Heresy or error?
- Thread starter Episkopos
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"No bent" For real! And all those doctrines of men that have caused these "endless" divisions. Then all the "Pastorization" throwing out so much of God's council...enough to make you theologically insane! Boy do we ever have to be discerning.
Good stuff John, thanks.
And, Merry Christmas to you and family!
Best Christmas present ever. Listened to it twice. Thank you.
Never heard of John Ferguson. Going to look for him.
Never heard of John Ferguson. Going to look for him.
Likewise to you and yours Nancy! :) <><
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There are heresies and there are errors. The Heresies are the work of the tares, the errors are the result of Human nature (Pride), combined with Spiritual immaturity, which follows men's doctrines. (Ephesians 4:13-16)
For example, Luther's grace was a necessary step from the religious spirit, which had overtaken the Catholic church. It was an essential step in the corporate church growing to the next level of liberty and holiness, because the WAY had become obscured by the embedded heresies (Nicolaitanism, Jezebel doctrines). At the same time Luther, a human, was errant, and his error resulted directly in denominationalism, and endless schism. I Used to fight about these things, but now I see God's hand and plan in all of these things, for we all know in part. It is that human nature (Pride is the original sin) That we all need to overcome to receive those diverse views of different parts of the Body in fellowship, Brotherly Love and eventually Agape Love and unity of the Spirit. For someone who is born again they need to drink the milk of the Grace doctrines even today, But they also need to learn to digest the meat of the holiness doctrines over time. Both sides need to see each others inherent part to play from salvation to holiness.
Merry Christmas all, celebrate the greatest Gift ever given, the way of salvation through the cross, and the gift of the Spirit which sanctifies us making us His workmanship unto holiness and godliness.
God Bless.
God Bless.
Yes, merry Christmas everyone. I’ve honestly never had a better one.
Im understanding more, if even just yet an inkling, some of how the body begins to fit together and move and the necessity of that if unity is ever to happen.
I see also that unity doesn’t have to always mean close geographical proximity, to which I said, when I saw it, well of course God doesn’t need that to bring unity, why are you surprised? Didn’t an apostle even say to some of the body - I’m there with you in Spirit?
Its like Ephesians 4 exploded into 3D for me suddenly over yesterday and this morning. And the verse about being weak and sickly for not discerning the body and - well, it’s all flying at me again. I can’t wait for it to settle so I can share it.
Im understanding more, if even just yet an inkling, some of how the body begins to fit together and move and the necessity of that if unity is ever to happen.
I see also that unity doesn’t have to always mean close geographical proximity, to which I said, when I saw it, well of course God doesn’t need that to bring unity, why are you surprised? Didn’t an apostle even say to some of the body - I’m there with you in Spirit?
Its like Ephesians 4 exploded into 3D for me suddenly over yesterday and this morning. And the verse about being weak and sickly for not discerning the body and - well, it’s all flying at me again. I can’t wait for it to settle so I can share it.
The scripts say we have no NEED that any man teach us.
Have any not the Spirit of God, then ask him for his Spirit to live in, lead any into, help, reveal unto and walk through you. We have NOT bc we ASK NOT !
Heresy or error, what's the difference ?
Wrong is just wrong.
We must all be teachable, not feel as though we've already arrived.
The lost coin, the pearl of great price, the hidden treasure we, MUST ALL SEARCH WITH IT BY OUR LIGHT.
Have any not the Spirit of God, then ask him for his Spirit to live in, lead any into, help, reveal unto and walk through you. We have NOT bc we ASK NOT !
Heresy or error, what's the difference ?
Wrong is just wrong.
We must all be teachable, not feel as though we've already arrived.
The lost coin, the pearl of great price, the hidden treasure we, MUST ALL SEARCH WITH IT BY OUR LIGHT.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And we had better make sure the LIGHT we embrace is not darkness . Satan knows how to appear as an angel of light
and yet HE is of darkness . IF the light that is in one be darkness then GREAT is that darkness .
Light exposes the evil , it does not become bed fellows with evil . ONLY darkness would teach such a unity
only The serpent would convince folks that HIS LIGHT is the LIGHT and yet HE is of darkness .
Marvel not at this . Satan knows how to decieve , he always brings partial truths to twist them to support a lie .
He is the father and prince of lies . We must learn our bibles well .
