The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

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Timtofly

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Yes, they are. You are clueless.

Why does it have to be the entire earth burned up and annihilated? Peter also talked about the earth being destroyed by the flood, but does that mean the earth was annihilated? Try something else. This argument you're trying to use is as weak as can be.
You have no symbolic discernment about what John is saying. You are too literal. You are a soul right now without a body in this thread. Does that mean you literally don't have a body at all?

You are the one saying the earth is totally gone and also only burned up on the surface at the same time. Make up your mind. Stop avoiding one for the other.

Can someone die after putting on immortality? If not, does that not mean they are immortal, which just means they can't die? You waste so much time with these useless arguments over semantics. It's all you have. You're unable to form a coherent argument to back up anything you say, so you resort to nonsense like this instead.

Because putting on immortality is not putting on a body. It is putting on the spirit and being glorified. If God wanted you to live forever, you don't even need a body. That is being just a soul as you claim for those in Revelation 20:4. You never let them put on a body nor a spirit.

I am just using your own logical arguments. I take it every time people talk about immortal, they are referring to your definition of immortal then? You have convinced the world that is how they should interpret the word?
 
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Timtofly

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Have you ever seen someone deny that Matthew 25:31 is about Christ's second coming before? It smacks of complete desperation.
You deny it means coming to Jerusalem and setting up a throne that Satan may or may not sit in at the end of the age.

Is Paul correct in saying Satan will claim to be God in God's throne? 2 Thessalonians 2:4
 

Marty fox

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A dead human is no longer on the earth. A dead human is a dead sinner. Not a living sinner and sin does not enter the world.

Adam kept living in a dead condition called sin. The instant a child disobeys they are dead. Not like Adam's sinful corruptible dead flesh. A person who disobeys is no longer enjoying life, but dead dead. There is no recovering from that state.

Do you not understand that when Adam disobeyed, he let sin into the world? That will not happen in the Millennium. You only disobey one time and you are gone.

We disobey and sin, because sin is in the world. Adam did not have a sin nature nor was there sin in the world. The first time Adam disobeyed, not the umpteenth time, Adam literally physically died and literally spiritually died. That was it for Adam, he was dead. And now living in death, a functioning mortal (death).

The condition we are in now, is not the human condition in the Millennium. One chance and you are gone. If there was sin and a sin nature all would be gone, and the earth empty. So disobedience is not a contradiction, because disobedience is simply breaking the law. Not breaking the law while in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The point now is no one can even obey the law. It is impossible.

Breaking the law in the Millennium will be impossible. However if you do, it will only happen once and then you end up in the LOF when Death is emptied out. But Death is not living on earth as we do in Adam's dead flesh. Death is where one goes instead of going to sheol today.

Before Adam there was no disobedience, because there was no law, and no sin. Now we cannot keep any law, because our sinful nature constantly condemns us to a state of death. In the Millennium there will be laws, but no sin, because people will naturally obey all the laws and suffer no consequences.

The ability to disobey is not a contradiction. It is considered a curse, and that individual is removed from society. Sin does not enter, and people don't live in a dead state of a sinful nature.

Paul does not call Adam's disobedience sin:

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

I call what Adam did disobedience, not sin, because sin is not a thing. Sin was not in the world. Adam could not have sinned, until he died, and in a state of death. Adam is a type of Christ. Christ obeyed God in all things in His human form, thus a sinless Lamb. Adam disobeyed and broke type, so he lived on in a state of sin, that he passed on to all of us. All those in Christ receive the state of no sin.

But at the Second Coming there is the complete restoration as a son of God.

So Adam did not sin until after sin entered, and after death reigned. Adam disobeyed. That is why Paul said all sinners are not the same as Adam's transgression. Only Adam could disobey God. Eve could not disobey God, because it was Adam's choice to disobey God. You can argue semantics and claim they were the same flesh, but Paul did not. Eve was the one deceived, not Adam.

So once again in the Millennium it will be like it was before Adam disobeyed. But no one will bring sin into the world like Adam did. All they can do is remove themselves from life itself. That is why it is called Death, and not just a place of punishment. Death is the place where those wait who have been removed from the Lamb's book of life. There is no life or getting a second resurrection out of that spiritual death. The death of rejecting the Atonement, and marked for doing so.

