The Seperation of the Sheep & Goats - Matthew 25:31-46

[VictoryinJesus]

No clue.

1 Corinthians 5:5

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God gave the purpose to Adam at Gen 1:28 Vicky, I know you are aware of this.

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

see I could suggest that mankind is void and without form until the Spirit moves …where the potter can take an earthen vessel marred (dishonor) in his hands and make another pot (unto honor). If that is up for debate then how: James 4:8-10 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Psalm 42:7-8 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me. [8] Yet the Lord will command his lovingkindness in the daytime, and in the night his song shall be with me, and my prayer unto the God of my life.

I thought you were referring to where God told Adam to be fruitful and to multiply…yet why does Christs fruit exceed in Glory and unless I’m mistaken it is Christs fruit we hope to see multiplied and film the earth. The only way I can see “love, peace, joy” “brotherly love” fill the earth is when God fills man with His Spirit. Why by one man death entered, by the second that being Christ whose fruit fulfills what God said “be fruit and multiply” where the Father said “this is My Son in whom I am well pleased?

 

[Taken]

1 Corinthians 5:5

And?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

see I could suggest that mankind is void and without form until the Spirit moves …where the potter can take an earthen vessel marred (dishonor) in his hands and make another pot (unto honor). If that is up for debate then how: James 4:8-10 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. [9] Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. [10] Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Psalm 42:7-8 Deep calleth unto deep at the noise of thy waterspouts: all thy waves and thy billows are gone over me. [8] Yet the Lord will command his lovingkindness in the daytime, and in the night his song shall be with me, and my prayer unto the God of my life.

I thought you were referring to where God told Adam to be fruitful and to multiply…yet why does Christs fruit exceed in Glory and unless I’m mistaken it is Christs fruit we hope to see multiplied and film the earth. The only way I can see “love, peace, joy” “brotherly love” fill the earth is when God fills man with His Spirit. Why by one man death entered, by the second that being Christ whose fruit fulfills what God said “be fruit and multiply” where the Father said “this is My Son in whom I am well pleased?

Although Adam and Jesus was equal, what made Jesus superior is he remained faithful maam. The only human in history to never have sinned. You are correct, however I and the Bible phrase it a different way, God breathed His Holy Spirit into Adam, and he became a living soul. Same thing as what you said, just a bit more understandable I believe

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And?

I’m sorry. I misunderstood when you said “no clue” …I didn’t know if you meant that I left out quote reference.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

however I and the Bible phrase it a different way, God breathed His Holy Spirit into Adam, and he became a living soul.

there seems to be a distinction between Adam who was made a living soul.
And Christ who was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

How big of an distinction between “made a living soul” and “made a quickening (life giving) spirit”? I guess it depends on how big the distinction is between in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

 

[Robert Gwin]

there seems to be a distinction between Adam who was made a living soul.
And Christ who was made a quickening (life-giving) spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

How big of an distinction between “made a living soul” and “made a quickening (life giving) spirit”? I guess it depends on how big the distinction is between in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22

Actually both Adams were humans, Jesus however was resurrected a spirit as he returned to his previous life, he did not sacrifice that life, rather his life as a human, a corresponding ransom for what Adam lost.

 

[Davy]

Looks like you have jumped the gun there Davy!

The phrase "New Heaven"has absolutely nothing to do with God's Heavenly realm but the New Governance on Earth during the Millennial age.

No, that is an Amillennialist idea.

God's new heavens and a new earth does not start until AFTER... Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the nations with His elect, which only begins at His future coming. That new heavens and a new earth time comes ONLY after the devil, hell, and the wicked are destroyed in the future "lake of fire". The wicked will NOT see God's new heavens and a new earth timing.

Here is an example of God referring to Israel as Heaven & Earth.

Isaiah 1:2 & Deuteronomy 32:1.

In Deuteronomy 32:1 Moses addresses Israel with the following expression: “Listen, you heavens, and I will speak; hear, you earth, the words of my mouth.” Isaiah does the same in Isaiah 1:2: “Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth!”

