What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Michiah-Imla]

I don't care that some people don't see Christ as divine.

There’s divinity with Christ. No doubt about it! And we are PARTAKERS of it in Christ.

“Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:2-4)

Now if everyone were as reasonable as you Ferris there’d be more unity.

God bless you!

 

[Matthias]

How many beings is Jesus?

 

[RLT63]

Does anyone here remember Hank Hanegraaff, “The Bible Answer Man”?

Well just I’m case anyone is wondering, I’m not him. (I had the thought over dinner - lunch - today that a particular member of the forum may perceive me that way.)

I don’t have all the answers. There are things in scripture which I’m just not sure about. There are things in scripture which I understand and things in scripture which I either don’t or may not understand.

I read scripture now through a different lens than I did when I was a trinitarian. That produces an understanding which is sometimes compatible with the understanding I had as a trinitarian but other times and often incompatible with that understanding.

I tell people what I believe and why I believe it. I ask the same of others.

I reserve the right to change my mind if I become persuaded about something. Which is to say, I keep an open mind and reserve the right to repent.

I’m a teacher and a preacher. (Retired.) I am what I am, and trouble comes with the territory. It’s a common tale among teachers and preachers.

I remember Hank didn't like dispensationalists, especially had some issues about sacrifices resuming. But you have a lot of answers so you do have that in common.

 

[dhh712]

@dhh712 Scripture is full of the Deity of Christ; and classic expressions of the faith reflect it also:

"God of God,
Light of light,
Lo, He abhors not the virgin's Womb,
Verily God, begotten, not created,
O come let us adore Him
Christ, the Lord!"

"Peace on earth, and mercy mild,
God and sinners reconciled."

Yes. It is unavoidable. Then, you have the other branch of the "argument": trying to apply our human logic to it as I received in the post above. Once again, you have those who do not trust in the word of God but rather lean upon their own understanding. Once again, one must seriously be deluded by the Father of Lies, Satan himself, to be blind enough to not see the deity of Jesus in God's revelation of Himself.

And once again, though it is beyond our ability to understand because our flawed and finite logic cannot comprehend it: God's revelation is clear that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. The two natures are not infused or conjoined together and it is not the same as saying that a man can be a woman. It is clear in the Bible that God created mankind male and female. There is no confusion of those natures. It is just as clear that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. We can go as far as our logic takes us to interpret God's word. But, as soon as our logic contradicts God's word, that is when we must stop and say, "I must trust in the Lord and lean not on my own understanding."

That is where all Christians are with the 100% God and 100% man as it applies to Jesus. It doesn't make sense to our finite minds. But, that is what God's word reveals to us. It is for us to accept, not to say that we do not understand it. God did not give us His revelation to exhaust our curiosity. He provided it to us so that we can be reconciled to him, and that can only be done by trusting in the Lord God Jesus for our righteousness.

But that is as far as I will go. As I pointed out before, it is absolute futility to try to open these people's eyes. Only the Lord God Spirit can do the impossible. I leave it to Him.

 

[Matthias]

I remember Hank didn't like dispensationalists, especially had some issues about sacrifices resuming. But you have a lot of answers so you do have that in common.

Good answers or bad answers in common? ;)

 

[farouk]

Yes. It is unavoidable. Then, you have the other branch of the "argument": trying to apply our human logic to it as I received in the post above. Once again, you have those who do not trust in the word of God but rather lean upon their own understanding. Once again, one must seriously be deluded by the Father of Lies, Satan himself, to be blind enough to not see the deity of Jesus in God's revelation of Himself.

And once again, though it is beyond our ability to understand because our flawed and finite logic cannot comprehend it: God's revelation is clear that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. The two natures are not infused or conjoined together and it is not the same as saying that a man can be a woman. It is clear in the Bible that God created mankind male and female. There is no confusion of those natures. It is just as clear that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. We can go as far as our logic takes us to interpret God's word. But, as soon as our logic contradicts God's word, that is when we must stop and say, "I must trust in the Lord and lean not on my own understanding."

