Unitarianism vs Trinitarianism

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GEN2REV

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You’ve united with the trinitarians, and they with you, against Jewish monotheism.
Your facade of Jewish Monotheism is rather silly.

Jewish Monotheists don't even believe that Christ ever came to earth.

You vehemently deny that's your position, but continue to claim to represent their theology.
  • "Jews believe Jesus did not fulfill messianic prophecies that establish the criteria for the coming of the messiah. Judaism does not accept Jesus as a divine being, an intermediary between humans and God, a messiah, or holy."
  • Judaism's view of Jesus - Wikipedia.

You can't answer any questions about the many verses that undoubtedly make Christ God and you don't have a clue what the menorah is all about.

Now, ... tell me how my post unites me with the doctrine of God being 3 separate, different persons.
 
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Matthias

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Your facade of Jewish Monotheism is rather silly.

Jewish Monotheists don't even believe that Christ ever came to earth.

You vehemently deny that's your position, but continue to claim to represent their theology.

Judaism's view of Jesus - Wikipedia.

You can't answer any questions about the many verses that undoubtedly make Christ God and you don't have a clue what the menorah is all about.

Now, ... tell me how my post unites me with the doctrine of God being 3 separate, different persons.

You’re a smart guy. You don’t need someone like me to explain to you those things which you have in common with the trinitarians.
 

Matthias

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I don't think anyone who got saved in the book of Acts understood the Godhead.

Why do you think that? I’m asking because it’s been on my mind all evening.

If I’ve understood you correctly, you believe the apostles were trinitarians and the Church c. A.D. 30 is trinitarian.

Setting post-biblical Church history (2nd century and following) aside for a moment, if the Church in the 1st century was trinitarian then why wouldn’t those who “got saved in the book of Acts” not understand that the Godhead is the Trinity?
 
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RLT63

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Why do you think that? I’m asking because it’s been on my mind all evening.

If I’ve understood you correctly, you believe the apostles were trinitarians and the Church c. A.D. 30 is trinitarian.

Setting post-biblical Church history (2nd century and following) aside for a moment, if the Church in the 1st century was trinitarian then why wouldn’t those who “got saved in the book of Acts” not understand that the Godhead is the Trinity?
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know if any of the Apostles understood the Godhead but John understood that Jesus is God.
 

Matthias

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Don't put words in my mouth.

I intentionally prefaced my question by saying “If I’ve understood you correctly”.

Your response causes me to think that I haven’t.

I don't know if any of the Apostles understood the Godhead but John understood that Jesus is God.

Do you find any trinitarians anywhere in the Bible?
 

Wrangler

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Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know if any of the Apostles understood the Godhead but John understood that Jesus is God.
LOL. You are putting words in John’s mouth.

Saying John understood that Jesus is God is at odds with him writing the most anti-trinitarian book of the entire Bible.
 

MatthewG

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John had a revelation about who Jesus had become.


“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, the four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Once Jesus had completed everything he gave everything to the Father becoming one with God, known as the Lord God Almighty.

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power 1 Corinthians 15:24
 

RLT63

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LOL. You are putting words in John’s mouth.

Saying John understood that Jesus is God is at odds with him writing the most anti-trinitarian book of the entire Bible.
You must have a different Bible
 

Matthias

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The first trinitarians appear on the stage of Church history in the 4th century.

There are no trinitarians in the Bible. No one living in biblical times believed in the Trinity.

Why does anyone want to be a trinitarian when no one living in biblical times was?

Trinitarianism is a new religion; a religion which didn’t exist in the first three centuries of the Church, and never in Judaism.
 

RLT63

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The first trinitarians appear on the stage of Church history in the 4th century.

There are no trinitarians in the Bible. No one living in biblical times believed in the Trinity.

Why does anyone want to be a trinitarian when no one living in biblical times was?

Trinitarianism is a new religion; a religion which didn’t exist in the first three centuries of the Church, and never in Judaism.
I am a Christian Monotheist.
 

Matthias

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“It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St. Paul did not know it, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agree.”

(W.R. Matthews, God in Christian Experience, p. 180)

Dr. Matthews, himself a trinitarian (Anglican), was aware of and had “the rudiments of an historical sense” which the average trinitarian doesn’t, by personal choice, possess.

Does having “the rudiments of an historical sense” preclude a person from being trinitarian?

Obviously not. But it does preclude the idea that those who lived prior to the 4th century, prior to trinitarianism, from being themselves trinitarians.
 

Wrangler

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Go ahead and unpack that claim for us.

More mumbo jumbo nonsense.

A specific question would help with my fully packed but concise statement.

Your facade of Jewish Monotheism is rather silly.
@Matthias, I too would like a clarification of your beliefs. Maybe I asked you this before. Do you consider yourself to be a Messianic Jew? If not, what is your understanding of who Jesus is?
 
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