Basically that I didn't care what they thought of me and that no matter what evidence I presented they had made up their mind to reject it before they even read it.
Unitarianism vs Trinitarianism
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“...it’s own conception of the Trinity was looked upon by the Fathers themselves as a combination of Jewish monotheism and pagan polytheism, except that to them this combination was a good combination; in fact, it was to them an ideal combination of what is best in Jewish monotheism and of what is best in pagan polytheism, and consequently they gloried in it and pointed to it as evidence of the truth of their belief. We have on this the testimony of Gregory of Nyssa - one of the great figures in the history of the philosophic formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity - and his words are repeated by John of Damascus - the last of the Church Fathers.
The Christian conception of God, argues Gregory of Nyssa, is neither the polytheism of the Greeks nor the monotheism of the Jews and consequently it must be true, for ’the truth passes in the mean between these two conceptions, destroying each heresy, and yet, accepting what is useful to it from each. The Jewish dogma is destroyed by the acceptance of the Word and by the belief in the Spirit, while the polytheistic error of the Greek school is made to vanish by the unity of the nature abrogating this imagination of plurality.’”
(Henry Austryn Wolfson, The Philosophy of the Church Fathers, Vol. I, pp. 362-363, Second Edition, Revised)
Gregory! What have you done? Jewish monotheism - the monotheism held by Jesus of Nazareth - is heresy. You destroyed the dogma of the Messiah with your trinitarian conception of God.
What will the Messiah say about that when you meet?
I’ve been in your shoes. Sometimes I’ve answered as you did. Sometimes I’ve answered differently. And sometimes I haven’t bothered to answer at all. Generally speaking, my response depends on how well I know the person I’m dealing with.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
That's a powerful reminder. Jesus was a Jew born under the law, required to believe in monotheism (not trinitarianism).
To that, all the 3-is-1-ers say ... cricket! ... cricket! ... cricket!
For some reason premillennialism is not considered a valid view on this thread. I acknowledged that amillennialism was a valid view but they wouldn't extend me the same courtesy.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The surprising thing to me is the passion about the subject.
For me, I really haven't formed an opinion. Focused on other things, I am. But I have noticed the smoke from afar.
Do you notice any relationship between U v T and P v A? Would you mind summarizing the debate? It's about prophecy, right?
Premillennialism - Wikipedia
They can sum it up better than I can. I assume most of the people on this thread are Trinitarians
22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine is the thread
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I know. I've seen that thread.
Before I participate in such threads, I prefer to get a balanced analysis. This means the strengths and weaknesses of P v A. Obviously, that thread has already reached an opinion and I suspect there could be reasons to not abanon Premil doctrine.
Thanks for the link! I'll read it when I can and report back to you.
Amillenarism or amillennialism is a type of chillegorism which teaches and believed that there will be no millennial reign of the righteous on Earth. Amillennialists interpret the thousand years symbolically to refer either to a temporary bliss of souls in heaven before the general resurrection, or to the infinite bliss of the righteous after the general resurrection.[1]
This sounds absurd to me... if anyone takes this view, when they die they have to wait for the general resurrection!
And many people really do subscribe to this view... grandpa joey still in the grave waiting for the day of the Lord to come about.
This sounds absurd to me... if anyone takes this view, when they die they have to wait for the general resurrection!
And many people really do subscribe to this view... grandpa joey still in the grave waiting for the day of the Lord to come about.
What gets me is Satan is bound and chained during that period. If Satan is bound his chain is too long.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
@RLT63, in the fulfilment view that I have is that Satan was bound after the stoning of Steven (right that was his name?), because after that the Gospel had went and spread far and wide. It could be wrong. My view really comes from the promise of Jesus, to return in that generation along with all the signs that went with it and they are found in secular accounts such as Cassio Dio, Tacitus, Josephus, and there was one more person that just slips my mind.... Suetonius. To go after that kind of information is quite daunting to say the least.
I believe everyone who dies is judged and its done quickly as leaving the body, being resurrected spiritually. Where a person is sent I do not know, what a person may see exactly I do not know, but I do believe that they go on to the Heavenly Realm either outside or inside the kingdom.
I think you can watch the evening news and conclude that Satan is not bound.
Eh... no thank you. Satan is defeated today, but that doesn't mean darkness or the spirit of hatred, spirit of manipulation has went away, that is just my opinion based on scripture which may not worth much to you.
That is not to say that america cant have a bomb hit it and bad things happen, the world in my view will always be here, and there will be a never ending supply of people who will be entering into the Kingdom by faith.
But to each their own, I have become so devout in my belief of Jesus Christ victory, that it is fine if you believe Satan is still around my friend, though I personally in my heart, mind and soul do not and it is very freeing to believe that Jesus has had that complete victory.
People look at the world when they should be looking at the Lord, but its their choice right? And the people of the world, who do not have God need just as much as compassion and mercy from us as human beings being part of the Heavenly Kingdom.
Best regards,
Matthew Gallagher.
Along with this notion the whole subject matter in the post is kind of void that being the thread addressing VS. It seems God has allowed everything to be as it has been now today with all the fighting and debating, in which one must consider will I love the person who believes different than many anyway?
The main goal of a Christian is to love, you can love by sharing truth in gentleness and kindness by the spirit towards others.
The oddities of beliefs they matter but they matter individually because everyone can justify a stance based on scripture; but the fuller story is hasn’t God reconciled the world unto himself because of his son? Is God still mad at the world or not? If sin had been paid for and the wrath poured out Israel in 70Ad along with the return of Christ to the first-fruit bride of Christ or Church, why do people debate so much and fight; not to say that a debate isn’t sometimes a good thing but to allow people to have their own subjective views in love by the spirit even if it doesn’t unite with your own belief or view.
Thank you for reading and take care.
I was thinking this evening about Jesus being our example, the pioneer of our faith.
The man (Gk. anthropos; biblical) demonstrated his faith in my God.
Would the trinitarians say that the God-man (Gk. theanthropos; not biblical, post-biblical) demonstrated faith in theirs (i.e. the Trinity)?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
It does't matter to them that Jesus did not teach the trinity. It does not matter to them that Jesus said only true worshippers, worship the Father, John 4:23. It doesn't matter to them that Jesus taught us to pray to a single God - who we relate to as Father.
I suppose that's the thing about idolatry; facts don't matter.
I'm sure you've noticed their invoking the Ad Homenim that anyone who does not believe as they do are not Spiritually mature. That necessarily includes Jesus.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
John 8:24-25, 58, is very clear, if anyone does not believe that Jesus Christ is Yahweh, Almighty God, they will NOT be in heaven, but lost in their sins in eternal punishment.
there are ZERO exceptions, and NO arguments!
there are ZERO exceptions, and NO arguments!
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