Daniels 70-Weeks Timeline

[Spiritual Israelite]

Too bad god was having a bad day and decided not to inspire that this 7 year covenant ended the efficacy of the sacrifices.

Normal people read that and understand it to mean the physical acts of sacrifice end.

Normal people? LOL! What does that even mean? You mean people who don't use spiritual discernment when interpreting scripture?

Also, you need to capitalize God.

That is what God inspired to write! I don't think He needs an editor

LOL! What does this even mean? Do you think everything in scripture is written in a literal, straightforward way where everything is always spelled out for us? Clearly not! So, what is your point?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The forthcoming worldwide disaster of a similar magnitude as Noah's flood, will be the event which comes unexpectedly; as a thief.
The glorious Return will come much later; exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated. It will be the time of Great Tribulation, the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls.
Proved by Revelation 12:14, when the faithful peoples are kept safe for that time.

Thinking that Jesus comes to reign over a destroyed world, is what is illogical and confusing.

Thinking that Jesus will come to reign on this earth at all is illogical and confusing. He has been reigning for a long time already and will deliver the kingdom to the Father when He returns, just as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is not even a proper exegesis of the passage. Just pure speculation! If Messiah was "cut off" before the coming of "the prince that shall come" (and that would be over 2,000 years before), how could He confirm the covenant, which was only TEMPORARY according to Daniel?

The covenant is not temporary. It doesn't reference the duration of the covenant, it references the amount of time it takes to confirm the eternal new covenant.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Which is simply laughable.

That you disagree shows a laughable lack of discernment on your part. How can you not understand that the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Jesus? Who else but Jesus could fulfill the things listed in Daniel 9:24? Open your eyes.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree that only the elect, that is: all the faithful Christian peoples will be saved and will go into the Millennium.

How can that be when we will all be changed to have immortal bodies at the last trumpet when Christ returns (1 Cor 15:50-54)? There will be no mortals on the earth at that point to populate this supposed, non-existent future Millennium.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Normal people? LOL! What does that even mean? You mean people who don't use spiritual discernment when interpreting scripture?

Also, you need to capitalize God.

Ah! Just like covenantee. You cannot defend your position biblically, cannot rebut my position biblically so you resort to the attacks on my spelling.

Normal people? No people who simply believe what is written as it is written. Spiritual discernment is just a disguise for you and your covenanttee counter part to have license to reinterpret Scripture to suit your agenda, what ever that may be.

LOL! What does this even mean? Do you think everything in scripture is written in a literal, straightforward way where everything is always spelled out for us? Clearly not! So, what is your point?

No, but I follow what is the golden rule of biblical understanding:

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),
founder of The Biblical Research Societ

I fully recognize that teh bible uses symbols, parables, visions and apocalyptic language. I also know god doesn't trust mankind ( as is shown plainly on this thread) to "interpret things". so the Bible interprets all of its symbolisms, visions, drewams, parabvles and apocalyptic language. And when it doesn't we should not draw absolute conclusions, but simple possibilities.

That is how we are taught to read and understand every other piece of literature. If it is not to be the way we look at the bible, I await your defense of your reinterpreting teh palin words to have them mean something different.

One of your classic reinterpretation s is the Daniel passagfe we are debating.

YOu say the seocnd prince mentioned is Jesus! I showed why it cannot be literally, grammatically and linguistically, nor historically.
You put he church in this passage but yet the entire 490 years is for Jews. so you spiritualize Jew to make it any believer.
It specifically says the second prince named makes a 7 year covenant with Israel. You say it is Jesus , but you cannot point to one covenant Jesus made with Israel that is 7 years in duration.
You say th esacrifcews and oblations cease means there usefulness ceased- and that is all. But that is not what it says. It say8s the physical sacxrifices and oblations will be caused to end. you are guilty of the typoical thing covenant people do, " I know this is what teh bible says, but this is what it really means". Like you are Gods editor! Hogwash!

 

[covenantee]

Ah! Just like covenantee. You cannot defend your position biblically, cannot rebut my position biblically so you resort to the attacks on my spelling.

Normal people? No people who simply believe what is written as it is written. Spiritual discernment is just a disguise for you and your covenanttee counter part to have license to reinterpret Scripture to suit your agenda, what ever that may be.



No, but I follow what is the golden rule of biblical understanding:

“When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),
founder of The Biblical Research Societ

I fully recognize that teh bible uses symbols, parables, visions and apocalyptic language. I also know god doesn't trust mankind ( as is shown plainly on this thread) to "interpret things". so the Bible interprets all of its symbolisms, visions, drewams, parabvles and apocalyptic language. And when it doesn't we should not draw absolute conclusions, but simple possibilities.

That is how we are taught to read and understand every other piece of literature. If it is not to be the way we look at the bible, I await your defense of your reinterpreting teh palin words to have them mean something different.

One of your classic reinterpretation s is the Daniel passagfe we are debating.