We must heed the voice of the great shepard . And remember there are many voices , many teachings ,
many spirits who teach contrary to GOD , yet KNOW how to decieve and to allure .
Our faith must be in JESUS , and if its not in the biblical one , i got real bad news .
The lambs have the HOLY GHOST and thus we have as we need . All men must be tested
all voices must be tested , all things said and done must be tested and done so by what has already
been given us in that bible . March on in the glorious LORD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Correct . Heresay IS ERROR there is no difference .
@Episkopos
I really did appreciate that. I have saved it to listen again later...
Everyone with a measure of real vision has had a vague vision. Clarity?
"Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.” Psalm 139:11-12
“Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.” Isaiah 30:26
I really did appreciate that. I have saved it to listen again later...
Everyone with a measure of real vision has had a vague vision. Clarity?
| For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. I Cor 13:12 |
"Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.” Psalm 139:11-12
“Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.” Isaiah 30:26
| Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2 How blind are we still? |
I’ve been thinking about that @amadeus
(how blind are we still?)
Not even a prophet is going to fare splendidly if alone. It has to be gut wrenching to have something that can help so many and have everyone refuse it. It would wear you down with sorrow. And they’re the ones who have the revelation/understanding we need to begin building. I say “to begin” because I’m not sure we’ve begun yet. At least not from my experience. It’s kind of like water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. Churches churches everywhere and…
What building is going to be possible if no one has the plans? And if God gives a man the plans but no one can say, oh…okay, I see - but instead, the man God gives the plans to is always run off and not even heard by anyone, there might be a solitary little hut here and there but miles and miles away from each other and not even knowing each other exist or able to help each other build up, build more onto, or even maintain. And that’s “how blind are we still?” We’re very blind still, or maybe a better way to say it is, if you keep killing your prophets or deciding you’re going to do without them, you have literally not discerned Christ’s body, or a part of Christ’s body anyway, and so, without that part, the whole body suffers.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
This is like saying…oh, she is very sick, she has no liver, and a body without a functioning liver is very sickly and near death.
Id be surprised if even five people understood what I’ve said. I’d be happy, but surprised.
And yet, “you will do greater things than this,” where is it?? It obviously went wrong somewhere. There’s a lot of high places built, that’s all.
(how blind are we still?)
Not even a prophet is going to fare splendidly if alone. It has to be gut wrenching to have something that can help so many and have everyone refuse it. It would wear you down with sorrow. And they’re the ones who have the revelation/understanding we need to begin building. I say “to begin” because I’m not sure we’ve begun yet. At least not from my experience. It’s kind of like water water everywhere and not a drop to drink. Churches churches everywhere and…
What building is going to be possible if no one has the plans? And if God gives a man the plans but no one can say, oh…okay, I see - but instead, the man God gives the plans to is always run off and not even heard by anyone, there might be a solitary little hut here and there but miles and miles away from each other and not even knowing each other exist or able to help each other build up, build more onto, or even maintain. And that’s “how blind are we still?” We’re very blind still, or maybe a better way to say it is, if you keep killing your prophets or deciding you’re going to do without them, you have literally not discerned Christ’s body, or a part of Christ’s body anyway, and so, without that part, the whole body suffers.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
This is like saying…oh, she is very sick, she has no liver, and a body without a functioning liver is very sickly and near death.
Id be surprised if even five people understood what I’ve said. I’d be happy, but surprised.
And yet, “you will do greater things than this,” where is it?? It obviously went wrong somewhere. There’s a lot of high places built, that’s all.
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If you ask me we are living in the time of "small things", literally "little ones". It is the state of the faithful for the most part right now. Its not that something went wrong just the time of ripening and latter rain has yet to occur.
To understand what I mean by small things refer to Zechariah 4:10 (Notice the endtimes implications in that passage, Re: the two witnesses). Those who saw the glory of the Old temple despised the foundation laid by Zerubbabel. They failed to see how this foundation led to Christ the Messiah. The Church seems powerless and feeble because that is how they are right now, but when God imparts us with glorified Bodies at the harvest then those small things (Babes) will become a thousand and the small one (Juvenile) a great nation (Isaiah 60:22) All in God's time.
You may see a lack of vision, and weakness in the church, and there is that for real as installed by the heretics(Tares) among us, but God is the one who owns his church, it is his field, and to harvest too soon would be to uproot the wheat. I Don't know if you understand this exactly? And I am not good at explaining this, but do not despise the day of small things, keep your focus on the Harvest.
