How To Know There Are 5 Beast Kingdoms in Daniel

[stormymonday]

The toes MINGLED with Iron and Clay.

The word MIXED OR MINGLED used to describe the toes mingled with iron and clay is the Aramaic word "arab." It means mixed and denotes an Arabian or Arabia. (Gesenius) This word is not associate with ROME, ITALY.

View attachment 28004
Daniel 2:43
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar much more about the iron and clay than any of the other kingdoms because it depicts the end-time kingdom that the Lord returns to destroy. The word MIXED actually describes the people, the origin, and the geographical area from which the end-time anti-Christ would arise. The description of the iron and clay describes the Arab/Muslim world far better than Rome or the EU.

"And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken."

"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

"And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise."

Daniel says the kingdom would, 'subdue all things, be divided and not cleave to one another, partly strong and partly broken, and mixed (arab/intermarried) with the seed of men. Islam has subdued nearly every religion in the Middle East.

That's not true of Rome or the EU but is certainly true of Arab Islamic tribes and clans scattered across the countries of the Middle East. Rome, Italy, and the EU, have strong alliances and are all a peaceful coalition of nations. They're more unified than the Arab World which isn't united at all! Arab/Muslim countries throughout the Mid-East and Northern Africa have always been divided.

There are about 250 different tribes and clans in Northern Africa alone. Iraq has several hundred. They are proud of their heritage and can be your best friend and worse enemy at the same time. Iron and clay, divided, partly strong and partly broken, not cleaved to one another, "mixed with the seed of men," perfectly describes the Arabs. Both iron and clay are brittle, and they don't mix. I believe the iron and clay represents the Shia and Sunni sects of Islam. The two horned beast of Revelation 13 also represents the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam.

Not only do Arab/Islamic countries have fragile alliances they have mixed, crossed, and broken up into hundreds of different tribes and clans scattered across the entire Mid-East including Northern Africa.

Their history, the scriptures, Ishmael as their father, and today's world proves they are divided, uncleaved, intermarried, i.e., "mixed with the seed of men." The Arab world has never "cleaved to one another." The NLT actually uses the word intermarried instead of mixed. The word Arab is today a variation of the word 'crossed.'

Every verse of end time bible prophecy points to Arab, Persian, and Islamic countries. NOT ONE VERSE points to Rome.

 

[stormymonday]

Is Daniel 7 a historical repeat of Daniel 2? Namely the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome? There are serious flaws in this interpretation that needs to be discussed.

"Why would God find it necessary to repeat the same message in two different visions by the same prophet? Why repeat the same sequence of kingdoms of Daniel 2 in chapter 7? Were there shortcomings in Daniel 2 that required more explanation in Ch. 7?"

In chapter 7 Daniel doesn't specify anything about the origin of the fourth beast. However, there's a little horn that comes up among the other ten - upon the ONE HEAD of the beast - and that little horn is said to come from GREECE in the following chapter 8 - NOT ROME. Many people have told me the 'little horn' of Daniel 7 is Rome and the little horn of Daniel 8 is Greece." With zero evidence that Rome is Daniel 7's fourth 'terrible and dreadful' beast.

Daniel 7:7 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, DREADFUL AND TERRIBLE,"

Important
Daniel chapter 7 was written in the first year of Belshazzar who can be said that he was the last king of Babylon, and about 35 years after Daniel's vision of the great statue in chapter 2.

Interpreters say that the Lion of Daniel 7 is ancient Babylon. Think about this...

How can the lion be ancient Babylon when the Empire had already risen some 50 years before and was on its way out when Daniel 7 was written. Why would Daniel prophesy about a kingdom RISING that had already risen and was in existence for about 50 years AND soon to end? Atheist Kyle William's caught onto this blunder and used it to debunk the bible by calling Daniel a false prophet, which he would certainly be since he prophesied about a kingdom RISING that had already risen and been in existence for 50 years!

A PROPHET CANNOT PROPHESY ABOUT SOMETHING ALREADY IN EXISTENCE WITHOUT TRULY BEING A FALSE PROPHET!

Most interpreters think that the vision of wings being plucked off and the heart of a man given to it refers to Nebuchadnezzar going mad and being restored 7 years later. That's unlikely too because Nebuchadnezzar went mad about 20 years before Daniel had the vision!