Heavens is imagery for the ruling peoples
Earth is imagery for the common peoples

That is a bad, bad, terrible... interpretation. Has absolutely nothing to do with God's future eternity of a new heavens and a new earth being PRIOR to the "thousand years" of Revelation 20. Deuteronomy 31 is Moses' testimony against ancient Israel because of their rebellion. Moses commanded their evil deeds being written in book for posterity as proof of their rebellious nature.

Likewise the Book of Isaiah has many things to say from God about old Israel's rebellion and the events of of the end of this world and things of the world to come.

NONE of that ever suggests the "thousand years" of Revelation 20 about Christ's future reign when He returns being false.

 

[face2face]

No, that is an Amillennialist idea.

God's new heavens and a new earth does not start until AFTER... Christ's future "thousand years" reign over the nations with His elect, which only begins at His future coming. That new heavens and a new earth time comes ONLY after the devil, hell, and the wicked are destroyed in the future "lake of fire". The wicked will NOT see God's new heavens and a new earth timing.

You have no source! Also you have no idea of the true nature of the devil, hell and the wicked.

Next time use Scripture and not your own understanding.

That is a bad, bad, terrible... interpretation.

It's clear you don't understand the imagery being conveyed or do you understand the Heaven and Earth dispensations.

Unlearn what you think you know and relearn what is true.

Why dont you define why its a New Heaven and a New Earth? What makes it New?

Your failure to accept Israel under Moses as being a Heaven and Earth period further shows you do not understand the New Heaven / Earth period.

F2F

 

[Davy]

You have no source!

You don't know what you're talking about. My source is God's Holy Writ.

The events of Revelation 20 are referred to by the Old Testament prophets in many Scriptures, especially in Isaiah. Just because Lord Jesus waited until He gave His Revelation in the latter days that shows a short "thousand years" reign by Him and His elect over all nations doesn't detract from all the prophetic events given through His Old Testament prophets about that future time.

And one of the EASIEST ways to know man's doctrine of Amillennialism is FALSE, is how God's Word shows the wicked ARE NOT DESTROYED yet after Christ's future return, AS WRITTEN in the Zechariah 14 Chapter, and associated Old Testament Scriptures like it.

(Brethren in Christ: man's doctrines of Amillennialism are all over the place. They all have in common the false belief that on the day of Christ's future return, all the wicked are then destroyed, and God's new heavens and a new earth eternity then begins, with no 1,000 year reign over the wicked like Revelation 20 reveals, and like the Old Testament prophets also revealed the wicked are not destroyed yet on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns in the future.

Other versions of that Amillennialist false doctrine try to substitute today's time since Lord Jesus died on the cross as a type Millennium, when there is no such idea written like that in God's Word either. Some men back in the 2nd century A.D. decided that since Jesus died on the cross, and The Gospel began to be accepted on large scales in Asia Minor and Europe, then it must mean Christ's Kingdom came back then, and those have since believed that THIS WORLD, today, is Christ's Kingdom, and that it is 'their' job to conquer all nations and people to make them believe on Jesus. So how's that working out for them per today's world and evils? Just a quick look at the wars, and divisions, and corruptness happening in today's time shows the delusions by those men on that false doctrine.)

 

[face2face]

(Brethren in Christ: They all have in common the false belief that on the day of Christ's future return, all the wicked are then destroyed, and God's new heavens and a new earth eternity then begins, with no 1,000 year reign over the wicked like Revelation 20 reveals, and like the Old Testament prophets also revealed the wicked are not destroyed yet on that "day of the Lord" when Jesus returns in the future.

Davy, I believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth! I don't believe all the wicked will be destroyed at his coming...many will be but not all!
I'm not sure what you about but you have jumped all over my posts with no evidence to these accusations.

F2F

 

[Davy]

Davy, I believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth! I don't believe all the wicked will be destroyed at his coming...many will be but not all!
I'm not sure what you about but you have jumped all over my posts with no evidence to these accusations.