Even those born in the Millennium were still all written in the Lamb's book of life before creation and still part of the Atonement Covenant. They are not born into Adam's dead corruptible flesh. But disobedience is still a thing with laws still being a thing, but not the OT Covenant from Sinai. This is that new covenant promised after the 70th week is over. And not the NT Covenant based on Adam's dead state. It is the Covenant of the iron rod, except all are naturally born into obedience. Only, according to Isaiah one can still disobey, but immediately removed, and it will not happen to those past 100 years of age. Which once again, at the end, the largest demographic on earth will be those under 100 years of age born in the last 100 years. The one's who will listen to Satan and an easier target. Just like Eve who was the vulnerable target to get to Adam.

You keep contradicting yourself you just said this.



“Do you not understand that when Adam disobeyed, he let sin into the world? That will not happen in the Millennium. You only disobey one time and you are gone.”

You just said that sin wouldn’t enter the millennium and then you just admitted that sin will enter the millennium.

If someone in the millennium sins and hurts someone and then as you say the person who sins in then gone the result of that sin on the person who was hurt is still there. Thus the result of sin is still there thus sin will remain in the millennium.
 

Timtofly

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You keep contradicting yourself you just said this.



“Do you not understand that when Adam disobeyed, he let sin into the world? That will not happen in the Millennium. You only disobey one time and you are gone.”

You just said that sin wouldn’t enter the millennium and then you just admitted that sin will enter the millennium.

If someone in the millennium sins and hurts someone and then as you say the person who sins in then gone the result of that sin on the person who was hurt is still there. Thus the result of sin is still there thus sin will remain in the millennium.

Now you are just making up scenarios. Why would God allow any one to be hurt? That does not make sense.

You seem to underestimate this iron rod rule. Sin is not tolerated. Your scenarios will not work. You cannot just plant sin into the Millennium yourself with your imagination.

I did not admit sin can enter the Millennium. You can only reject God's Word.
 
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Marty fox

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Now you are just making up scenarios. Why would God allow any one to be hurt? That does not make sense.

You seem to underestimate this iron rod rule. Sin is not tolerated. Your scenarios will not work. You cannot just plant sin into the Millennium yourself with your imagination.

I did not admit sin can enter the Millennium. You can only reject God's Word.

Once again you said this

““Do you not understand that when Adam disobeyed, he let sin into the world? That will not happen in the Millennium. You only disobey one time and you are gone.”

You just admitted that sin will be in the millennium.
 

Timtofly

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Once again you said this

““Do you not understand that when Adam disobeyed, he let sin into the world? That will not happen in the Millennium. You only disobey one time and you are gone.”

You just admitted that sin will be in the millennium.
No I did not. I keep saying there will be no sin in the millennium. You keep putting words into my post that are not there.
 

Marty fox

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No I did not. I keep saying there will be no sin in the millennium. You keep putting words into my post that are not there.

I'm just quoting your own words one again here they are below

"You only disobey one time and you are gone.”
 

Timtofly

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I'm just quoting your own words one again here they are below

"You only disobey one time and you are gone.”
That is not sin entering, nor sin period. That is the point. There was no sin, and Adam did not sin. Adam disobeyed the only command in the Garden. He did not do it once a day. He did not sin by thinking about it. He did not have to confess to God each day, because he took one small bite every once in a while.
 

Marty fox

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That is not sin entering, nor sin period. That is the point. There was no sin, and Adam did not sin. Adam disobeyed the only command in the Garden. He did not do it once a day. He did not sin by thinking about it. He did not have to confess to God each day, because he took one small bite every once in a while.

What are you talking about Adam didn’t sin?

Disobedience is sin. He didn’t have to do it once a day he sinned once and was banished from the garden.

I didn’t say he sinned by thinking about it but Jesus did say if you look at a woman with lust it’s as bad as acting on it.

I’m not sure why your saying he didn’t have to confess each day or took a bite once in a while I didn’t say that.
 

Timtofly

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What are you talking about Adam didn’t sin?

