What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[RLT63]

That’s right. That’s also one of the reasons, not the only reason, that I’m no longer a trinitarian.

Romans 5:15

 

[Matthias]

Romans 5:15

What is your commentary on the passage?

 

[RLT63]

What is your commentary on the passage?

The ark of the covenant was wood covered with gold. It was layered gold, wood, gold. It is a picture of Jesus. Jesus was God (gold) became a man (wood) then ascended to the Father ( gold) He is a man. He was fully human. He is also God the Son.

 

[Wrangler]

God makes Jesus God.
You argue against God's words in both old and new testaments that testify of that fact.

Oh, what verse says that God made Jesus God?

The problem with trinitarian claims is that there is not one shred of a Scriptural sentence that say anything like what your dogma is. This is God's word, 'For us, there is one God, the Father.' Simple. Direct. Irrefutable. Even a trinitarian can understand it.

Instead of accepting this simple and direct statement as the logical proof text destroying the illogical, inherently contradictory dogma that the Pagan 3-is-1-ism is, you jettison logic, itself. Jettison God's Logos and invoke mystical dualism and artificial synthesis (which is why you always resort to posting many verses. It's in here somewhere, if you believed it you would see it, hopefully something sticks), then have the audacity to claim I am arguing against God's words in both old and new testaments that testify of the fact that the Father alone is God.

It bears repeating; by quoting God's work directly, without imposing my own interpretation AND recognizing the logical implications of verses that destroy your dogma, you have the audacity to claim I am arguing against God's words in both old and new testaments! Such idolatry is seen nowhere else.

 

[Johann]

Remember @Johann, in trinitarian philosophy, Jesus is not a human person.

I don't go by the trinitarian "philosophy" but by what the scriptures says, by inferring that Yeshua is not human, that's a denial of the historical Messiah, His death, and resurrection. I am not saying you hold to that, but then again, anything is possible on a forum.
But to try and debunk the Triune Godhead, definitely found in Scripture, and reduce the Lord Christ Jesus, our great God and Savior to a mere "created being" is a heteros gospel, and a double curse is upon the person.


Gal 1:6 A Different Gospel
¶ I am astonished that you are turning away so quickly from the one who called you by the grace of Christ to a different gospel,
Gal 1:7 not that there is a different gospel , except there are some who are disturbing you and wanting to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed!
Gal 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone is proclaiming a gospel to you contrary to what you have received, let him be accursed!
Gal 1:10 For am I now making an appeal to people or to God? Or am I seeking to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ.

Remember

 

[Matthias]

The ark of the covenant was wood covered with gold. It was layered gold, wood, gold. It is a picture of Jesus. Jesus was God (gold) became a man (wood) then ascended to the Father ( gold) He is a man. He was fully human. He is also God the Son.

Thanks. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to say it but - for the sake of some here - that’s similar to, yet not, what I see in the passage.

 

[Johann]

That’s right. That’s also one of the reasons, not the only reason, that I’m no longer a trinitarian.

Problem here is, Matthew, I firmly and irrevocably believe in One in Being, Three in Person.
AJ is found wanting

 

[Matthias]

I don't go by the trinitarian "philosophy" but by what the scriptures says, by inferring that Yeshua is not human, that's a denial of the historical Messiah, His death, and resurrection. I am not saying you hold to that, but then again, anything is possible on a forum.
But to try and debunk the Triune Godhead, definitely found in Scripture, and reduce the Lord Christ Jesus, our great God and Savior to a mere "created being" is a heteros gospel, and a double curse is upon the person.


Gal 1:6 A Different Gospel
¶ I am astonished that you are turning away so quickly from the one who called you by the grace of Christ to a different gospel,
Gal 1:7 not that there is a different gospel , except there are some who are disturbing you and wanting to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed!
Gal 1:9 As we said before, and now I say again, if anyone is proclaiming a gospel to you contrary to what you have received, let him be accursed!
Gal 1:10 For am I now making an appeal to people or to God? Or am I seeking to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a slave of Christ.

If you don’t go by the trinitarian philosophy but by what the scripture says then you don’t go by the trinitarian philosophy affirmed by this Board. Personally, I don’t have an issue with that. I don’t go by trinitarian philosophy either. I go by what scripture says and understand it through the lens of the Messiah’s philosophy.