I do hear you…and i think I’d probably readily agree with you if I didn’t see all around me the exact same mistakes that Israel kept making. I see an almost exact copy in so many things, like…”your leaders have led you astray.“ And if someone has received a down payment of the Spirit, which wasn’t given to the Jews like to us, then my mind thinks, well then, I guess more will be expected of us since more has been given to us?
On the other hand, just as not everyone who says they’re a Jew is a true Jew according to God, and not every Christian is circumcised. And how can I tell the difference? I think it’s like Epi said in his last podcast - there is being in some error and then there is doing great harm and causing division that leaves some lost on the outskirts in danger of being eaten by the lion that seeks to devour. That’s the dividing line, isn’t it, between those who I might plead with, instruct, bear with and give up my life for and those I’m to have nothing to do with? And I can freely share what He has given me and shown me, but…if I fail to discern the body after I’ve been given more, and I’m like Aaron and Miriam instead, refusing to…well…I’m still working on that.
At some point, at some point of maturity, at some point of being given more than others, don’t I become more responsible and become my younger brothers keeper rather than just letting him be beaten down and abused and stuffed with leaven and maybe even eaten? Like…oh well, at least I’m eating well in the drought, at least its going okay for me, spiritually speaking. At least I’m not starving. I’m telling you, those verses about eating in 1 cor 11 pertain to this, not literal food, and also the being weak and some even dying aren’t because we await some latter rain - it’s because those who have been given more and are maturer now aren’t stepping up because…well, still working on that part too but…partly because we desire physical comfort and sleep rather than giving up our life for our brother. And that’s going to become what little you have will be taken from you.
Still working on the covering the head in that passage too, because it means something far more than a cloth on a head of a particular gender when there is no more male and female with us and when we are to no longer know each other according to the flesh but rather the Spirit.
There’s something in what you’ve said that I can’t agree with. It sounds like saying….God just hasn’t watered us for a while. But if that were the the case, why would all those churches be given the messages they’re given.
We have our commands, precepts and standards of practice in God's Holy Writ.
There is NO church building here on earth any more IMO but his church is the whole of the faithful scattered among the world.
The world DOES NOT have spiritual eyes, heart nor mind and CAN NOT know God.
They do carry on the practices that once we're a part of our worship. The traditions such as baptism and communion are observed by the world that carry on in the social setting of " church".
They fail to KNOW God and continue IN HIM. When these folks take part of believers forms of worship and take communion they know not in their hearts that it is representative of the body and blood of Christ in God's spiritual realm. In doing so they take part of detriment, sickness, rebuke,and judgment from God for IT IS MOCKERY OF THE SACRIFICE THAT WAS GIVEN.
They get sick, financially broken, suffer grief and pain.
GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!
YOU EITHER ARE......OR YOU AIN'T. Simple.
There is NO church building here on earth any more IMO but his church is the whole of the faithful scattered among the world.
The world DOES NOT have spiritual eyes, heart nor mind and CAN NOT know God.
They do carry on the practices that once we're a part of our worship. The traditions such as baptism and communion are observed by the world that carry on in the social setting of " church".
They fail to KNOW God and continue IN HIM. When these folks take part of believers forms of worship and take communion they know not in their hearts that it is representative of the body and blood of Christ in God's spiritual realm. In doing so they take part of detriment, sickness, rebuke,and judgment from God for IT IS MOCKERY OF THE SACRIFICE THAT WAS GIVEN.
They get sick, financially broken, suffer grief and pain.
GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!
YOU EITHER ARE......OR YOU AIN'T. Simple.
They are not Christians, They are tares (False converts) among the wheat (Christians). The Tares are amongst us, and it is not our job to uproot them, they are there for those who are approved to manifest themselves.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. (1 Corinthians 11:19)
It is not that God has not wanted to water us, it is that we have not sought God to water us, "for we are rich and in need of nothing". This is a direct result of the failure to distinguish between the faithful and the saints, and righteousness and holiness..... The Gospel of grace has been perverted to keeping the faithful in a state of infancy spiritually, suckling on milk. There have been few that have walked the path of maturity Spiritually especially in the western church. Few even know of this path because of the humanistic Gospel we have in the church.
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