AGAIN! Daniel cannot prophesy about something that already occurred!
The lion could be today's Iraq, England, or? Some think the wings being plucked off could represent the U.S. military leaving Iraq. Some people think the plucked wings is England or the US. I don't know for sure who or what kingdoms the lion, bear, and leopard beast represent, but again - I know they are not a historical progression of ancient empires, or the same ones depicted in Daniel 2. These four are ALL end-time kingdoms.

All four beast of Daniel 7 are end time empires.

Daniel 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

Daniel sees the four winds around the great sea (the sea represents troublesome times, and usually refers to the Mediterranean. This implies that these four beasts 'rise' in troublesome times.

They're different from one another and very different from the vision of the statue in chapter 2 where those kingdoms are parts of a man, and here they are four separate and distinct beast. These four are figurative of 4 end time kingdoms that exist on earth in the last days. They may even be competing to dominate the region around the Mediterranean (or beyond) as the three appear to have been, "plucked up by the roots" by the 4th beast....Globalism???

Very important...

The word BEFORE in 7:7 says this beast "was diverse from all the beasts that were BEFORE it; and it had ten horns." The Hebrew word for "before" is ‘qodam’ which means "in front of, in the presence of, not 'historically before' as is commonly interpreted. This means the first three empires will be in the presence of or stand before the fourth 'dreadful and terrible' beast. They are all end-time kingdoms.

Proof of this is how the word 'qodam' is used elsewhere in Daniel. The word means "in front of or in the presence of" NOT historically before.

"God's hand is "stretched out before Him" - meaning in front of Him."

"Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in 'before' the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation."

"Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation."

"Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible."

"This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king."

"Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up."

"Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Then they brought these men before the king."

"Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof."

"But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,.."

Then was Daniel brought in before the king. And the king spake and said unto Daniel, Art thou that Daniel, which art of the children of the captivity of Judah, whom the king my father brought out of Jewry?

Then Daniel answered and said before the king, Let thy gifts be to thyself, and give thy rewards to another; yet I will read the writing unto the king, and make known to him the interpretation.

And for the majesty that he gave him, all people, nations, and languages, trembled and feared before him: whom he would he slew; and whom he would he kept alive; and whom he would he set up; and whom he would he put down.

But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee,....

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

Then these men assembled, and found Daniel praying and making supplication before his God.

Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king's decree; Hast thou not signed a decree,....

Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting: neither were instruments of musick brought before him: and his sleep went from him.

My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.

I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel:

If Daniel wanted to indicate 'before in time' he had several other words he could have used.

Most interpreters believe Daniel's 4th beast is Rome, but my opinion is it just doesn't fit Rome or the EU. Verse 21 says, "I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;" Does Rome war with the saints today? Islam wars with the saints on a daily basis - NOT Rome, the EU, or Catholicism.

Conclusion
The lion kingdom cannot be ancient Babylon because it has risen some 50 before Daniel 7 was written, and all four beasts in Daniel 7 are end-time beast and are all on earth at the same time.

So, who are the four beast of Daniel 7? I don't think anyone knows for sure. One thing for sure, they are all end-time kingdoms. I have my guesses!

 

[Trekson]

I didn't recognize it for a long time, and I once believed the Book of Daniel was only revealing 4 beasts, with Rome as the final one. If you make the mistake of joining the part of the beast statue of the feet of part clay mixed with part iron as part of the legs of iron, then you will miss this point.

The "legs of iron" (old pagan Roman empire), and the "feet part of iron and part of clay" are two separate beasts (final Endtime world beast for today, not Rome). Because 'iron' is mentioned again with the feet of part clay and part iron, some believe it means the old Roman empire is to be revived for the end. Some even wrongly give it as being the main head in control at the end, but that is not what is shown here in Daniel 2.

1. "head of fine gold" = Babylon empire under Nebuchadnezzar
2. "his breast and his arms of silver = Medo-Perisa empire
3. "his belly and his thighs of brass" = Alexander's Grecia
4. "legs of iron" = pagan Roman empire
5. "his feet part of iron and part of clay" = FINAL beast for the very END of this world, still coming together today.

