grasp who Jesus really is in His duality.
Have you ever heard of the Lion AND the Lamb? Maybe you sing the songs but are not comprehending? The Lion is Jesus as God, and the Lamb is Jesus as human. Jesus is the Lamb of God as He presents His body to sinful men to be mistreated by them.
God doesn't mistreat His Son...men do. And you also are not respecting who God is. You are disrespecting the relationship between the Father and the Son.
I thank you for your concern. But you are misrepresenting your own lack of understanding for God's ways with my reasoning faculties.
You are not understanding the significance of this. The Jews see Azazel as the devil. The "escape goat."
One goat is FOR the Lord...and is sacrificed. The other has its sins laid on its head and cast away into the wilderness.
If you could understand this prophetically, you would see Jesus and Jesus Barabbas being presented to the people. Jesus Barabbas, means literally...Jesus, son of the Father. They have the same name.
So we are presented with 2 options...one "goat" for sacrifice and the other to "escape."After a little more reading and a little discernment, we see Jesus being sacrificed and Barabbas being released.
With EVEN more discernment, we see that Yom Kippur...the day of atonement...is actually a picture of God judging His people. Like the parable of the 10 virgins where they are split into 2 groups.
The ones who have been sacrificed TO the Lord are taken...and those who were not sacrificed are cast into outer darkness to wander there for ever.
You understand neither. When someone is that deeply ignorant of God's ways...the truth seems too fantastic to believe. But, if you stopped your religious outer man from reacting in the flesh...you could also learn righteousness.
You would have this to read...He was rejected by God.
Look at what it says in Isaiah...then glance back at what I wrote..then repeat that a few times until it sinks in. it may take you doing this several hundred times to shake off the religious conditioning you have received.
We imputed Him not. We esteemed Him not. Who? We did.
People continue to ignorantly consider Jesus to have been afflicted by God rather than men.
Look at how you react to these threads...you support your own version of peace...with the carnal mind intact. That's all the Jews were doing when they put an end to Jesus. Their peace was a carnal peace...a religious peace. But Jesus was despised because He brought the UNSETTLING truth.
We become ashamed of ourselves for what the flesh did to Jesus...so we forsake the flesh.
You would be wise to do likewise.
...made to light upon HIMSELF the iniquity of us all. Jesus bore our sinfulness onto Himself.
This is Jesus showing us how to be obedient as MEN. Many saints have followed Jesus down this road.
The people transgressed....Jesus took on the transgression of the people.
It was the will of the Lord (Jesus as God) to bruise HIMSELF...
(You would have to understand the duality of the nature of Jesus as being BOTH God and man. )
Here this shifts to the Father who is speaking...
There is reading...and there is reading comprehension.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Don't you consider the disciples as an elite group, who studied with God 24/7 for 3 1/2 years _ knowledgable? And then at Pentecost receiving the Holy Spirit, they were fully equiped to spread the Good news to the world.
So there are two knowledgable groups to choose from aren't there? One filled with the Spirit and the other who does not know Him. One who spiritually discerns scripture and the other who at best has a superficial knowledge with no discerment.
We choose which ones to listen to. I choose those who are baptized in the name of THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. See what I did; I was careful not to mention the T ____
word so you wouldn't get upset and report me.
I don’t report anyone because I’m upset. I’m very calm. I report them for breaking the rule. The rule was made. Deal with it.
We are all free to listen to who we will.
Way off
Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief and made Him sick. When You and He make His life an offering for sin [and He has risen from the dead, in time to come], He shall see His [spiritual] offspring, He shall prolong His days, and the will and pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
....conveniently leaving this verse out, IT WAS THE WILL OF THE FATHER HIM [JESUS]
Yet it pleased the Lord - the secret of His sufferings. They were voluntarily borne by Messiah, in order that thereby He might ’do Yahweh’s will’ (Joh_6:38; Heb_10:7; Heb_10:9), as to man’s redemption; so at the end of the verse, "the pleasure of the Lord shah prosper in His hand."
Bruise - Hebrew, dak’ow (H1792) (see Isa_53:5, the same Hebrew, "He was bruised for our iniquities"); Gen_3:15, was hereby fulfilled though the Hebrew word yªshuwpkaa (H7779) for "bruise," there, is not the one used here. The Hebrew there may mean to overwhelm with darkness. Messiah’s time of darkness was temporary (Mat_27:45), answering to the bruising of His heel. Satan’s is to be eternal, answering to the bruising of his head (Isa_50:10).
He hath put him to grief - recapitulating Isa_53:4, "He hath borne our griefs" (the same Hebrew as here, hechªliy (H2470)).
When thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin ( taasiym (H7760), second person singular masculine) - rather, as mary. (Hebrew, third person feminine), ’when His soul (i:e., He) shall have made an offering for sin.’ In the English version the change of person is harsh: from Yahweh, addressed in the second person (Isa_53:10), to
Yahweh speaking in the first person in Isa_53:11. The margin rightly makes the prophet, in the name of Yahweh Himself to speak in this verse. Thus translated, the clause indicates the Saviour’s voluntary laying down of His life (Joh_10:17-18; Eph_5:2; Heb_9:14). So the Vulgate.
Offering for sin - (Rom_3:25; 1Jn_2:2; 1Jn_4:10); asham, sin, with reference to its guilt and penalty. So a sin offering 2Co_5:21 accords with the English version, "He (the Father) hath made Him (the Son) to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."
He shall see his seed - really His seed, not in mere figure, because they derive all their life from Him (1Pe_1:3). His spiritual posterity shall be numerous (Psa_22:30); nay, more, though He must die He shall see them. A numerous posterity was accounted a high blessing among the Hebrews; still more so for one to live to see them (Gen_48:11; Psa_128:6).
He shall prolong his days - also esteemed a special blessing among the Jews (Psa_91:16), in contrast to His past shortening of life as one "cut off out of the land of the living." Messiah shall, after death, rise again to an endless life (Psa_21:4; Hos_6:2; Rom_6:9).
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand - that "pleasure of the Lord" to which the opening words of the verse allude: "it pleased the Lord to bruise Him." Compare Col_1:19-20; Eph_1:9-10; Isa_52:13, margin.
מִי הֶאֱמִין לִשְׁמֻעָתֵנוּ וּזְרוֹעַ יְהוָה עַל־מִי נִגְלָֽתָה׃
וַיַּעַל כַּיּוֹנֵק לְפָנָיו וְכַשֹּׁרֶשׁ מֵאֶרֶץ צִיָּה לֹא־תֹאַר לוֹ וְלֹא הָדָר וְנִרְאֵהוּ וְלֹֽא־מַרְאֶה וְנֶחְמְדֵֽהוּ׃
נִבְזֶה וַחֲדַל אִישִׁים אִישׁ מַכְאֹבוֹת וִידוּעַ חֹלִי וּכְמַסְתֵּר פָּנִים מִמֶּנּוּ נִבְזֶה וְלֹא חֲשַׁבְנֻֽהוּ׃
אָכֵן חֳלָיֵנוּ הוּא נָשָׂא וּמַכְאֹבֵינוּ סְבָלָם וַאֲנַחְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻהוּ נָגוּעַ מֻכֵּה אֱלֹהִים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה׃
וְהוּא מְחֹלָל מִפְּשָׁעֵנוּ מְדֻכָּא מֵעֲוֺנֹתֵינוּ מוּסַר שְׁלוֹמֵנוּ עָלָיו וּבַחֲבֻרָתוֹ נִרְפָּא־לָֽנוּ׃
כֻּלָּנוּ כַּצֹּאן תָּעִינוּ אִישׁ לְדַרְכּוֹ פָּנִינוּ וַֽיהוָה הִפְגִּיעַ בּוֹ אֵת עֲוֺן כֻּלָּֽנוּ׃
נִגַּשׂ וְהוּא נַעֲנֶה וְלֹא יִפְתַּח־פִּיו כַּשֶּׂה לַטֶּבַח יוּבָל וּכְרָחֵל לִפְנֵי גֹזְזֶיהָ נֶאֱלָמָה וְלֹא יִפְתַּח פִּֽיו׃
מֵעֹצֶר וּמִמִּשְׁפָּט לֻקָּח וְאֶת־דּוֹרוֹ מִי יְשׂוֹחֵחַ כִּי נִגְזַר מֵאֶרֶץ חַיִּים מִפֶּשַׁע עַמִּי נֶגַע לָֽמוֹ׃
וַיִּתֵּן אֶת־רְשָׁעִים קִבְרוֹ וְאֶת־עָשִׁיר בְּמֹתָיו עַל לֹא־חָמָס עָשָׂה וְלֹא מִרְמָה בְּפִֽיו׃
וַיהוָה חָפֵץ דַּכְּאוֹ הֶֽחֱלִי אִם־תָּשִׂים אָשָׁם נַפְשׁוֹ יִרְאֶה זֶרַע יַאֲרִיךְ יָמִים וְחֵפֶץ יְהוָה בְּיָדוֹ יִצְלָֽח׃
מֵעֲמַל נַפְשׁוֹ יִרְאֶה יִשְׂבָּע בְּדַעְתּוֹ יַצְדִּיק צַדִּיק עַבְדִּי לָֽרַבִּים וַעֲוֺנֹתָם הוּא יִסְבֹּֽל׃
לָכֵן אֲחַלֶּק־לוֹ בָרַבִּים וְאֶת־עֲצוּמִים יְחַלֵּק שָׁלָל תַּחַת אֲשֶׁר הֶעֱרָה לַמָּוֶת נַפְשׁוֹ וְאֶת־פֹּשְׁעִים נִמְנָה וְהוּא חֵטְא־רַבִּים נָשָׂא וְלַפֹּשְׁעִים יַפְגִּֽיעַ׃ ס
הוָה חָפֵץ...chaphets
וַיהוָה חָפֵץ דַּכְּאוֹ הֶֽחֱלִי אִם־תָּשִׂים אָשָׁם נַפְשׁוֹ יִרְאֶה זֶרַע יַאֲרִיךְ יָמִים וְחֵפֶץ יְהוָה בְּיָדוֹ יִצְלָֽח׃
...of which you are in denial of and everyone that disagrees with the mighty episkopos and his hirelings are cascaded as being carnal, unconverted, in the flesh, ..not only are you in error re righteousness, but this beautiful passage in Isa. 53.