Disobedience is sin. He didn’t have to do it once a day he sinned once and was banished from the garden.

I didn’t say he sinned by thinking about it but Jesus did say if you look at a woman with lust it’s as bad as acting on it.

I’m not sure why your saying he didn’t have to confess each day or took a bite once in a while I didn’t say that.
Because Adam did not have the nature to sin, until after he disobeyed the one time that allowed Death and sin. You cannot apply all those verses to Adam prior to that one act of disobedience.

Adam was the only one whose disobedience would bring sin into the world.

During the Millennium, there is no Adamic punishment and sin as disobedience. But instead of Jesus disobeying God to bring sin back into the world, an act of disobedience is immediate death. So disobedience is not natural. Disobedience is not sin, nor will disobedience bring sin into the world. That is the iron rod rule, that disobedience will be immediately crushed in death.

I agree that disobedience is viewd as sin now, but no one can obey the law in all things. In our sin nature and dead state it is impossible to please God. All we have is the Atonement that satisfies the wrath of God.

In righteousness and the lack of sin and a sin nature, it will be impossible to disobey. Yet if that does happen, it is instant Death. So no, sin does not take root. Nor can enter creation.

Now it is impossible to obey, yet some do, and it is not natural. In the Millennium it will be impossible to disobey, but Isaiah states some may, but it is not natural, they are accursed.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Start a thread on this, one point at a time and I will address it. This thread is for exposing errors of Amillennialism.
Amils should be able to challenge these supposed errors and you should be able to respond to those challenges. This thread is a sham. It's just a bunch of claims that you can't back up.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You have no symbolic discernment about what John is saying. You are too literal.
LOL. No Premil has ever accused me of that before. Thanks for the laugh.

You are the one saying the earth is totally gone and also only burned up on the surface at the same time. Make up your mind. Stop avoiding one for the other.
I'm not saying both. Do you have anything to offer besides false accusations? To say that the earth is destroyed or burned up does not have to equate to saying it will be completely annihilated even to the core. We talk about the earth being destroyed by the flood, but that doesn't mean it was annihilated. So, I see the earth being destroyed and burned up in the same context of what happened with the flood. And Peter spoke about both in the same context in 2 Peter 3:5-7 as well by directly comparing those two events to each other.

So, there it is. I have clarified my view yet again. If you still don't understand what I believe then you're just not trying.

Because putting on immortality is not putting on a body. It is putting on the spirit and being glorified. If God wanted you to live forever, you don't even need a body. That is being just a soul as you claim for those in Revelation 20:4. You never let them put on a body nor a spirit.

I am just using your own logical arguments. I take it every time people talk about immortal, they are referring to your definition of immortal then? You have convinced the world that is how they should interpret the word?
Scripture talks about us having immortal bodies, so that is what I'm talking about. Everyone else here can understand what the term immortal means in relation to scripture, so I'm not going to change the terms I use just to cater to you.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Stop whining and start your own thread on it.
Translation: You are not able to defend the claims you are making in this thread, which makes this thread pointless. Why don't you just admit that then trying to make me stop pointing out how weak your arguments are? Don't tell me what to do. You're talking about these things in this thread, so you should be willing to back up the claims you're making in this thread. That isn't too much to ask. But, you're clearly trying to get out of backing up your claims. You know you can't.
 
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ewq1938

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Translation: You are not able to defend the claims you are making in this thread, which makes this thread pointless.


You won't start a thread on your supposed Premillennial errors proving you just want to derail this thread.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You won't start a thread on your supposed Premillennial errors proving you just want to derail this thread.
LOL. Keep avoiding backing up your claims then. Can only assume it's because you can't. How is it derailing a thread when you respond to claims made within the thread? That's ridiculous.

In case you somehow didn't notice, a thread called "22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine" was already started a little while back about Premillennial errors and that has been an ongoing thread with a lot of posts, so why would I need to start another one?
 

Timtofly

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LOL. No Premil has ever accused me of that before. Thanks for the laugh.

