What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[RLT63]

No. First there was God, who created his words.

John 1 you contradict scripture

 

[Peterlag]

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord.

One of the ways we know that “pneuma hagion” often refers to the gift of God’s nature is that it “belongs” to God, who calls it “my” spirit. The spirit is called “God’s” spirit in many verses and King David understood the holy spirit belonged to God because he wrote “…do not take your holy spirit from me.” The Bible shows us that “the holy spirit” is under God’s authority and direction, which makes sense when we understand it's the gift of His nature that He gives to believers. The words “Messiah” in Hebrew (mashiyach מָשִׁיחַ) and “Christ” in Greek (christos Χριστός) both mean “anointed one.” Thus, the early Christians would have known him as “Jesus the anointed one.” God “anointed” Jesus Christ with the holy spirit and that's why Jesus was said to have been “anointed” even though people knew he had never been formally anointed with oil (Acts 4:27; 10:38).

We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name “Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus” in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

John 1 you contradict scripture

Well, I understand figurative speech. Speech flows from a speaker.

 

[Matthias]

Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord.

Reminiscent of the Trisagion, which has a very interesting, and highly contentious, history among trinitarian religious authorities and traditions down through the ages.

It means something to trinitarians which it didn’t mean to the (unitarian) seraphim.

 

[RLT63]

Reminiscent of the Trisagion, which has a very interesting, and highly contentious, history among trinitarian religious authorities and traditions down through the ages.

It means something to trinitarians which it didn’t mean to the (unitarian) seraphim.

Trisagion - Wikipedia

 

[marks]

Right, the word, not God, became flesh. See the difference?

The Word that was with God, the Word that was God, that is the Word Who became flesh.

To me it just seems silly to not acknowledge this. John's writing is simple. And there are parallel passages which support this. If you just take in the plain meaning of plainly stated Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It is always true that 3 cannot be 1.

Like I said.

So then you use your human logic to define God contrary to how the Bible presents Him.

Much love!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I can't get anyone to answer this honest question. All I get back is because the Bible says so. But there must be a reason for it. What is it? Here I will give you a reason why he had to be a man.

Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” The Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

Now it's your turn. Anyone?

Hello Peterlag, and how are you all? after reading your post, I was thinking, ever since I learned that GOD is a Spirit and that His spirit was in Christ, I knew then that He made us unto Himself.

2 Corinthians Five:19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”

Also, in Mark 12:29 Jesus replied, "This is the most important: 'Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. (biblehub.com)

John Four:1-54

Christ Witnesses To The Woman At The Well 1-26, Christ Witnesses To The Disciples 27-38

Christ Witnesses To The Samaritans 39-42, Christ Is Received By The Galilaeans 43-45

Christ Heals The Nobleman's Son 46-54

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
(biblehub.com)

The Supremacy of Christ

(Hebrews 1:1-14)

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

What do you think?

Love, Walter and Debbie

 

[Peterlag]

Hello Peterlag, and how are you all? after reading your post, I was thinking, ever since I learned that GOD is a Spirit and that His spirit was in Christ, I knew then that He made us unto Himself.

2 Corinthians Five:19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”

Also, in Mark 12:29 Jesus replied, "This is the most important: 'Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. (biblehub.com)

John Four:1-54

Christ Witnesses To The Woman At The Well 1-26, Christ Witnesses To The Disciples 27-38

Christ Witnesses To The Samaritans 39-42, Christ Is Received By The Galilaeans 43-45

Christ Heals The Nobleman's Son 46-54

1 Timothy 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
(biblehub.com)

The Supremacy of Christ

(Hebrews 1:1-14)

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

What do you think?

Love, Walter and Debbie

I have a thread on Colossians 1:16. It should be easy to find on this forum just halfway down the same page this post is on.

 

[Wrangler]

The Word that was with God, the Word that was God, that is the Word Who became flesh.

To me it just seems silly to not acknowledge this.

What is silly is you pretending WHAT’s are WHO’s.

If FDR’s words come out of my mouth, it does not make me FDR.

 

[GEN2REV]

If FDR’s words come out of my mouth, it does not make me FDR.

But if it were FDR's spirit (soul) that animated your flesh, ... it would.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I have a thread on Colossians 1:16. It should be easy to find on this forum just halfway down the same page this post is on.

What is the name of the thread? do you have a link for it?

Walter

 

[marks]

What is silly is you pretending WHAT’s are WHO’s.

If FDR’s words come out of my mouth, it does not make me FDR.

" . . . and His Name is called the Word of God . . . "

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

But if it were FDR's spirit (soul) that animated your flesh, ... it would.

Nope. Still him/his.

 

[Wrangler]

" . . . and His Name is called the Word of God . . . "

Much love!

Do you believe every use of the word "word" in Scripture refers to Jesus?

 

[Matthias]

Trisagion - Wikipedia

Thanks. The article you linked provided a pretty good summary of what I alluded to.

I was fortunate to have great teachers (the majority of them trinitarian) who emphasized historical context. I’m sure you’ve noted their influence in my approach to dealing with doctrinal issues.

One enthusiastic teacher in particular (now deceased) emphasized how critically important it is for us to read the early Church Fathers. I took that to heart. I’m sorry to have to say that the majority of his students didn’t, thinking it irrelevant (smh) and impractical (acknowledging that the people sitting in the pews week by week couldn’t care less about it).

 

[GEN2REV]

Do you believe every use of the word "word" in Scripture refers to Jesus?

Can you give some examples?

 

[Wrangler]

Can you give some examples?

Really?


Genesis 37:4
New Living Translation

4 But his brothers hated Joseph because their father loved him more than the rest of them. They couldn’t say a kind word to him.

 

[GEN2REV]

Really?


Genesis 37:4
New Living Translation

4 But his brothers hated Joseph because their father loved him more than the rest of them. They couldn’t say a kind word to him.

Nobody believes that's speaking of Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

Nobody believes that's speaking of Jesus.

Therefore, everyone believes not all the times the word ‘word’ is used in Scripture, it refers to Jesus.

I include John 1:1 to that list.