I have a feeling the Mods will be after you should you persist in twisting and perverting the hagios D'var, you are a loose cannonball with no accountability.
Enjoy your day
J.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
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But what about the Holy Spirit, another Helper, our Comforter, sent by the Father and the Son, Who teaches, guides, counsels, leads, gives truth, hears, speaks, is omninscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, bears witness to Christ and glorifies Him, is wise, gives gifts, baptizes us, makes promises, loves us, sanctifies us, justifies us, convicts us of sin, edifies us ( that is to say those who have a relationship with Him and He dwells inside them) ... ???
Don't twist and distort what I believe. Jesus is God, He is the Creator. Yes it was Jesus will and the Father's will to die for our sins. Well, at least you believe that. So it's a duo instead of a trio for you.
But what about the Holy Spirit, another Helper, our Comforter, sent by the Father and the Son, Who teaches, guides, counsels, leads, gives truth, hears, speaks, is omninscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, bears witness to Christ and glorifies Him, is wise, gives gifts, baptizes us, makes promises, loves us, sanctifies us, justifies us, convicts us of sin, edifies us ( that is to say those who have a relationship with Him and He dwells inside them) ... ???
Then you'll have to explain how believers in the wilderness are a SIN OFFERING AND ATONEMENT for the sins of Israel. I had to go back and read Lev. 16 to refresh my memory on the details of what is written.
People will read anything they want into scriptures and split hairs all day long to support even one erroneous thought. Sins of the nation were laid on the scapegoat and then it was sent outside the camp to die, just as Jesus was crucified outside the camp, outside Jerusalem TO MAKE ATONEMENT for our sins. That is why we also are to follow Him there, outside the camp, to die to ourselves in the wilderness and become a living sacrifice. The other goat allowed to live, represents the Israel of God, and all believers, imputed to be without sin/spot and spared from the death we all deserve, because the scapegoat died in our place! The gospel is so beautifully illustrated in the OT sacrifices, once we have eyes to see.
You do understand that GOD WAS IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Him, NOT IMPUTING THEIR SINS TO THEM....? Yes of course it was men who did the deed in betraying Jesus into the hands of sinners, and who did the actual deed of crucifying but it was GOD's plan all along who worked everything that He knew would happen by His foreknowledge into His plan of salvation. That is why it is GOD we thank and praise for salvation, not men. Jesus even said to Pilate that he would not have power to do anything to Him except it be given him from heaven. It was the FATHER's will that Jesus go to the cross....Jesus saying in Gethsemane, not my will but thine be done, otherwise He could have avoided the cross. Hebrews explains in several places that Jesus offered Himself to be a sacrifice.....and GOD WAS IN CHRIST. It was GOD who GAVE His only begotten son.
I'm telling you brother that the carnal mind is indeed ENMITY with God and even will go so far as to dismantle and deny the very gospel to support its own thinking. How the mind of Christ and Holy Spirit works is by ILLUMINATING the scrips, not by dismantling and over-analyzing them. He just gives us the light to see by, without too much effort of our own...we just need to be at REST, our carnal mind at rest, and RECEIVE from Him and it's never complicated. Be STILL and know that He is God. And this is why all glory is to Him, not to us, because what do we have that we didn't RECEIVE from HIM?
It's always very telling when disagreement and simple discussion on a forum from behind a computer screen is equated to persecution on the level of what Jesus and the prophets endured, goodness gracious!
The rabbis believe that Isaiah 53 speaks of Yisrael as the sin bearer, Asham, and this passage is not about the crucified Messiah, also they believe in two messiah's, messiah ben David, and messiah ben Joseph
Maybe epi is following their train of thought....
Epi made some pretty provocative statements, not found in scripture.
Poor, very poor eisegesis.
Do me a favor, you and your disciples go your way, I'll go wherever the Lord wants me to.
What a labyrinth the human mind can be.....lost and dizzy down a long dark rabbit hole with so many twists and turns. I'm glad the Lord makes it so simple we have to become as little children to receive it..... we don't have to break a sweat with human effort, and in fact breaking a sweat is against His will and for good reason. (Linen comes to mind.) :)
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