Dan 2:34-35
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
KJV

That "stone" cut out without hands represents our Lord Jesus Christ at His future coming to end the beast kingdoms of this world once and for all time. What does this mean for these 5 PIECES of the beast statue which represent beast kingdoms? Would ALL of those beast kingdom pieces be available to FALL when Jesus as that "stone" comes to smite that beast upon it's WHAT? Upon his feet that were of iron and clay!

What is God's Word pointing to that with smiting? He is showing these pieces of the beast statue ALL EXISTING TOGETHER FOR THE VERY END, with that 5th beast of the feet of clay and iron supporting it! WHY... is God using those different materials to represent those beasts? What's His Message with that?...

What's the heaviest material in that beast statue? The very top, the head of gold. Gold as a natural element is very heavy compared to those other elements mentioned there. Then silver is next, and then brass, then iron, and finally the feet of clay mixed with iron. What is the problem with clay mixed with iron? IT DOES NOT MIX. So what God is showing us it that final beast kingdom of the feet of ten toes made up of clay mixed with iron, is the WEAKEST part of the beast statue! And naturally, a stone smitting its feet is going to bring the WHOLE BEAST PIECES, "together", down to the ground. Because verse 35 above shows ALL those FIVE pieces together when that smitting happens, that reveals what?

Dan 2:41-45
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
KJV

The above Daniel 2:41-45 verses declare the same thing, the existing of FIVE pieces of the beast statue for the END. And that is setup all the way UNTIL Jesus' future coming to smite that final beast upon its feet of ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay. And only then will Christ's Kingdom be setup on this earth instead with Jesus' future return. Count the number of pieces there again. It is Five, not four.

That is revealing that for the very END of this world, that final beast system of the feet of iron mixed with clay will support a REVIVAL of ALL those PREVIOUS beast systems! So it ain't just gonna' be Rome back to pagan Rome, but also a melting together of ALL the world's religions in one boat for the coming pseudo-Christ to be God over.

I think most students of the bible knows about the 5 beast kingdoms, the question is how to identify it and many believe it will be a "revived (western) Roman empire" consisting of many nations of Europe w/ papal involvement. But, imo, they couldn't be farther from the truth. As the bible teaches in Dan. 9:26. The "people of the prince" weren't Romans. They were conscripted soldiers from the nations surrounding Israel at the time so what we are to look for is a coalition of nations from the "eastern" part of the Roman empire and of the nations of the future beast kingdom, Israel will be one of them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

What happened during John's time has no bearing on what happens 2,000 years in the future. There's nothing about Rome's identity that's a 'mystery'. And Rome no longer persecutes prophets and apostles.

It certainly does if you take the position I do, that the 4th Kingdom was Rome and is the last Kingdom in present history! The imperial Roman tradition has remained in Europe ever since the collapse of Rome in 476 AD. The fall of Rome did not spell the end of Roman culture and militancy. The rise of the Holy Roman Empire proved this, as well as the fact the Eastern portion of the old Roman Empire continued up until 1453 AD. And there the Roman imperial tradition continued beyond Constantinople, as well.

The sequence of kingdoms I believe in Daniel 2 predates the one that claims Rome is the legs of iron. It goes back to the time of Josephus which is...
Babylon = Head of Gold
Mede's = Arms of silver
Persian' s = Thighs of brass
Greeks = Legs of iron.

The reformers were convinced that since Rome crucified Christ, persecuted 1st century Christians, destroyed Jerusalem and Herod's temple, and persecuted Christians for defecting from the faith, they believed Rome would also emerge as the end-time beast of Daniel and Revelation. I believe the reformers were wrong about this and Daniel 2 and 7 as well.

It wasn't just the Reformers. The Church Fathers--at least some of them, held to this view, as well. So we're talking about a traditional interpretation of the 4th Kingdom as old as the Church itself.

We agree that in Daniel 2, Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon is the head of gold. After Babylon...

Daniel 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Most people believe that Medo-Persia form the arms of silver or the 'inferior kingdom.'

The only thing said about the second kingdom is that it's inferior to Babylon. Was Medo-Persia the inferior kingdom? Absolutely not! The Median Empire was not only much smaller it was also short lived enduring only 6 years. Some interpreters claim this is a cultural or religious inferiority. The word 'inferior' proves otherwise.
The word INFERIOR...

Yes, I'm familiar with your view. I don't think the sense of "inferior" determines clearly what Kingdom is meant. It more likely indicates that as the various metals cheapen, the kingdoms cheapen.

Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah's prophecies ascribe the conquest and destruction of Babylon to the Darius and the Medes, NOT Cyrus the Persian.

Who led the Medo-Persian Kingdom to defeat Babylon is not significant, if the Medes and the Persians are viewed as a dual Kingdom. As I said I'm familiar with your view. I tend to believe Nebuchadnezzar's Dream and Daniel's Dream were complementary prophecies designed to confirm one another. The 4 Kingdoms in both dreams represented the same 4 Kingdoms, leading up to the coming of Christ's Kingdom. To eliminate the Roman Kingdom seems incredibly deficient. Just my view...

 

[stormymonday]

It certainly does if you take the position I do, that the 4th Kingdom was Rome and is the last Kingdom in present history! The imperial Roman tradition has remained in Europe ever since the collapse of Rome in 476 AD. The fall of Rome did not spell the end of Roman culture and militancy. The rise of the Holy Roman Empire proved this, as well as the fact the Eastern portion of the old Roman Empire continued up until 1453 AD. And there the Roman imperial tradition continued beyond Constantinople, as well.

It wasn't just the Reformers. The Church Fathers--at least some of them, held to this view, as well. So we're talking about a traditional interpretation of the 4th Kingdom as old as the Church itself.

Yes, I'm familiar with your view. I don't think the sense of "inferior" determines clearly what Kingdom is meant. It more likely indicates that as the various metals cheapen, the kingdoms cheapen.

Who led the Medo-Persian Kingdom to defeat Babylon is not significant, if the Medes and the Persians are viewed as a dual Kingdom. As I said I'm familiar with your view. I tend to believe Nebuchadnezzar's Dream and Daniel's Dream were complementary prophecies designed to confirm one another. The 4 Kingdoms in both dreams represented the same 4 Kingdoms, leading up to the coming of Christ's Kingdom. To eliminate the Roman Kingdom seems incredibly deficient. Just my view...

The Medes and Persians were NOT consolidated until AFTER the taking of Babylon. After Darius 'took' the Babylonian Empire, it was still 6 years later when his brother in-law Cyrus came in. That's when Darius took hold of the northern province of the kingdom and Cyrus the southern. That empire was smaller and short-lived lasting about 6 years.

The sequence of kingdoms I believe in goes back to Josephus and PRE-DATES yours. The sequence you believe in came about afterwards. That doesn't prove anything. BUT the words in the text and other supporting passages DO prove Rome is exempt as the legs of iron!

The statue isn't describing the METALS - it's describing the KINGDOMS. What you have to do is PROVE how the word inferior - LAND INFERIOR - that describes the arms of silver, represents the Medo-Persian Empire when it was 3-4 times the land area of Babylon.

What you also have to prove is how the word ARAB describes anything ROMAN!

Take a look again at the word INFERIOR. It's the ONLY WORD that describes the arms of silver!


IOW - The word inferior describes LESS GROUND!

WHO led the Babylonian invasion is very significant because IT LITERALLY DEBUNKS THE IDEA THAT CYRUS AND THE PRESIANS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH TAKING OUT BABYLON! The taking out of Babylon is attributed to Darius and the Medes and NOT Cyrus and the Persian. You won't admit that because SCRIPTURE literally proves that the kingdom following Babylon was the smaller kingdom of the MEDES. The words, "I WAS WRONG" are seldom found in a Christians vocabulary.

Secularist and many Protestants believe Cyrus the Persian conquered Babylon. The reason for this is that there's very little secular history on Darius. The Bible is the historical authority on Darius. If Protestants were to agree with the bible instead of secular history where Daniel 5:31 says that Darius the Mede took Babylon at age 62. That would make them look incompetent because it blows the revived Roman empire theory right out of the water! Something they've been teaching for centuries.

Daniel 8 also affirms this because the Ram IS the combined kingdoms of the Medes and Persians. Daniel 8:3 shows that the Ram emerged from these two kingdoms. IF you accept what that passage shows - it proves that the Medes and Persians DID combine into ONE but look -

It was the MEDES that Rose FIRST and it was the MEDES that were Smaller!

"And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end [shall be]. The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia."