YOu say the seocnd prince mentioned is Jesus! I showed why it cannot be literally, grammatically and linguistically, nor historically.
You put he church in this passage but yet the entire 490 years is for Jews. so you spiritualize Jew to make it any believer.
It specifically says the second prince named makes a 7 year covenant with Israel. You say it is Jesus , but you cannot point to one covenant Jesus made with Israel that is 7 years in duration.
You say th esacrifcews and oblations cease means there usefulness ceased- and that is all. But that is not what it says. It say8s the physical sacxrifices and oblations will be caused to end. you are guilty of the typoical thing covenant people do, " I know this is what teh bible says, but this is what it really means". Like you are Gods editor! Hogwash!

You haven't responded to posts 273 or 290.

Why not?

 

[Christian Gedge]

Reformed, Methodist, Presbyterian, Wesleyan, Church of Christ, Church of God (Anderson Indiana), Nazarene, Primitive Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican, Puritan.

And many individual Baptists, Pentecostals, Open Brethren.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Are you suggesting that a covenant for 7 years was confirmed with many in 33 or 34 AD?

Yes; it took seven years (AD27 to AD34) to confirm the covenant which was first promised to the patriarchs and finally fulfilled in Christ. Here is your verse:

For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.”
(Romans 15:8-9)​

 

[ScottA]

Yes; it took seven years (AD27 to AD34) to confirm the covenant which was first promised to the patriarchs and finally fulfilled in Christ. Here is your verse:

For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.”
(Romans 15:8-9)​

True enough...but it is the smaller meaning, only a confirmation that validates Christ during that generation.

The meaning of "week" is rather the term "seven", which in the larger picture of prophecy, speaks of the overall times of creation (also depicted by the creation story). In that larger prophecy, in the midst of "a time, times, and half a time" Christ indeed confirms the covenant with Israel who came before the cross, and also with the gentiles after the cross--the two folds that He "must bring"--which fulfills the daily sacrifice given to Israel as "a light unto the gentiles."

 

[dad]

Yes; it took seven years (AD27 to AD34) to confirm the covenant which was first promised to the patriarchs and finally fulfilled in Christ. Here is your verse:

For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised to show God’s truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs, and in order that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written, “Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles, and sing to your name.”
(Romans 15:8-9)​

It does not say what promises. I would think it means the promises that messiah would come, be born in Bethlehem, ride a donkey in Jerusalem,save us from our sins, rise from the dead, etc etc. In no way does it mean that the abomination of desolation Daniel spoke of would not be actually set up and that instead, Christ fulfilled that 'promise' or etc. So we can rule that out.

I find it amazing that almost no matter which way we look at it, the years in Dan 9 end up in the time of Jesus! Now I understand why some quibble over a day or two, trying to pinpoint it to the time Jesus rode into Jerusalem. But no one really knows in perfect detail when Jesus was born or died I think I have heard before. Therefore maybe it could be it all works out perfectly. What we do know is that it did end up in the time of Jesus. No one else could ever fulfill that now.

 

[dad]

True enough...but it is the smaller meaning, only a confirmation that validates Christ during that generation.

The meaning of "week" is rather the term "seven", which in the larger picture of prophecy, speaks of the overall times of creation (also depicted by the creation story). In that larger prophecy, in the midst of "a time, times, and half a time" Christ indeed confirms the covenant with Israel who came before the cross, and also with the gentiles after the cross--the two folds that He "must bring"--which fulfills the daily sacrifice given to Israel as "a light unto the gentiles."

The covenant is not just with Israel. He will confirm that with many. Then break his word, There is no possible fit to this being Jesus.

 

[covenantee]

The covenant is not just with Israel. He will confirm that with many. Then break his word, There is no possible fit to this being Jesus.

The Covenant was initially with Israel.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...

In Christ's ministry, He confirmed His Everlasting Covenant through the Gospel in person with the many Israelites who accepted Him for 3 1/2 years until His death, then His disciples confirmed it in their ministries to the Israelites for the remaining 3 1/2 years, which in total comprised the 70th week.

Thereafter, the Gentiles were included as well, and the Gospel was proclaimed to both Israelites and Gentiles until the destruction of Israel in 70 AD.

The Everlasting Covenant has been proclaimed and will be proclaimed through the Gospel to the many who have received and will receive it (Matthew 26:28) until Christ returns.

This was the united understanding of the historic orthodox Christian Church for 17 centuries.

 

[dad]

The Covenant was initially with Israel.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people...

That verse doesn't do it for you. The time is how much time God set aside for dealing with Israel. That includes that last seven years. It does not say that the covenant that the AC breaks was just with Israel at all!

In Christ's ministry, He confirmed His Everlasting Covenant through the Gospel in person with the many Israelites who accepted Him for 3 1/2 years until His death, then His disciples confirmed it in their ministries to the Israelites for the remaining 3 1/2 years, which in total comprised the 70th week.

Say what? Jesus made no covenant for 3 1/2 years, that was how long His ministry was. In the years after His death and resurrection, there was no 3 1/2 year period either! Certainly not in which Israel was destroyed and the abomination set up! There was no BREAKING a covenant either! Your claims are unsound and false.