F2F

Either you're trying to deceive, or you are completely ignorant of what your statement below means...

face2face said:
"The phrase "New Heaven"has absolutely nothing to do with God's Heavenly realm but the New Governance on Earth during the Millennial age."


No, the New Heaven (and a new earth) idea does NOT happen during the Millennial reign of Christ that begins at His future return. There will be earth changes then, but still not the 'new heavens and a new earth' time. The wicked will not see the 'new heavens and a new earth' time, they will have already gone in the "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years", AS WRITTEN.

Instead, thinking the 'new heavens and a new earth' happens at Christ's return is a Amillennialist Theory that is not written in God's Word.

 

[face2face]

Either you're trying to deceive, or you are completely ignorant of what your statement below means...

Only one here is being ignorant and its not me!

face2face said:
"The phrase "New Heaven"has absolutely nothing to do with God's Heavenly realm but the New Governance on Earth during the Millennial age."

No, the New Heaven (and a new earth) idea does NOT happen during the Millennial reign of Christ that begins at His future return. There will be earth changes then, but still not the 'new heavens and a new earth' time. The wicked will not see the 'new heavens and a new earth' time, they will have already gone in the "lake of fire" at the end of the "thousand years", AS WRITTEN.

Instead, thinking the 'new heavens and a new earth' happens at Christ's return is a Amillennialist Theory that is not written in God's Word.

I'll step it out nice and clear so you don't stumble!

As clearly proven the "first heaven" was the Israel of God, or Kingdom of God, as established under the Mosaic covenant (Deuteronomy 32:1 Isaiah 1:2).

This "1st Heavens came to an end in the destruction of the Jewish State in A.D. 70 as per 2 Peter 3:7.

The second "heaven and earth" will be established at Christ's coming with the setting up of the Kingdom of God, the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel (Acts of the Apostles 1:6; 2 Peter 3:13).

The third "heaven and earth" will be at the close of Christ's reign on earth, when a perfected kingdom will be delivered to the Father that He might be all and in all (1 Corinthians 15:24).

1. Kingdom of Israel rule by sinful Kings
2. Kingdom of God ruled by His Son the righteous King
3. All in all - God dwells with men, sin and death removed

The Apostle Paul was taken into a vision of the third Heaven period in 2 Corinthians 12:2

Note the language of this "new heaven and new earth" or the "third heaven" referred to by Paul in relation to his vision of future glory (2 Corinthians 12:2).

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago (whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows) was caught up to the third heaven. And I know that this man (whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows) 12:4 was caught up into paradise and heard things too sacred to be put into words, things that a person is not permitted to speak.

It makes me laugh when I hear Christians talk about there being different levels in Heaven - so funny!!!

In your response I am not interested in any special pleading on your part - just show me the evidence as I have done for you - your posts lack substance and referring to whole chapters like Revelation 20 is woeful!

Take the time and show your understanding.

Mine fits the story of the Bible but lets see yours shall we?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Cont...

1 Thessalonians 4:15

Did you ever notice how Paul makes no mention of the judgement in 1 Thessalonians 4? I love how context proves truth... and here the Apostle's theme is focused on comfort because some mourned their dead brothers & sisters (1 Thessalonians 4:13) and he sets out to show the glories and happiness for both dead and living at the return of Christ as a source of comfort and consolation — 1 Thessalonians 4:18.

Order of events

1. The living saints will not precede the dead.
2. Christ will return with a "shout" or command that will awaken the dead.
3. He will come with the authority of the Archangel to forgive or condemn, to invite in preparing a Kingdom on Earth, or banish.
4. The dead raised, he will gather the living with them into a place of judgement.

TBC...

 

[Davy]

Only one here is being ignorant and its not me!

If you claim the 'new heavens and a new earth' timing has already begun, then that is to be ignorant of The Word of God, because nowhere does God's Word imply that happened for Jesus' 1st coming to die on the cross.

I'll step it out nice and clear so you don't stumble!

You shouldn't act so cocky, since it's obvious you are the one stumbling at God's Word.