The smaller horn is the INFERIOR kingdom of the Medes which rose first, and the larger horn that rose afterwards, the kingdom of the Persians. Then the two eventually merged into ONE kingdom - the Ram.

I was by the river of Ulai. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had [two] horns: and the [two] horns [were] high; but one [was] higher than the other, and the higher came up last. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither [was there any] that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will and became great.

So, I'm going to ask you AND THE FORUM AGAIN - Quote ONE verse of end-time prophecy that clearly describe ROME as being involved in anything end-time!

We have an enormous amount of prophecy concerning the last days. All I'm asking is for you and the forum to do is quote ONE VERSE WHERE is Rome prophesied! JUST ONE!

 

[Davy]

I think most students of the bible knows about the 5 beast kingdoms, the question is how to identify it and many believe it will be a "revived (western) Roman empire" consisting of many nations of Europe w/ papal involvement. But, imo, they couldn't be farther from the truth. As the bible teaches in Dan. 9:26. The "people of the prince" weren't Romans. They were conscripted soldiers from the nations surrounding Israel at the time so what we are to look for is a coalition of nations from the "eastern" part of the Roman empire and of the nations of the future beast kingdom, Israel will be one of them.

That's actually the old, old Reformer's theory. They thought the pope was the Antichrist for the end in their day; it didn't pan out. Yet their theories are STILL taught in some Church organizational systems today.

And that also... is where the theory that a papal system is involved when the Daniel "legs of iron" pointed to a PAGAN ROMAN EMPIRE, and NOT a Christian empire!

Christ's Book of Revelation points to a false one from the tribe of Judah as false-Messiah, not a Romanish pope.

The Roman Church persecuted the unbelieving Jews in Rome once Rome converted to Jesus Christ. The unbelieving Jews were required to convert to Christianity or leave. And thus did the Christian European nations treat the Jews of that time. For this the unbelieving Jews have NEVER FORGIVEN ROME, and hate ROME to this day. And that... is why this pointing to a ROMAN EMPIRE and a POPE for the end as Antichrist is so popular among some 'deceived' Churches today where the false Jews have crept in.

Daniel 11 reveals a small group of Jews will make a "league" in Jerusalem with the "vile person" that represents the Antichrist for the end of this world. Guess what Christian group tries to hide that fact for the end? The same groups you're coming from that still teach the old Reformation theories, a very convenient lie for the false Jews.

 

[Davy]

The toes MINGLED with Iron and Clay.

The word MIXED OR MINGLED used to describe the toes mingled with iron and clay is the Aramaic word "arab." It means mixed and denotes an Arabian or Arabia. (Gesenius) This word is not associate with ROME, ITALY.

View attachment 28004
Daniel 2:43
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

Daniel tells Nebuchadnezzar much more about the iron and clay than any of the other kingdoms because it depicts the end-time kingdom that the Lord returns to destroy. The word MIXED actually describes the people, the origin, and the geographical area from which the end-time anti-Christ would arise. The description of the iron and clay describes the Arab/Muslim world far better than Rome or the EU.

"And [as] the toes of the feet [were] part of iron, and part of clay, [so] the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken."

"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."

"And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise."

Daniel says the kingdom would, 'subdue all things, be divided and not cleave to one another, partly strong and partly broken, and mixed (arab/intermarried) with the seed of men. Islam has subdued nearly every religion in the Middle East.

That's not true of Rome or the EU but is certainly true of Arab Islamic tribes and clans scattered across the countries of the Middle East. Rome, Italy, and the EU, have strong alliances and are all a peaceful coalition of nations. They're more unified than the Arab World which isn't united at all! Arab/Muslim countries throughout the Mid-East and Northern Africa have always been divided.

There are about 250 different tribes and clans in Northern Africa alone. Iraq has several hundred. They are proud of their heritage and can be your best friend and worse enemy at the same time. Iron and clay, divided, partly strong and partly broken, not cleaved to one another, "mixed with the seed of men," perfectly describes the Arabs. Both iron and clay are brittle, and they don't mix. I believe the iron and clay represents the Shia and Sunni sects of Islam. The two horned beast of Revelation 13 also represents the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam.

Not only do Arab/Islamic countries have fragile alliances they have mixed, crossed, and broken up into hundreds of different tribes and clans scattered across the entire Mid-East including Northern Africa.

