Did you have a point to make?
"A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text."
What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God
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Did you have a point to make?
"A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text."
Roger dodger. Hide under your grammar's skirt.
I didn't think you could reconcile them. Those verses demonstrate that Jesus could not be God.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
It's no mystery. We have the word of an angel that what was conceived in Mary was of the Holy Spirit. It was a much greater miracle than old women having babies because no man was involved in Mary's pregnancy. Without the immaculate conception there would be no lamb without spot or blemish to sacrifice
Oh great! I'd love for you to explain the science of it since there is no mystery. I'll wait. Biology and DNA are my jam.
An unnecessary Hail Mary has been thrown, with time still on the clock. Start a thread on it.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Science and the Bible are incompatible. We all know that the earth orbits the sun and is held in place by the gravitational force. But in Genesis the sun wasn't created until the 4th day. What held the earth in place before then? How did we have an evening and a morning? It had to be a miracle. The same way a virgin got pregnant without a man.
How very young of you.
Those verses demonstrate you are opposed to the divinity of Christ.
lol.... Before Blue Dragonfly-- I am.
Just waive the white flag and move on. Of Christ? No. Of Jesus-- absolutely. Learn the difference.
Ah Mr.Ed, there you are.
Christ Jesus. Jesus the Christ.
I know far more than you give me credit for. And all Christians here know what you do not.Nor ever shall.
Pure posturing and more deflection- why not just tackle those verses that are irreconcilable within your theology?
Please don’t try to make things personal.
The person I quoted is a former trinitarian student of mine. I preserved his anonymity simply because I haven’t obtained his permission to quote him. He was expressing his rationale; a rationale held by trinitarians but also by binitarians and some unitarians.
Jesus wasn’t a human person in trinitarian theology. He was one person, and that a divine person, who took upon himself impersonal human nature at the Incarnation.
The average trinitarian typically asserts - against historical orthodox trinitarianism - that Jesus was a human person, denies that trinitarianism teaches that Jesus was not a human person, and becomes hostile when quotes from trinitarian theologians and scholars are presented on the matter. (I’ve seen it played out on multiple online discussion forums, including this one.) This particular student was very well informed about historical orthodox trinitarian theology before ever setting foot in my classroom.
The New Testament confirms that Jesus is the prophet like Moses. God was in Jesus the same way he was in all of the prophets.
I don’t have one. I think I recall you either saying or implying that you aren’t, but I’m not certain.
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
Yea He doesn't voliate His own laws, women at their own birth have all the eggs they will ever need some 1 million of them yet not one was used to create the human vessel. The first Adam was formed from the dirt of the ground. the waste of dead trees and plants, organisms rocks etc. The second Adam was formed from the discarded lining the waste of the urtus.
You should have stayed in school till at least graduating human reproduction 101.
I send my my deepest compassion to your mother.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Whaoh...not so fast....true and evidential science is absolutely backed up by the Bible....who created what science studies?
It is evident that the creative "days" were not 24 hour periods. The Hebrew word for "day" (yôm) can also mean a period of unspecified length. What is time to a timeless Creator? Each day could have been thousands or even millions of years long. He was not constrained by the rotation of our small planet.
Its taken us over 4,000 years to even begin to understand genetics, so imagine what we can learn about life and the natural world in another 4,000 years!
What is NOT backed up by the Bible is theoretical science....which is based on assumption, conjecture and supposition....you know, those things that some people want to use to make the Bible say things that it doesn't....
Nope, not correct. What does Genesis 1:1 say?
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." It is clear that "the heavens" here means the Universe, which would include our solar system...our sun as well as all the other planets orbiting it, in the Milky Way galaxy of which we are but a small speck....And then there are the billions of other galaxies that we now know exist, thanks to science and technology.
We know that it wasn't the spiritual heavens because the Bible says that the angels were observing God's creation with great interest, and when it was complete they all shouted for joy. (Job 38:4-7)
What does it say next? "And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light."
Where did this "light" come from? A newly created sun? No!
Job 38:4, 9...Job was asked....
"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding. . . . .When I made a cloud its garment,
And thick darkness its swaddling bands".
If the sun was already in existence, and the earth was in darkness because of cloud layers, then removing some of the clouds layers would allow the light to penetrate to the earth's surface....enough for plants to photosynthesize....and day and night to be distinguished. But still the sun, moon and stars were not yet visible.
Vs 14-16.... "Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and they shall serve as signs and for seasons, and for days and years; 15 and they shall serve as lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also."
Again, since the heavenly bodies were already in existence, removing more of the cloud layers made them clearly visible from the earth's surface.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The same gravitational force that kept it in place from the beginning.
Yes...a miracle of creation...not an act of magic. We know that it is earth's rotation that creates day and night. And did you notice something else that shows it wasn't a 24 hour day?
"There was evening and morning".....how long is it between evening and morning here on earth? That is only 12 earth hours. But Peter tells us that with God, 'a thousand years seems like just one day'. (2 Peter 3:8)
This was the result of God using his spirit to accomplish his will. So, of course it was a miracle. But the Mary was not without sin. The child in her womb was sinless because of how he was created. The Bible does not teach that Mary (a descendant of Adam) was sinless however....nor does it teach that Mary was ever virgin.....you will find many of the titles and attributes of Mary are borrowed from ancient mother goddess worship. They are certainly not biblical. And many pre-date Christianity by centuries.
Do you see the similarity?
Something else they have in common....the nimbus (halo)
which is not mentioned at all in scripture but evident in these ancient statues.
These are a relic of sun worship. Nothing whatever to do with Christianity.
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
lol how about this one, men are far more reproductive than women, We produce some 8 billion living swimming tadpoles throughout the reproductive cycle of men haha.
And, if you're a Liberal, you can get pregnant.
Let those little tads surprise ya.
Lends a whole different visual to the word, woman doesn't it.
Can Men Get Pregnant? Outcomes for Transgender and Cisgender Men
Dem witness tells House committee men can get pregnant, have abortions
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