I'm not saying both. Do you have anything to offer besides false accusations? To say that the earth is destroyed or burned up does not have to equate to saying it will be completely annihilated even to the core. We talk about the earth being destroyed by the flood, but that doesn't mean it was annihilated. So, I see the earth being destroyed and burned up in the same context of what happened with the flood. And Peter spoke about both in the same context in 2 Peter 3:5-7 as well by directly comparing those two events to each other.

So, there it is. I have clarified my view yet again. If you still don't understand what I believe then you're just not trying.

Scripture talks about us having immortal bodies, so that is what I'm talking about. Everyone else here can understand what the term immortal means in relation to scripture, so I'm not going to change the terms I use just to cater to you.
If the earth does not pass away, why the difference between the works burned up or the whole earth burned up?

The permanent incorruptible physical body puts on the spirit/immortality. We don't put on an immortal physical body, over the incorruptible physical body. The physical body is put on over the soul, and the spirit is put on over the incorruptible physical body.

You are the one that calls for a spiritual body. The spirit would be a spiritual spirit. The body is a physical body.

Being glorified is putting on the spirit, and John in Revelation 6 symbolizes that as a robe of white. A robe is put on over the permanent physical body.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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If the earth does not pass away, why the difference between the works burned up or the whole earth burned up?
The works are the man-made things on the earth. The natural things on the earth like trees, grass, and so on, will be burned up as well. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

The permanent incorruptible physical body puts on the spirit/immortality.
That's not taught anywhere in scripture. Instead, Paul taught that at the last trumpet we will be changed and then will have an incorruptible, immortal spiritual body. The words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing, so it's ludicrous to suggest that people will first have an incorruptible body and then later have an immortal body.

You are the one that calls for a spiritual body.
Are you denying that when the dead in Christ are resurrected and all of us are changed we will have a spiritual body? Maybe you've never read this:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Could this be any more clear? The body we have now is "sown in corruption", "sown in dishonour", "sown in weakness", "sown a natural body" and when the resurrection of the dead occurs and when we're all changed then "it is raised in incorruption", "raised in glory", "raised in power" and "raised a spiritual body". So, Paul makes it very clear that the body we will have in the future is "a spiritual body". Why would you deny this?
 

Timtofly

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The works are the man-made things on the earth. The natural things on the earth like trees, grass, and so on, will be burned up as well. This shouldn't be hard to understand.

That's not taught anywhere in scripture. Instead, Paul taught that at the last trumpet we will be changed and then will have an incorruptible, immortal spiritual body. The words incorruptible and immortal mean the same thing, so it's ludicrous to suggest that people will first have an incorruptible body and then later have an immortal body.

Are you denying that when the dead in Christ are resurrected and all of us are changed we will have a spiritual body? Maybe you've never read this:

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Could this be any more clear? The body we have now is "sown in corruption", "sown in dishonour", "sown in weakness", "sown a natural body" and when the resurrection of the dead occurs and when we're all changed then "it is raised in incorruption", "raised in glory", "raised in power" and "raised a spiritual body". So, Paul makes it very clear that the body we will have in the future is "a spiritual body". Why would you deny this?

The body is the body. The soul is the soul. The spirit is the spirit. Can it be more clear than that? This "spiritual body" is permanent and incorruptible. The spirit is a light that wraps around the spiritual body.

You do away with this body, soul, and spirit and invent your own imagined concoction.

On the mount of Transfiguration, Jesus showed us the spirit is a light that shines as bright as the sun. The same light blinded Paul on the road to Damascus. The spirit is not a body. It is called a robe of white for the symbolism. The body is still a permanent incorruptible physical body. The soul is still the soul.

When Adam died physically and spiritually, he no longer had the light as a covering, thus he was naked without a spirit. He body was no longer permanent and incorruptible. His body was now dead and corruptible, a mortal. We are born into Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Until the soul leaves this body, it cannot reside in God's permanent incorruptible physical body. Until the Second Coming, the church in Paradise is waiting for the spirit, glorification, the complete restoration to the image of God as a son of God.
 

Keraz

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Thank you. We are told that in the end times there will be people from every tribe, race, nation and language, who will be the Lord's faithful people.
They will speak a new language. Zephaniah 3:9

However, now for you to communicate with others here, the English language is necessary.