Their history, the scriptures, Ishmael as their father, and today's world proves they are divided, uncleaved, intermarried, i.e., "mixed with the seed of men." The Arab world has never "cleaved to one another." The NLT actually uses the word intermarried instead of mixed. The word Arab is today a variation of the word 'crossed.'

Every verse of end time bible prophecy points to Arab, Persian, and Islamic countries. NOT ONE VERSE points to Rome.

So say the Jews.

 

[Davy]

The 'system' for the end of this world that Daniel 2 is pointing to is a one-world beast kingdom, literally covering the whole earth, all nations and all peoples. Christ's Book of Revelation declares this and is linked with these Daniel 2 prophecies about the end. So is Christ's Olivet discourse Signs for the end.

The final Antichrist or pseudo-Christ is described in 3 main places for the End:

1. Matthew 24:23-26 -- there, in the Greek, as the 'pseudochristos', and the context of the 23-26 verses is SINGULAR, about a singular false one, not many. Jesus warned when they say, "Lo, Christ is here, or there", to believe it not. Jesus warned that false one will work great signs and wonders that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, would deceive even His very elect. That further proves He was warning of a 'singular' false-Messiah in Jerusalem. Jesus also linked that working with the one who places the "abomination of desolation" in a standing temple in Jerusalem in false worship.

2. 2 Thessalonians 2 -- Apostle Paul warned that before Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church, a great falling away and the man of sin must occur first. He showed that false one, a singular false one, will sit in the "temple of God", pointing to a stone temple in Jerusalem, and that he will work all power, signs, and lying wonders. Paul is actually REPEATING Christ's warning of Matthew 24:23-26 about the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist.

3. Revelation 13:11 forward -- John is warning of the "another beast", one who appears as The Lamb, but will speak as a dragon (devil). He is to work miracles to deceive the whole world, raining fire down from heaven upon the earth, and require that all bow in worship to the "image of the beast", the idol "abomination of desolation" for the end which Jesus warned about for the end.


THAT ABOVE... is what God's written Word warns about the END, not... about some pope nor EU nation structure, nor just some Arab nation structure. IT IS ABOUT JERUSALEM IN FALSE WORSHIP BY THE UNBELIEVING JEWS! They are going to setup their false-Messiah and present him to the world as 'king', as God, from Jerusalem.

 

[Trekson]

That's actually the old, old Reformer's theory. They thought the pope was the Antichrist for the end in their day; it didn't pan out. Yet their theories are STILL taught in some Church organizational systems today.

And that also... is where the theory that a papal system is involved when the Daniel "legs of iron" pointed to a PAGAN ROMAN EMPIRE, and NOT a Christian empire!

Christ's Book of Revelation points to a false one from the tribe of Judah as false-Messiah, not a Romanish pope.

The Roman Church persecuted the unbelieving Jews in Rome once Rome converted to Jesus Christ. The unbelieving Jews were required to convert to Christianity or leave. And thus did the Christian European nations treat the Jews of that time. For this the unbelieving Jews have NEVER FORGIVEN ROME, and hate ROME to this day. And that... is why this pointing to a ROMAN EMPIRE and a POPE for the end as Antichrist is so popular among some 'deceived' Churches today where the false Jews have crept in.

Daniel 11 reveals a small group of Jews will make a "league" in Jerusalem with the "vile person" that represents the Antichrist for the end of this world. Guess what Christian group tries to hide that fact for the end? The same groups you're coming from that still teach the old Reformation theories, a very convenient lie for the false Jews.

"Daniel 11 reveals a small group of Jews will make a "league" in Jerusalem with the "vile person" that represents the Antichrist for the end of this world." That's not news either but Dan. 9:27 describes it as "many" and Zech. 13:8-9 describes it as 2/3 of Israel. I don't come from 'any" groups.

 

[Davy]

"Daniel 11 reveals a small group of Jews will make a "league" in Jerusalem with the "vile person" that represents the Antichrist for the end of this world." That's not news either but Dan. 9:27 describes it as "many" and Zech. 13:8-9 describes it as 2/3 of Israel. I don't come from 'any" groups.

It is 'news' for those who taught something else other than what God's written Word actually says. And at present, that appears to be the majority of Churches today, which 5/7ths was the ratio of Churches that were deceived in Asia Minor.