As clearly proven the "first heaven" was the Israel of God, or Kingdom of God, as established under the Mosaic covenant (Deuteronomy 32:1 Isaiah 1:2).

This "1st Heavens came to an end in the destruction of the Jewish State in A.D. 70 as per 2 Peter 3:7.

What a bunch of man-made malarkey! Nothing written in God's Word about any such thing as that. If you're trying to talk about the 3 world earth ages that Apostle Peter taught, then the 1st world earth age was when Satan followed God, and was perfect in his ways before he rebelled. God created that 1st world earth age at Genesis 1:1. This present world is the 2nd world earth age we are still in, that began at Genesis 1:2 and has been placed in bondage to corruption. And the 3rd world earth age is God's future Eternity, and is yet to come, and won't begin until after... Christ's future return and His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 with His elect, and after the wicked, hell, and the devil are destroyed.

 

[face2face]

If you claim the 'new heavens and a new earth' timing has already begun

I showed you numerous times the "Heaven & Earth" periods are describing the different phases of the Kingdom of God on earth.

1. Kingdom of Israel rule by sinful Kings
2. Kingdom of God ruled by His Son the righteous King (2nd coming)
3. All in all - God dwells with men, sin and death removed (End of the Millennium age)

Christ has NOT ascended David's throne! Luke 1:32 cmp Acts of the Apostles 1:6

So the second Heaven and Earth period is yet to start and concludes when Christ hands the Kingdom back to his father.

So before you jump to any more assumptions, which you need to admit you have done multiple times now try explaining to me who Peter is referring to in 2 Peter 3:7 and why?

Firstly acknowledge the consistent language being adopted where he is drawing it from?

re the cocky remark "ditto" ;)

F2F

 

[Davy]

I showed you numerous times the "Heaven & Earth" periods are describing the different phases of the Kingdom of God on earth.

The future time of the 'NEW heavens and a new earth' is about God's future Eternity to be established upon this earth AFTER Jesus' future return and 1,000 years reign. The latter Isaiah chapters point much to that future time.


There are THREE WORLD EARTH AGES written of in God's Word:

1. "the world that then was" -- 2 Peter 3:5-6, the world prior to today's world when Satan followed God, but then rebelled in coveting God's Throne (Ezekiel 28). God created that first perfect world earth age at Genesis 1:1, His original creation not in bondage.

2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now" -- 2 Peter 3: 7, today's world, after the overthrow by Satan, with God having made this present world starting at Genesis 1:2 forward, putting this 2nd one in bondage to corruption (Romans 8:18-25).

3. "new heavens and a new earth" -- 2 Peter 3:13, the future world to come, God's future Eternity, after... Christ's future coming and 1,000 years reign of Revelation 20.

And that... is not what you are following.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Sometimes I feel many reading these posts find it difficult to comprehend because they are to long or overly wordy. I'm going to try and keep them as concise as possible.

Matthew 25:31 “Son of Man comes” Jesus is coming as the appointed judge of human kind John 5:26-27 & Daniel 7:13-14

John 5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he has granted the Son to have life in himself, and he has granted the Son authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

Not because he is God (false belief) or because he is the Son of God (true belief) but because he is the Son of Man

Q. Why does John & Matthew use the title "Son of Man" in relation to Christs coming & judgement?

You bring up important points, Jesus responsibilities as a man that He has fulfilled and will yet fill on His throne. I see that His title as the Son of Man, was stating a physical fact, being human, born of of virgin, His physical nature. His spiritual nature, Son of God was also a fact and also an essential part of who He is.. I AM from above, the Light, the Way, the Bread of Life, the Resurrection, the Doorway, the Truth, the Alpha and Omega, the Good Shepherd, etc.. So we recognize Him as the God/man, having this dual nature, having responsibilities as a man and also as God.
As for the 12 thrones promised, I always wondered if those were secifically promised to the 12 apostles with another 12 promised to OT kings and/or prophets, since John, in Revelation, did see 24 thrones in heaven (Rev.4:4). ?