That is where all Christians are with the 100% God and 100% man as it applies to Jesus. It doesn't make sense to our finite minds. But, that is what God's word reveals to us. It is for us to accept, not to say that we do not understand it. God did not give us His revelation to exhaust our curiosity. He provided it to us so that we can be reconciled to him, and that can only be done by trusting in the Lord God Jesus for our righteousness.

But that is as far as I will go. As I pointed out before, it is absolute futility to try to open these people's eyes. Only the Lord God Spirit can do the impossible. I leave it to Him.

@dhh712 I am reminded also of Acts 16, which speaks of "Lydia, whose heart the Lord opened"....this opening of the heart by the Holy Spirit is truly necessary, indeed.

 

[Charlie24]

That may well be an admission on your part, but your inability to understand or comprehend is no reflection on the ability of others to understand or comprehend things you say you do not.

Let’s tackle the 100% claim. God is God. Man is man. God is not man and man is not God.
God is spirit, man is flesh.

Only by changing the definitions of this above can you insert a warped understanding where one can then insist that both are 100% true, but we see it often these days.

It’s the theological equivalent of insisting that a man can also be a woman. Born with all the parts that make you male, they claim to be also female, or female by declaration apart from biology. It becomes a world when men then ‘menstruate’ and can become pregnant not by some miraculous method, but by simply changing the definition of what man, or woman means.

Don’t do that with God and man.

Christ was not born of procreation as all other men. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit.

So we see that Christ was not born in the same fashion as we were.

His flesh was made the same as our flesh, the difference is that it was not procreation as we were born, not by man.

To see this is to see that Christ could well be both Man and God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

How many beings is Jesus?

As many as believe in Him.

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20)

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Christ was not born of procreation as all other men. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit.

So we see that Christ was not born in the same fashion as we were.

His flesh was made the same as our flesh, the difference is that it was not procreation as we were born, not by man.

To see this is to see that Christ could well be both Man and God.

Yes. Because God was the origin,creator, of humans. He begat himself within Mary because God is the only one that saves.

''Besides me there is no Savior.''
Isaiah 43:11 Context: I myself am Yahweh; and besides me there is no savior.

The OT verse that refutes that which insists Jesus/Immanuel/ was not God.

 

[RLT63]

That may well be an admission on your part, but your inability to understand or comprehend is no reflection on the ability of others to understand or comprehend things you say you do not.

Let’s tackle the 100% claim. God is God. Man is man. God is not man and man is not God.
God is spirit, man is flesh.

Only by changing the definitions of this above can you insert a warped understanding where one can then insist that both are 100% true, but we see it often these days.

It’s the theological equivalent of insisting that a man can also be a woman. Born with all the parts that make you male, they claim to be also female, or female by declaration apart from biology. It becomes a world when men then ‘menstruate’ and can become pregnant not by some miraculous method, but by simply changing the definition of what man, or woman means.

Don’t do that with God and man.

You're too late. We already have men claiming to be women and vice versa, and if you disagree you are transphobic. And there are some born that are both sexes but it is rare.
People believe differently than you about Jesus. You should accept this. Just as I have to accept that there are people who believe as you do. We're not changing anyone's mind. The discussions are good and some good points are made but I don't think anyone is converting.

 

[TLHKAJ]

So where does Jesus being God get us to?

Back to God.

John 14:6-9
[6]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

GOD is the Father. Jesus is God, which means He is also our Father. And yet, He is the Son where it pertains to His place in the Godhead. See below how that Isaiah speaks of the Messiah (Jesus) who was to come. He is described as "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father."

Isaiah 9:6-7
[6]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[7]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

 

[Matthias]

As many as believe in Him.

“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” (John 14:20)

The answer I was anticipating is 1.

Jesus is 1 being. Human.

If Jesus is a non-human being before becoming a human being then he is 2 beings.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

 

[RLT63]

I think all translations have their pluses and minuses, their strengths and weakness. I primarily use NASB (my workhorse) but I like NABRE* for casual reading. I rotate Bibles from time to time, as that often stimulates my mind. Reading only one translation can dull my mind. I habitually consult multiple translations when preparing an academic presentation or preparing a sermon (back in the day), and now when contemplating how to respond to a post on the forums. And sometimes out of consideration for the person I’m speaking with.

More information is a available today than was available when KJV (and many other translations) were published. For example, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. New information can enhance our understanding of what is written in scripture.

