What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[RLT63]

Have you ever asked why evidence for the man-is-god thesis in Scripture is always so cryptic and implied but explicitly states Jesus is the son of God?

No need to keep arguing over this point we just disagree

 

[Mr E]

But could a man who was just a man heal the sick and lame, raise the dead and walk on water? Even touching the helm of his garment healed a woman.

Ask Elisha if he was God. In answer to your question, a man could not-- but God working through a man? Yes.

 

[Johann]

Have you ever asked why evidence for the man-is-god thesis in Scripture is always so cryptic and implied but explicitly states Jesus is the son of God?

Let's do "cold case" and see if this detective is wrong

 

[Mr E]

Yes but I don't think any of them had been dead for four days and no other prophet came back from the dead themselves.

Ask Jonah. 3 days in the belly of a whale. Coughed up like a corpse. oh... and Lazarus? And a dead Moabite man who touched Elijah's bones? There are numerous examples of people who have come back from the dead and numerous examples of miracles performed by God through various instruments.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Col 2:8

¶
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

''Still no verse.''

 

[RLT63]

Ask Elisha if he was God. In answer to your question, a man could not-- but God working through a man? Yes.

Mat 11:2

¶
Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
Mat 11:3

And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
Mat 11:4

¶
Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
Mat 11:5

The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

 

[Mr E]

It was symbolic

No... it was physical.

 

[Johann]

God did not become a man.

Which Bible are you reading from? Arabic?

 

[RLT63]

Ask Jonah. 3 days in the belly of a whale. Coughed up like a corpse. oh... and Lazarus? And a dead Moabite man who touched Elijah's bones? There are numerous examples of people who have come back from the dead and numerous examples of miracles performed by God through various instruments.

Was it Elijah or Elisha?

 

[Matthias]

And who is greater than the prophets, David, Moses, Abraham?

No more dialogue aside, God and the Messiah.

 

[Matthias]

@Jack has a clear obsession which is unhealthy in and of itself, bordering on a compulsion- which is a disorder. I don't think he quite knows what to do with someone from a Southern Baptist foundation like yours, or an Evangelical background like mine, who simply disagree with a premise he might hold dear-- so he insists on trying to put a label on folks that he can otherwise dismiss. He's a one-trick pony.

Some people think I’m a one-trick pony. (Not the same pony Jack is riding, though.)

 

[Wrangler]

No need to keep arguing over this point we just disagree

It's a question, not an argument.

 

[Mr E]

Some people think I’m a one-trick pony. (Not the same pony Jack is riding, though.)

Whew! Just made it through the thread and I'm up to date on the conversation. I detest long threads like this, but this has been a good one despite those that have beaten ponies to death.

 

[Matthias]

That'll work. God's holy spirit is Jesus in substance/flesh.
The Trinitarians I've met insist Trinity means three separate and distinct persons.

They are serious too when they insist God has a personhood. And worse, some, not all, insisted Jesus ascended back to the father as,and remains in Heaven , a flesh and blood man.

I like that you’ve made your stance as a non-trinitarian clear. We have non-trinitarianism in common but diverge quickly after that.

 

[Matthias]

Whew! Just made it through the thread and I'm up to date on the conversation. I detest long threads like this, but this has been a good one despite those that have beaten ponies to death.

Ride hard or don’t ride at all!

 

[Wrangler]

If God became a man and offered his life for what Adam did, then the payment was way too much.

Outstanding point! I never heard it put that way before.

 

[Wrangler]

She gave ten reasons that you ignored, then deflected away from with another question. It's not honest inquiry and I've noticed a pattern.

Not an honest inquiry indeed!

 

[RLT63]

Outstanding point! I never heard it put that way before.

He wasn't redeeming only Adam. He suffered for everyone.

 

[Johann]

I’ve met thousands upon thousands of people who have no fear about having a deity which the Messia
h himself didn’t, doesn’t and never will. I fear for them.

And I fear for those who worship YHVH but ignore His Ben and Shem Bno!

Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
OJB

Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem [YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIS 1:1], and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
Joh 1:2 Bereshis (in the Beginning) this Dvar Hashem was with Hashem [Prov 8:30].
OJB
Joh 17:5 And now give me kavod, Avi, along with Yourself with the kavod which I was having with You before HaOlam came to be [Yn 1:1 3; Prov 8:30; 30:4]. Pre-existence of Yeshua along with the Father
OJB

Pro 8:30 Then I was etzel (at the side of, beside [see Yn 1:1]) Him, as an Amon (master craftsman, builder, architect, artist); and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him;
OJB

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended into Shomayim, or descended? Who hath gathered ruach in the hollows of His hands? Who hath bound the mayim in a cloak? Who hath established all the afsei aretz (ends of the earth)? What is Shmo (His Name), and what is Shem Bno (the Name of His Son [See Memra, creative Word of G-d in Targumim]), if thou canst tell?
OJB

In the light of these scriptures...


Jesus Prays to be Glorified
¶ Jesus said these things , and lifting up his eyes to heaven he said, “Father, the hour has come! Glorify your Son, in order that your Son may glorify you—
Joh 17:2 just as you have given him authority over all flesh, in order that he would give eternal life to them—everyone whom you have given him.
Joh 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified you on earth by [*Here “by ” is supplied as a component of the participle (“completing”) which is understood as means] completing the work that you have given me to do. [Literally “that I may do it”]
Joh 17:5 And now, Father, you glorify me at your side [Literally “by the side of yourself”] with the glory that I had at your side [Literally “by the side of you”] before the world existed. Pre-existence of Jesus along with the Father

Joh 17:6 Jesus Prays for His Disciples
¶ “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
Joh 17:7 Now they understand that all the things that [Literally “whatever”] you have given me are from you,
Joh 17:8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me.
Joh 17:9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,
Joh 17:10 and all my things are yours, and your things are mine, and I have been glorified in [Or “by”; or “through”] them.
Joh 17:11 And I am no longer in the world, and they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given to me, so that they may be one, just as we are .
Joh 17:12 When I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given to me, and guarded them , [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] and none of them has perished except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture would be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now I am coming to you, and I am saying these things in the world so that they may have my joy completed in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you protect them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth—your word is truth.
Joh 17:18 Just as you sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for them I sanctify myself, so that they themselves also may be sanctified in the truth.

Joh 17:20 Jesus Prays for the Unity of Believers
¶ “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—
Joh 17:23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

Joh 17:24 ¶ “Father, those whom you have given to me—I want that those also may be with me where I am, in order that they may see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. Pre-existence of Messiah along WITH the Av'di
Joh 17:25 Righteous Father, although the world does not know you, yet I have known you, and these men have come to know that you sent me.
Joh 17:26 And I made known to them your name, and will make it [*Here the direct object is supplied from context in the English translation] known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them, and I may be in them.”

Amen and Amen

 

[Wrangler]

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

''Still no verse.''

In this bottle dwells the fullness of a smooth 10 year old whiskey. That does not make me whiskey. So, you are right. Still no verse that says The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

Funny how trinitarians cannot help invoke Strawman. If they assert 1 verse supports the man-is-god thesis, that's almost like a trinity verse, when it is nothing like it at all. EVEN IF Jesus were God, 2 do not a trinity make. On top of the salvation requirement and equality condition completely missing.