 

[face2face]

The future time of the 'NEW heavens and a new earth' is about God's future Eternity to be established upon this earth AFTER Jesus' future return and 1,000 years reign. The latter Isaiah chapters point much to that future time.


There are THREE WORLD EARTH AGES written of in God's Word:

1. "the world that then was" -- 2 Peter 3:5-6, the world prior to today's world when Satan followed God, but then rebelled in coveting God's Throne (Ezekiel 28). God created that first perfect world earth age at Genesis 1:1, His original creation not in bondage.

2. "the heavens and the earth, which are now" -- 2 Peter 3: 7, today's world, after the overthrow by Satan, with God having made this present world starting at Genesis 1:2 forward, putting this 2nd one in bondage to corruption (Romans 8:18-25).

3. "new heavens and a new earth" -- 2 Peter 3:13, the future world to come, God's future Eternity, after... Christ's future coming and 1,000 years reign of Revelation 20.

And that... is not what you are following.

We only differ slightly Davy on point 1. because you ignore the Kingdom of Israel, as being the foundation for the Kingdom of God on Earth and the language used of Israel as being the first Heavens and Earth!

Daniel 2 & 7 speaks of the "Kingdoms of men" being replaced with the "Kingdom of God"...its this transition which relates to the three Heaven and Earth phases.

Note the change in governance which is the symbol of Heavens (rulers) and earth (peoples) as per Deuteronomy 32:1; Isaiah 65:17; Daniel 12:3

I've colour coded each for ease of reference.

1. Kingdom of Israel ruled by sinful Kings
2. Kingdom of God ruled by His Son the righteous King (2nd coming)
3. All in all - God dwells with men, sin and death removed (End of the Millennium age)

I omitted to note on point 3 (but implied) as you rightly state is the New Heaven and Earth period. (however you must note the use of New in Isaiah 65:17!)

Isaiah 65:17 For look, I am ready to create new heavens and a new earth! The former things will not be remembered (Heaven & Earth); no one will think about them anymore. 65:18 But be happy and rejoice forevermore over what I am about to create! For look, I am ready to create Jerusalem to be a source of joy, and her people to be a source of happiness. 65:19 •Jerusalem will bring me joy, and my •people will bring me happiness. The sound of weeping or cries of sorrow will never be heard in her again.

This prophecy is spoken to the current Heaven & Earth i.e Kingdom of Israel and pointing forward to the Millennium age where Christ will bring in a New Heaven and Earth age, of course as per Revelation 21 we note even this Heaven and Earth period will be replaced by the eternal New Heaven & Earth whereby God will be all and all and death and sin removed from the earth.

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first (former) heaven and earth had ceased to exist, and the sea existed no more. 21:2 And I saw the holy city—the new Jerusalem—descending out of heaven from God, made ready like a bride adorned for her husband

The key to understanding the 3 phases is seen in how the former Heaven and Earth period is replaced with the next.

1. Israel Kings Period ----> 2. Christ as King period - 1000 years -------> 3. God as "all in all" The Eternal New Heaven and Earth

2 & 3 are both New to the previous Kingdom age.

I've chosen to ignore your references to fallen angel theology as this shows an incorrect understanding of the apocalypse. That's a digression for now which we can deal with later if you want.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You bring up important points, Jesus responsibilities as a man that He has fulfilled and will yet fill on His throne. I see that His title as the Son of Man, was stating a physical fact, being human, born of of virgin, His physical nature. His spiritual nature, Son of God was also a fact and also an essential part of who He is.. I AM from above, the Light, the Way, the Bread of Life, the Resurrection, the Doorway, the Truth, the Alpha and Omega, the Good Shepherd, etc.. So we recognize Him as the God/man, having this dual nature, having responsibilities as a man and also as God.
As for the 12 thrones promised, I always wondered if those were secifically promised to the 12 apostles with another 12 promised to OT kings and/or prophets, since John, in Revelation, did see 24 thrones in heaven (Rev.4:4). ?

Dual nature is not taught in the Bible - Christ was fully man. Paul states in every respect or in all things human! Hebrews 2:14-17