P.S.

* For those who may not know, NABRE is a Roman Catholic translation. I haven’t noticed anyone else quoting from it on the forums and I have no objection to using trinitarian translations of the Bible.

I found this article helpful on how we got modern translations. It is lengthy and is kind of like Cliff Notes on textual criticism.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

;

Back to God.

John 14:6-9
[6]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

GOD is the Father. Jesus is God, which means He is also our Father. And yet, He is the Son where it pertains to His place in the Godhead. See below how that Isaiah speaks of the Messiah (Jesus) who was to come. He is described as "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father."

Isaiah 9:6-7
[6]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[7]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

You may notice after reading their repetitive false claims that there is no verse that shows Jesus was God that they actually do not believe in either Jesus or God.
They do believe in trolling Christians for as long as we allow, and/or feed them our attention as they attempt to insult what we hold dear.

You will never reach what God has hardened in them. And others here like them.

 

[dhh712]

You may notice after reading their repetitive false claims that there is no verse that shows Jesus was God that they actually do not believe in either Jesus or God.
They do believe in trolling Christians for as long as we allow, and/or feed them our attention as they attempt to insult what we hold dear.

You will never reach what God has hardened in them. And others here like them.

Amen. We must pray that the Lord will open their eyes. Only His Spirit can do the impossible. And the angels will sing praises in heaven when they fall before Jesus and profess, as a doubter before professed, "My Lord and my GOD".

 

[Matthias]

@Heart2Soul Contextual reading is important, indeed. Sometimes ppl reel off quotes of individual verses - which can be good - but where in a passage they occur is also significant.

I wanted to come back to this. Context is critical. Truly, a non-negotiable.

I signed up for Walking The Text about a month ago. It’s all about context. I would recommend it to anyone and everyone. There’s no cost.

The leader of the program is a trinitarian. I hope that won’t turn off non-trinitarians. I’m half way through the program and he’s not talking about trinitarianism. His focus is on types of context.

Here’s a link to the website for those who might be interested.

Walking The Text | Free Online Bible Study Resources

 

[RLT63]

Good answers or bad answers in common? ;)

Most of yours are good. I didn't listen to Hank much

 

[Mr E]

You're too late. We already have men claiming to be women and vice versa, and if you disagree you are transphobic. And there are some born that are both sexes but it is rare.
People believe differently than you about Jesus. You should accept this. Just as I have to accept that there are people who believe as you do. We're not changing anyone's mind. The discussions are good and some good points are made but I don't think anyone is converting.

Conversion is the ultimate DIY project. I’m not upset when someone disagrees and I don’t get particularly excited if someone agrees. I’m happy to present what I know and what I believe and leave to others any act of conversion. Each person is responsible for their own beliefs, acts and decisions.

All face the same Judge, and it isn’t you or me.

I believe in prophecy.
Some folks see things not everybody can see.
And, once in a while, they pass the secret along to you and me.
And I believe in miracles.
Something sacred burning in every bush and tree.
We can all learn to sing the songs the angels sing.
Yeah, I believe in God, and God ain't me.
I've traveled around the world,
Stood on mighty mountains and gazed across the wilderness.
Never seen a line in the sand or a diamond in the dust.
And as our fate unfurls,
Every day that passes I'm sure about a little bit less.

Even my money keeps telling me it's God I need to trust.
And I believe in God, but God ain't us.
God, in my little understanding, don't care what name I call.
Whether or not I believe doesn't matter at all.
I receive the blessings.
That every day on Earth's another chance to get it right.
Let this little light of mine shine and rage against the night.
Just another lesson
Maybe someone's watching and wondering what I got.
Maybe this is why I'm here on Earth, and maybe not.
But I believe in God, and God is God.

 

[Peterlag]

Back to God.

John 14:6-9
[6]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
[7]If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8]Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9]Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

GOD is the Father. Jesus is God, which means He is also our Father. And yet, He is the Son where it pertains to His place in the Godhead. See below how that Isaiah speaks of the Messiah (Jesus) who was to come. He is described as "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father."

Isaiah 9:6-7
[6]For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[7]Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

So if I'm right... then you have no idea who Jesus Christ is.