The Everlasting Covenant has been proclaimed and will be proclaimed through the Gospel to the many who have received and will receive it (Matthew 26:28) until Christ returns.

The abomination is not set up in the middle of any everlasting covenant! Absurd.

This was the united understanding of the historic orthodox Christian Church for 17 centuries.

If that is true, they were clueless.

 

[covenantee]

That verse doesn't do it for you. The time is how much time God set aside for dealing with Israel. That includes that last seven years. It does not say that the covenant that the AC breaks was just with Israel at all!
Say what? Jesus made no covenant for 3 1/2 years, that was how long His ministry was. In the years after His death and resurrection, there was no 3 1/2 year period either! Certainly not in which Israel was destroyed and the abomination set up! There was no BREAKING a covenant either! Your claims are unsound and false.

The abomination is not set up in the middle of any everlasting covenant! Absurd.
If that is true, they were clueless.

This is so risible that it doesn't warrant any response. However...

That verse doesn't do it for you. The time is how much time God set aside for dealing with Israel. That includes that last seven years. It does not say that the covenant that the AC breaks was just with Israel at all!

Highlight "AC" and "breaks" in the passage for all of us.

 

[Christian Gedge]

The abomination is not set up in the middle of any everlasting covenant! Absurd.

Is it absurd to say that the 'overspreading abominations' was the reinstatement of animal sacrifice in defiance of Christ's finished work? As Covenantee has been saying, this was the standard view of the historical church. Take for example, the historian Eusebius (Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 8 Chapter 2 – From Daniel):

"And he will confirm a Covenant with many one week," and in half the week the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and on the Holy Place shall come the abomination of desolation, and until the fullness of time fullness shall be given to the desolation ...

... moreover, half through this (Daniel 70th) week, during which He confirmed the said Covenant with many, the sacrifice and libation was taken away, and the abomination of desolation began, for in the middle of this week after the three-and-a-half days of His Teaching, at the time when He suffered, the Veil of the Temple was torn asunder from the top to the bottom, so that in effect from that time sacrifice and libation were taken away, and the abomination of desolation stood in the holy place, inasmuch as the Being had left them desolate ...

... At his Passion the Veil of the Temple was wholly rent in twain, and from that moment the sacrifice and libation well pleasing to God according to the ordinance of the Law was in effect taken away, and when it was removed, the abomination of desolation, as the prophecy before us says, appeared in its place.​

 

[covenantee]

If that is true, they were clueless.

Who is clueless?

1. All historical defenders of the true Christian faith over 17 centuries.
2. dad

Real easy answer.

 

[dad]

This is so risible that it doesn't warrant any response. However...



Highlight "AC" and "breaks" in the passage for all of us.

Highlight where Jesus breaks a covenant? The bible tells us that the AntiChrist will break one in the middle of seven years. That is news?

 

[dad]

Is it absurd to say that the 'overspreading abominations' was the reinstatement of animal sacrifice in defiance of Christ's finished work?

Correct. Nonsensical. There was no taking away the daily sacrifice 42 months later. No setting up of the abomination etc. No relation or connection.

As Covenantee has been saying, this was the standard view of the historical church.

They could not have defended such lunacy any more than you can.

Take for example, the historian Eusebius (Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 8 Chapter 2 – From Daniel):

"And he will confirm a Covenant with many one week," and in half the week the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and on the Holy Place shall come the abomination of desolation, and until the fullness of time fullness shall be given to the desolation ...​

That is vague. What fullness of what time exactly? There was no seven year period when Jesus died at all. No abomination etc etc.

... moreover, half through this (Daniel 70th) week, during which He confirmed the said Covenant with many, the sacrifice and libation was taken away, and the abomination of desolation began,

That is foolishness we know that no three and a half year clock till the end started ticked a few years after Jesus died. No AntiChrist took away the daily sacrifice etc etc etc.

for in the middle of this week after the three-and-a-half days of His Teaching,

Days of teaching?? What utter nonsense is that? There is no such thing in the last seven years.

at the time when He suffered, the Veil of the Temple was torn asunder from the top to the bottom, so that in effect from that time sacrifice and libation were taken away, and the abomination of desolation stood in the holy place

False teaching. From the time the abomination is set up there shall be so many months and days and years. Precisely. Who ran from their houses 3 years after Jesus (or any time before) without even taking anything? When did a leader give all the world a mark to be able to buy or sell? Where was the image that spoke and caused all people on earth to die if they did not worship the leader?? Etc.

, inasmuch as the Being had left them desolate ...

Pathetic grasping at straws, trying to latch onto a word (desolate) as if that made the end time things fit the time of Jesus!!​

Hard to believe anyone would put such ideas in a post, they are so openly false and ridiculous.

 

[dad]

Who is clueless?

1. All historical defenders of the true Christian faith over 17 centuries.
2. dad

Real easy answer.

Appeal to popularity (at least in your mind you seem to think the so called church leaders were anyone to look up to or listen to. I suggest they were people to protect your kids against)