 

[Matthias]

Problem here is, Matthew, I firmly and irrevocably believe in One in Being, Three in Person.
AJ is found wanting

I firmly and irrevocably believe that the one God is one in being, one in person - the Father.

I understand Jesus as firmly and irrevocably believing that his [and my] God, the one God, is one in being, one in person - the Father.

 

[Johann]

Oh, what verse says that God made Jesus God?

Sounds like...“Did God indeed say,...?"

serpent. , Gen_3:13, Note: The Samaritan Copy, instead of nachash, ’a serpent,’ reads cachash, ’a liar, or deceiver,’ which is in harmony with the language of our Saviour, read Joh_8:44, 1Ch_4:12, Eze_28:13-14; Eze_28:16-17, Mat_23:33, 2Co_2:11; **2Co_11:3; **2Co_11:14, 1Th_3:5, Rev_12:9.

 

[RLT63]

Thanks. I don’t think it’s necessary for me to say it but - for the sake of some here - that’s similar to, yet not, what I see in the passage.

I don't know all the intracate details about the Trinity or if Jesus set his divinity aside during his earthly ministry or not. I only know what the Bible teaches. Knowledge of all the mysteries of the Godhead are not required for salvation. I think you could call Jesus God in the flesh.

 

[Wrangler]

the Messiah’s philosophy

Born a Jew, under the law, compelled to believe God, who we relate to as Father, is one and not 3-is-1. There is no evidence Jesus ever stopped being Jewish. This is the Messiah's philosophy.

 

[Johann]

If you don’t go by the trinitarian philosophy but by what the scripture says then you don’t go by the trinitarian philosophy affirmed by this Board.

And what exactly is affirmed by the Board? Sounds like a threat to me.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't know all the intracate details about the Trinity

You do realize the trinity is not in the Bible, right? It's such an important doctrine, neither the word, nor the concept is mentioned once in 66 books! Profound.

 

[Johann]

I understand Jesus as firmly and irrevocably believing that his [and my] God, the one God, is one in being, one in person - the Father.

So why are you here "hounding" others who do hold to the Triune Godhead? Are you seeking to proselytizing them to the wrong camp?

 

[Johann]

You do realize the trinity is not in the Bible, right? It's such an important doctrine, neither the word, nor the concept is mentioned once in 66 books! Profound.

..and so profoundly scriptural, astonishing!

 

[Johann]

I understand Jesus as firmly and irrevocably believing that his [and my] God, the one God, is one in being, one in person - the Father.

Just by reading these typed letters, the way you put it, makes no sense at all, but then, it is your prerogative to believe like this, and it is my prerogative to believe what the scriptures says.

 

[Matthias]

I don't know all the intracate details about the Trinity…

I think the first detail you should look into is trinitarianism insisting, as it must, that Jesus is not a human person.

In my experience, 80% (maybe more) of trinitarians are unaware that trinitarianism requires Jesus not to be a human person. In the classroom setting, very few of my trinitarian students were aware of it. It was only after they did their homework - looking at the details, to use your phrasing - that they truly affirmed trinitarianism.

… or if Jesus set his divinity aside during his earthly ministry or not. I only know what the Bible teaches.

You’ve said that you know that the Bible teaches that Jesus is a human person. (I know it too.) I hope you’ll investigate the assertion of trinitarianism (as I have) that Jesus isn’t a human person - that we’re reading the Bible incorrectly if we think it teaches that Jesus is a human person.

Knowledge of all the mysteries of the Godhead are not required for salvation.

Please pardon my Greek - to gehenna with the Athanasian Creed’s insistence that it is.

 

[Johann]

I don't know all the intracate details about the Trinity or if Jesus set his divinity aside during his earthly ministry or not. I only know what the Bible teaches. Knowledge of all the mysteries of the Godhead are not required for salvation.

Not for nothing he is called "the hound of Jewish monotheism"

 

[Matthias]

Just by reading these typed letters, the way you put it, makes no sense at all, but then, it is your prerogative to believe like this, and it is my prerogative to believe what the scriptures says.

Have you read what Tertullian - a “trinitarian” whose concept of the Trinity is incompatible with historical trinitarian orthodoxy - said about heretics?